321 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

motomotogirl wrote...

True, which is why I said I support choice 

But it IS more grating to assume female characters should dress in a feminine manner than putting them in the same clothes as male characters. At least the latter is a noble attempt at gender deviance.

It's no more grating to assume that female characters should dress in a feminine manner than it is to assume that female characters should dress in a masculine or 'androgynous' manner.

[CuriousArtemis]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Ha, you and me both! I have not worn a skirt in 6 years.


On a serious note, I liked Tallis's.

 They didn't want to dress FemHawke differently because feminists (LIKE MYSELF) would have been annoyed and called them out on gender conformity. I would have been PO'ed to have my Hawke show up in a dress. Like, really? Oh really, BW. Just because my Hawke has boobs and a va-jay-jay, she has to wear a dress and slippers and ribbons in her hair? Really.

I'm all for options, though. Again, so long as male Hawke gets the same option 

I'm a feminist as well, but I choose to dress in a feminine way. That's what feminism is about - choices. One can wear heels, lipstick, and dresses and still  be all for women's rights.

Restricting us to tomboy clothing is no more fair than restricting us to dresses. So, truthfully, all Bioware did in DA2 was push us from one extreme to another. Still unfair. 

True, which is why I said I support choice 

But it IS more grating to assume female characters should dress in a feminine manner than putting them in the same clothes as male characters. At least the latter is a noble attempt at gender deviance.

I disagree...

I feel it's grating either way. 

I picked out a female character in order to play the game in a feminine way. I assumed that'd be the whole point in choosing a female. If they're going to take a woman and dress her up like a man and every person she meets treats her like a man/talks to her like a man - then what's the point in picking a woman? Might as well just play a man. 

Well, I shouldn't have said "grating" because that references my own personal feelings. I should have said antiquated, old-fashioned, subconsciously conforming to socially constructed gender difference, etc. 

Wait, does this mean that since I don't wear dresses I'm in danger of turning into a man 

[tmp7704]

If i remember right the dev responses, female Hawke didn't get a dress in that situation because it didn't play nice with the animations. As such, i wouldn't expect much improvement in this area -- new engine or not, pants are far easier to handle and generate way less geometry clipping. And you know how much the gamers love to **** about these.

[upsettingshorts]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

I disagree...

I feel it's grating either way. 

I picked out a female character in order to play the game in a feminine way. I assumed that'd be the whole point in choosing a female. If they're going to take a woman and dress her up like a man and every person she meets treats her like a man/talks to her like a man - then what's the point in picking a woman? Might as well just play a man. 

Clearly you are not familiar with the fabulous Meredanders.

[CuriousArtemis]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Clearly you are not familiar with the fabulous Meredanders.

That is one fabulous looking fellow! 

[Nashimura]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

I disagree...

I feel it's grating either way. 

I picked out a female character in order to play the game in a feminine way. I assumed that'd be the whole point in choosing a female. If they're going to take a woman and dress her up like a man and every person she meets treats her like a man/talks to her like a man - then what's the point in picking a woman? Might as well just play a man. 

Clearly you are not familiar with the fabulous Meredanders.

That.......might take a while to leave my mind. 

[FINE HERE]

motomotogirl wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Ha, you and me both! I have not worn a skirt in 6 years.


On a serious note, I liked Tallis's.

 They didn't want to dress FemHawke differently because feminists (LIKE MYSELF) would have been annoyed and called them out on gender conformity. I would have been PO'ed to have my Hawke show up in a dress. Like, really? Oh really, BW. Just because my Hawke has boobs and a va-jay-jay, she has to wear a dress and slippers and ribbons in her hair? Really.

I'm all for options, though. Again, so long as male Hawke gets the same option 

I'm a feminist as well, but I choose to dress in a feminine way. That's what feminism is about - choices. One can wear heels, lipstick, and dresses and still  be all for women's rights.

Restricting us to tomboy clothing is no more fair than restricting us to dresses. So, truthfully, all Bioware did in DA2 was push us from one extreme to another. Still unfair. 

True, which is why I said I support choice 

But it IS more grating to assume female characters should dress in a feminine manner than putting them in the same clothes as male characters. At least the latter is a noble attempt at gender deviance.

I disagree...

I feel it's grating either way. 

I picked out a female character in order to play the game in a feminine way. I assumed that'd be the whole point in choosing a female. If they're going to take a woman and dress her up like a man and every person she meets treats her like a man/talks to her like a man - then what's the point in picking a woman? Might as well just play a man. 

Well, I shouldn't have said "grating" because that references my own personal feelings. I should have said antiquated, old-fashioned, subconsciously conforming to socially constructed gender difference, etc. 

Wait, does this mean that since I don't wear dresses I'm in danger of turning into a man 

Well excuse me for wanting to be antiquated, old-fashioned and subconsciously conformting to socially constructed gender differences. And way to be rude.

Is it so wrong to want to have a character treated like a lady or at least recognized for being female?

[CuriousArtemis]

tmp7704 wrote...

If i remember right the dev responses, female Hawke didn't get a dress in that situation because it didn't play nice with the animations. As such, i wouldn't expect much improvement in this area -- new engine or not, pants are far easier to handle and generate way less geometry clipping. And you know how much the gamers love to **** about these.

Killing two birds with one stone -- defying socially constructed gender norms and avoiding crappy animation! 

[panamakira]

Agreed we need better clothing when the PC is taking care of diplomatic affairs. Although to be honest, ever since DA:O the "royal/formal" clothing have always been atrocious~ Don't even get me started on Mage robes.....

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

FINE HERE wrote...

Is it so wrong to want to have a character treated like a lady or at least recognized for being female?

And you can't be recognized as female wearing pants?

The game acknowledges Hawke's gender quite a few times.

Woops, said I was leaving. Couldn't stay away!

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 27 octobre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Harle Cerulean]

FINE HERE wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Ha, you and me both! I have not worn a skirt in 6 years.


On a serious note, I liked Tallis's.

 They didn't want to dress FemHawke differently because feminists (LIKE MYSELF) would have been annoyed and called them out on gender conformity. I would have been PO'ed to have my Hawke show up in a dress. Like, really? Oh really, BW. Just because my Hawke has boobs and a va-jay-jay, she has to wear a dress and slippers and ribbons in her hair? Really.

I'm all for options, though. Again, so long as male Hawke gets the same option 

I'm a feminist as well, but I choose to dress in a feminine way. That's what feminism is about - choices. One can wear heels, lipstick, and dresses and still  be all for women's rights.

Restricting us to tomboy clothing is no more fair than restricting us to dresses. So, truthfully, all Bioware did in DA2 was push us from one extreme to another. Still unfair. 

True, which is why I said I support choice 

But it IS more grating to assume female characters should dress in a feminine manner than putting them in the same clothes as male characters. At least the latter is a noble attempt at gender deviance.

I disagree...

I feel it's grating either way. 

I picked out a female character in order to play the game in a feminine way. I assumed that'd be the whole point in choosing a female. If they're going to take a woman and dress her up like a man and every person she meets treats her like a man/talks to her like a man - then what's the point in picking a woman? Might as well just play a man. 

Well, I shouldn't have said "grating" because that references my own personal feelings. I should have said antiquated, old-fashioned, subconsciously conforming to socially constructed gender difference, etc. 

Wait, does this mean that since I don't wear dresses I'm in danger of turning into a man 

Well excuse me for wanting to be antiquated, old-fashioned and subconsciously conformting to socially constructed gender differences. And way to be rude.

Is it so wrong to want to have a character treated like a lady or at least recognized for being female?

The problem would be that every female Hawke would be subjected to that, and not everyone wants that for their female Hawke.  I would have a problem with my f!Hawke being stuffed into skirts and treated differently just because she has breasts.  It's not wrong to want either of those things - the problem is that the game is going to treat every single female Hawke the same way, so it's going to make one of us unhappy.

[CuriousArtemis]

FINE HERE wrote...

Well excuse me for wanting to be antiquated, old-fashioned and subconsciously conformting to socially constructed gender differences. And way to be rude.

Is it so wrong to want to have a character treated like a lady or at least recognized for being female?

I'm more snarky than rude. I don't mean to be rude. 

I wouldn't say wrong. But it IS an old-fashioned concept. When you realize, understand, or accept that there really are no major differences between men and women, it seems strange to want to continue to draw an imaginary line between the two genders. 

Women were treated like "ladies" by gentlemen in the nineteenth century, for example, because they were thought to be fundamentally different from men. They were spiritually superior, of a more delicate mind and sentiment, and intellectually and physically inferior. So this was a difference that society believed in and recognized via behavior, speech, dress, etc. 

So to still adhere to that social code is in a sense referencing that antiquated way of thinking about the two genders.

But choice, choice is good. Give everyone a choice as to what to wear, and it's all good, isn't it? 

[FINE HERE]

Pseudocognition wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

Is it so wrong to want to have a character treated like a lady or at least recognized for being female?

And you can't be recognized as female wearing pants?

The game acknowledges Hawke's gender quite a few times.

Woops, said I was leaving. Couldn't stay away!

Eh, but not really all that much. You only get Bethanie/Carver calling you either brother or sister and a few lines randomly spread about. 

I was just disappointed I couldn't dress like a 'lady.' I wanted to wear a dress since my 'finery' was a robe... Instead, I got a pants and a vest. And while that may be other's preference, it wasn't mine, so I was disappointed.

To each their own, but I'd still prefer a dress.

[tmp7704]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Woops, said I was leaving. Couldn't stay away!

It's okay, Mereanders is known to have this effect on people

[Nashimura]

I dont fully agree with motomotogirl, but when she is the one not talking total nonsense its hard to care....

Modifié par Nashimura, 27 octobre 2012 - 06:55 .

[ImperatorMortis]

Ugh..

[CuriousArtemis]

Nashimura wrote...

I dont fully agree with motomotogirl, but when she is the only one not talking nonsense its hard to care....

lol You don't have to agree with me. This whole topic is based on opinion, anyway. [Plus healthy, scholarly debate is super fun.] I can't help being a nerd when it comes to gender and history and such. Impossible to keep my big mouth shut. I get stuck lecturing to freshmen every day about sentences and thesis statements, so when the BSN gives me a chance to stand on my soap box and talk about something I actually care about, I jump in it xD

[FINE HERE]

motomotogirl wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

Well excuse me for wanting to be antiquated, old-fashioned and subconsciously conformting to socially constructed gender differences. And way to be rude.

Is it so wrong to want to have a character treated like a lady or at least recognized for being female?

I'm more snarky than rude. I don't mean to be rude. 

I wouldn't say wrong. But it IS an old-fashioned concept. When you realize, understand, or accept that there really are no major differences between men and women, it seems strange to want to continue to draw an imaginary line between the two genders. 

Women were treated like "ladies" by gentlemen in the nineteenth century, for example, because they were thought to be fundamentally different from men. They were spiritually superior, of a more delicate mind and sentiment, and intellectually and physically inferior. So this was a difference that society believed in and recognized via behavior, speech, dress, etc. 

So to still adhere to that social code is in a sense referencing that antiquated way of thinking about the two genders.

But choice, choice is good. Give everyone a choice as to what to wear, and it's all good, isn't it? 

Okay, I tried to keep quiet, but this is urking me way too much.

There are differences between men and woman. Biological ones. We are not the same gender. There is a list of differences between us.

Does that make one gender better than the other? NO.
Does that mean both genders need to act in a certain stereotypical way? NO.
Does that mean that we should all act androgynous? NO.

Don't call my thought process outdated. That's rude. Women can look feminine, wear dresses and make up and still be as productive as men. Clothes have nothing to do with it. I can run in heels and a skirt no problem. My brain works when I put on a dress.

Okay, rant over. And sorry that you're the one I vent out on, Motomotogirl.

ON TOPIC:
This is a matter of choice, and Hawke's personality felt too set-in-stone for me to begin with, so the clothing being picked as well bothered me a little. If there's going to be this masquerade ball that everyone is talking about, then showing up in pants again would make me upset. A costume would be fun, too. The choice of a ball gown, nice pair of pants and shirt, or a sill costume would be nice.

Would it be deal breaking? No, but still... It'd be nice.

[Nashimura]

motomotogirl wrote...

Nashimura wrote...
I dont fully agree with motomotogirl, but when she is the only one not talking nonsense its hard to care....

lol You don't have to agree with me. This whole topic is based on opinion, anyway. [Plus healthy, scholarly debate is super fun.] I can't help being a nerd when it comes to gender and history and such. Impossible to keep my big mouth shut. I get stuck lecturing to freshmen every day about sentences and thesis statements, so when the BSN gives me a chance to stand on my soap box and talk about something I actually care about, I jump in it xD

Ur alright , I like how you express you opinions - I don't want to group in with people saying (In Pseudocognition's words...he said it so well) "Hawke isn't female unless the devs dress her to there standard of femininity?" 

Modifié par Nashimura, 27 octobre 2012 - 07:07 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Nashimura wrote...
 (In Pseudocognition's words...he said it so well) "Hawke isn't female unless the devs dress her to there standard of femininity?" 

*she

I must not be wearing my dress today!

[Nashimura]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Nashimura wrote...
 (In Pseudocognition's words...he said it so well) "Hawke isn't female unless the devs dress her to there standard of femininity?" 

*she

I must not be wearing my dress today!

Sorry  I gotta stop assuming based on avatar, twice ive made that mistake today....which is even more dumb considering im a man with a female avatar.

Modifié par Nashimura, 27 octobre 2012 - 07:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

Nashimura wrote...

Sorry  I gotta stop assuming based on avatar, twice ive made that mistake today....which is even more dumb considering im a man with a female avatar.

You are free to assume I am bacon.

[Nashimura]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

Sorry  I gotta stop assuming based on avatar, twice ive made that mistake today....which is even more dumb considering im a man with a female avatar.

You are free to assume I am bacon.

What? You're not?

[mesmerizedish]

FINE HERE wrote...

Okay, I tried to keep quiet, but this is urking me way too much.

There are differences between men and woman. Biological ones. We are not the same gender. There is a list of differences between us.

Does that make one gender better than the other? NO.
Does that mean both genders need to act in a certain stereotypical way? NO.
Does that mean that we should all act androgynous? NO.

Don't call my thought process outdated. That's rude. Women can look feminine, wear dresses and make up and still be as productive as men. Clothes have nothing to do with it. I can run in heels and a skirt no problem. My brain works when I put on a dress.

Okay, rant over. And sorry that you're the one I vent out on, Motomotogirl.

1) You're entirely wrong. That's not what gender means.
2) Calling your thinking outdated is not rude.
3) Your thinking *is* outdated.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Nashimura wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

Sorry  I gotta stop assuming based on avatar, twice ive made that mistake today....which is even more dumb considering im a man with a female avatar.

You are free to assume I am bacon.

What? You're not?

He's lying, he's just a skillet wearing a bacon dress.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 27 octobre 2012 - 07:38 .