380 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Zakuspec089 wrote...

and I don't understand how people think Liara was forced on you, you had the choice to ignore and not interact with her Anyways. *Shrugs.*

Really?

Are....

you...

sure?

Quoting myself again...

I can't really see why numbers 2 and 4 are bad. Liara, the asari Prothean expert, is part of the narrative when you go to retrieve major Prothean artifacts, the latter of which is found on her homeworld. 

And in both cases she doesn't do anything productive on the mission. Okay, she reminds Shepard that he needs to find the correct code to open the pod or you'll kill him but that's it. Thessia was just personal. We had the option to leave her on the Normandy for Noveria way back when. And yes, I will argue that Tali should not have been required for Rannoch either. Recall that these missions aren't the loyalty missions from ME2 where everyone gets a turn. 

Fair enough, even though I remember she figures out that it's a Prothean in the capsule and tells you how it's opened. 

Still, I don't see how these two examples are that big of a deal. They make sense. It probably also makes more sense to stop thinking of Liara as just another squadmate, and more as a character in the story, like Anderson, or Joker. 

She read her omni-tool. I believe it was EDI who discovered that the Protheans were Collectors so I think reading statistcal analysis of a being incased in a pod could have been transfered to really anyone.

That's exactly the problem though - she isn't treated as a character in a story like she should be. Sure - she gave us the Crucible but thats it. The buck stops there because we never see her actively contributing to it later on. LotSB we're made to think that she's going to have this major role and be this great Broker but that fell apart. We're told that she's being a major contributor but thats it. She herself is treated like just a squadmate after Mars. I mean, true, I can say that about Garrus post Palaven and Tali post Rannoch but they don't get the screentime and exposatory "Oh poor so and so" like Liara did. 

Essentially, we're simply TOLD that Liara is more important then we should believe. We shouldn't have to be told that she's important and all this. 

[Zakuspec089]

MACharlie1 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Zakuspec089 wrote...

and I don't understand how people think Liara was forced on you, you had the choice to ignore and not interact with her Anyways. *Shrugs.*

Really?

Are....

you...

sure?

Quoting myself again...

I can't really see why numbers 2 and 4 are bad. Liara, the asari Prothean expert, is part of the narrative when you go to retrieve major Prothean artifacts, the latter of which is found on her homeworld. 

And in both cases she doesn't do anything productive on the mission. Okay, she reminds Shepard that he needs to find the correct code to open the pod or you'll kill him but that's it. Thessia was just personal. We had the option to leave her on the Normandy for Noveria way back when. And yes, I will argue that Tali should not have been required for Rannoch either. Recall that these missions aren't the loyalty missions from ME2 where everyone gets a turn. 

Fair enough, even though I remember she figures out that it's a Prothean in the capsule and tells you how it's opened. 

Still, I don't see how these two examples are that big of a deal. They make sense. It probably also makes more sense to stop thinking of Liara as just another squadmate, and more as a character in the story, like Anderson, or Joker. 

She read her omni-tool. I believe it was EDI who discovered that the Protheans were Collectors so I think reading statistcal analysis of a being incased in a pod could have been transfered to really anyone.

That's exactly the problem though - she isn't treated as a character in a story like she should be. Sure - she gave us the Crucible but thats it. The buck stops there because we never see her actively contributing to it later on. LotSB we're made to think that she's going to have this major role and be this great Broker but that fell apart. We're told that she's being a major contributor but thats it. She herself is treated like just a squadmate after Mars. I mean, true, I can say that about Garrus post Palaven and Tali post Rannoch but they don't get the screentime and exposatory "Oh poor so and so" like Liara did. 

Essentially, we're simply TOLD that Liara is more important then we should believe. We shouldn't have to be told that she's important and all this. 

Actually Shepard knew that The Collectors were Prothean before Edi if you played Mass Effect 1. Liara though knew much more then we knew, they couldn't put everything in Mass Effect 1-3.

[Asch Lavigne]

I loved Liara in ME1, I even romanced her. In 2 I didn't like her character change and felt like the biggest **** in the world for dumping her after she was responsible for recovering my body. I may not like her as much anymore, or even as much as some of the other characters, but I have nothing against her. My main problem with her currently is that she is a terrible Shadow Broker. Which, as I understand it, is actually the writer's fault for delegating a lot of her activities to Traynor and EDI after the leak.

[mumba]

This thread went to sh*t really fast...

[MACharlie1]

Zakuspec089 wrote...

Actually Shepard knew that The Collectors were Prothean before Edi if you played Mass Effect 1. Liara though knew much more then we knew, they couldn't put everything in Mass Effect 1-3.

Ah no. Shepard didn't even know what a Collector was until ME2 on Freedom's Progress. And hence Shepards surprised "I thought the Protheans died 50,000 years ago!" when EDI makes the revelation. Furthermore, Liara herself states that Shepard knew as much about the Protheans as she did thanks to the Cipher from Feros. 

[Zakuspec089]

I were disappointed too about Liara changes and how she weren't in Mass Effect 2. I later got over it and realized why they kept her and the Original characters of Mass Effect one out. I were happy. I loved Liara story much more in Mass Effect 3 throughout the story I feel in love with The Characters and Shepard. I love Mass Effect it my favorite and beloved series better then Star Wars right now. I wished there were more work and they took more of their time.

[The Night Mammoth]

MACharlie1 wrote...
She read her omni-tool. I believe it was EDI who discovered that the Protheans were Collectors so I think reading statistcal analysis of a being incased in a pod could have been transfered to really anyone.

That's exactly the problem though - she isn't treated as a character in a story like she should be. Sure - she gave us the Crucible but thats it. The buck stops there because we never see her actively contributing to it later on. LotSB we're made to think that she's going to have this major role and be this great Broker but that fell apart. We're told that she's being a major contributor but thats it. She herself is treated like just a squadmate after Mars. I mean, true, I can say that about Garrus post Palaven and Tali post Rannoch but they don't get the screentime and exposatory "Oh poor so and so" like Liara did. 

Essentially, we're simply TOLD that Liara is more important then we should believe. We shouldn't have to be told that she's important and all this. 

Sorry, I have a problem with editing posts long after I click submit, so I clarafied and added to a lot of what I was saying. 

I certainly can't disagree with most of that, except really the part where you're saying she didn't contribute to it later on, which is false. We just don't see any of it, she simply tells you in conversation. 

I'll say again though that it seems less to do with Liara, and more to do with how the writer's used her. Blurry distinction, but important given the context. 

[Zakuspec089]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Zakuspec089 wrote...

Actually Shepard knew that The Collectors were Prothean before Edi if you played Mass Effect 1. Liara though knew much more then we knew, they couldn't put everything in Mass Effect 1-3.

Ah no. Shepard didn't even know what a Collector was until ME2 on Freedom's Progress. And hence Shepards surprised "I thought the Protheans died 50,000 years ago!" when EDI makes the revelation. Furthermore, Liara herself states that Shepard knew as much about the Protheans as she did thanks to the Cipher from Feros. 

Do you rememeber The Scanning things that side quest in Mass Effect 1? I don;t remmeber the scientists name but in Mass Effect 2 they sent Shepard a message telling Shepard that The Collectors are Prothean something like that if I'm remember correctly.

Modifié par Zakuspec089, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:20 .

[MACharlie1]

Zakuspec089 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Zakuspec089 wrote...

Actually Shepard knew that The Collectors were Prothean before Edi if you played Mass Effect 1. Liara though knew much more then we knew, they couldn't put everything in Mass Effect 1-3.

Ah no. Shepard didn't even know what a Collector was until ME2 on Freedom's Progress. And hence Shepards surprised "I thought the Protheans died 50,000 years ago!" when EDI makes the revelation. Furthermore, Liara herself states that Shepard knew as much about the Protheans as she did thanks to the Cipher from Feros. 

Do you rememeber The Scanning things that side quest in Mass Effect 1? I don;t remmeber the scientists name but in Mass Effect 2 they sent Shepard a message telling Shepard that The Collectors are Prothean something like that if I'm remember correctly.

Yes. And the scientist (Chorban) was referring to the Keepers being manufactured once by the same beings who created Sovreign. Unrelated to the Collectors. 

[Zazzerka]

Chorban. He finds out the the keepers aren't what they seem, but he doesn't mention Collectors or Protheans.

[MACharlie1]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
She read her omni-tool. I believe it was EDI who discovered that the Protheans were Collectors so I think reading statistcal analysis of a being incased in a pod could have been transfered to really anyone.

That's exactly the problem though - she isn't treated as a character in a story like she should be. Sure - she gave us the Crucible but thats it. The buck stops there because we never see her actively contributing to it later on. LotSB we're made to think that she's going to have this major role and be this great Broker but that fell apart. We're told that she's being a major contributor but thats it. She herself is treated like just a squadmate after Mars. I mean, true, I can say that about Garrus post Palaven and Tali post Rannoch but they don't get the screentime and exposatory "Oh poor so and so" like Liara did. 

Essentially, we're simply TOLD that Liara is more important then we should believe. We shouldn't have to be told that she's important and all this. 

Sorry, I have a problem with editing posts long after I click submit, so I clarafied and added to a lot of what I was saying. 

I certainly can't disagree with most of that, except really the part where you're saying she didn't contribute to it later on, which is false. We just don't see any of it, she simply tells you in conversation. 

I'll say again though that it seems less to do with Liara, and more to do with how the writer's used her. Blurry distinction, but important given the context. 

Yes! Exactly the problem. This is basic writing 101: show don't tell. 

And yes, it is a writing problem. But within the context of the game itself (Since all the problems boil down to writing problems) she was (and is) built up to be the great Shadow Broker and we on a consistent base hear but don't see it resulting in a poorly written character - a Mary Sue. And you can see in the scripts themselves that Liara was being written this way by her scene notes. 

[The Night Mammoth]

MACharlie1 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
She read her omni-tool. I believe it was EDI who discovered that the Protheans were Collectors so I think reading statistcal analysis of a being incased in a pod could have been transfered to really anyone.

That's exactly the problem though - she isn't treated as a character in a story like she should be. Sure - she gave us the Crucible but thats it. The buck stops there because we never see her actively contributing to it later on. LotSB we're made to think that she's going to have this major role and be this great Broker but that fell apart. We're told that she's being a major contributor but thats it. She herself is treated like just a squadmate after Mars. I mean, true, I can say that about Garrus post Palaven and Tali post Rannoch but they don't get the screentime and exposatory "Oh poor so and so" like Liara did. 

Essentially, we're simply TOLD that Liara is more important then we should believe. We shouldn't have to be told that she's important and all this. 

Sorry, I have a problem with editing posts long after I click submit, so I clarafied and added to a lot of what I was saying. 

I certainly can't disagree with most of that, except really the part where you're saying she didn't contribute to it later on, which is false. We just don't see any of it, she simply tells you in conversation. 

I'll say again though that it seems less to do with Liara, and more to do with how the writer's used her. Blurry distinction, but important given the context. 

Yes! Exactly the problem. This is basic writing 101: show don't tell. 

And yes, it is a writing problem. But within the context of the game itself (Since all the problems boil down to writing problems) she was (and is) built up to be the great Shadow Broker and we on a consistent base hear but don't see it resulting in a poorly written character - a Mary Sue. And you can see in the scripts themselves that Liara was being written this way by her scene notes. 

I'll agree. She is, in Layman's terms, a Mary Sue. 

Other than that, the only other problem is how much unwarranted attention she recieves for people who either don't like her, or don't romance her.

[spirosz]

Logan Cloud wrote...

You can't use "it's the internet" as an excuse. My sign-up date is from 2010. I've been here for 2 years. This place wasn't always like this.

Most of my friends could tell you the same thing. I don't know what happened, or how it happened, but this place has just... It's gotten awful.

I've been here since 2009, I know what you're talking about and you either weren't paying as much attention or you weren't paying as much attention, lol.  It has always been like this, some months worse than others.  It's gamers in general that have gotten worse rep over the years. 

[Zazzerka]

And it was so close to dying..

[spirosz]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

And it was so close to dying..

Had to reply tbh, different timezones.  

[Tootles FTW]

I love Garrus, dislike Tali, and like Liara. I didn't care for her too much in ME1, but the LotSB DLC really worked wonders for her character and I thought her ME3 interactions to be very sweet w/ an unromanced Shepard. I actually teared up during her farewell scene/mind-meld.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MACharlie1 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...
She read her omni-tool. I believe it was EDI who discovered that the Protheans were Collectors so I think reading statistcal analysis of a being incased in a pod could have been transfered to really anyone.

That's exactly the problem though - she isn't treated as a character in a story like she should be. Sure - she gave us the Crucible but thats it. The buck stops there because we never see her actively contributing to it later on. LotSB we're made to think that she's going to have this major role and be this great Broker but that fell apart. We're told that she's being a major contributor but thats it. She herself is treated like just a squadmate after Mars. I mean, true, I can say that about Garrus post Palaven and Tali post Rannoch but they don't get the screentime and exposatory "Oh poor so and so" like Liara did. 

Essentially, we're simply TOLD that Liara is more important then we should believe. We shouldn't have to be told that she's important and all this. 

Sorry, I have a problem with editing posts long after I click submit, so I clarafied and added to a lot of what I was saying. 

I certainly can't disagree with most of that, except really the part where you're saying she didn't contribute to it later on, which is false. We just don't see any of it, she simply tells you in conversation. 

I'll say again though that it seems less to do with Liara, and more to do with how the writer's used her. Blurry distinction, but important given the context. 

Yes! Exactly the problem. This is basic writing 101: show don't tell. 

And yes, it is a writing problem. But within the context of the game itself (Since all the problems boil down to writing problems) she was (and is) built up to be the great Shadow Broker and we on a consistent base hear but don't see it resulting in a poorly written character - a Mary Sue. And you can see in the scripts themselves that Liara was being written this way by her scene notes.

There was actually a side mission in the leaked script that dealt with Shepard having to help out defending a SB data transmitters (or something) that had been sabotaged  by Cerberus, Shepard would quickly have to repair and get them back up to speed as they provided vital intel and information to Alliance forces that without them would slowly get picked off one by one.

Such a mission would have been great as it would show Liara's SB assests being used up front instead of us just hearing about them, sadly the mission was cut.

[Seifer006]

MACharlie1 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Zakuspec089 wrote...

and I don't understand how people think Liara was forced on you, you had the choice to ignore and not interact with her Anyways. *Shrugs.*

Really?

Are....

you...

sure?

Quoting myself again...

Agreed.

[Seifer006]

xMellowhype wrote...

She's a terrible character..... Because she's incredibly bland.

Fix:

Agree...so much Agree

[Seifer006]

damn. I should've let it died.....

[The Night Mammoth]

Seifer006 wrote...

Fix:

Agree...so much Agree

Your heresy will stay your feet.


And you will be left behind.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 31 octobre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Seifer006]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

Fix:

Agree...so much Agree

Your heresy will stay your feet.


And you will be left behind.

?

k...

[The Night Mammoth]

Seifer006 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

Fix:

Agree...so much Agree

Your heresy will stay your feet.


And you will be left behind.

?

k...

It's a quote.


But from where? Hmmmm....

[tvman099]

**** you and go hack some terminals. I have personal vendettas to settle.

[Hadeedak]

Zakuspec089 wrote...

Honestly do most people prefer boring Human Romances then exotic Aliens or creatures? Honestly in Mass Effect there's only 4 Alien characters that are romancable they are Liara, Tali, Garrus and Thane. I wished there were more Alien romances, especially female Shepard. I would liked if there were more choices.

The other characters are majority of romances are humans. Liara is a Alien and she have a longer storyline and most interesting because she's a important character within Mass Effect. Liara's the Prothean expert as well. I wished we saw more of the Shadowbroker stuff and what she did in between before the Reapers came.

Garrus and Thane are pretty much the best. And Garrus has the best romance arc across the whole series (assuming you rolled romanceless in ME1). This is my opinion, so it's sheer, solid, fact. Undeniable. Nothing wrong with Kaidan, though.

I do like Jack and Liara for Jacob (awwwwwkward when 2 came out) Shep, the lone Liaramancer with the ability to grow facial hair.