380 réponses à ce sujet

[Comsky159]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Samara > Morinth > Liara

Liara was unique in ME1 and in ME2 going after the shadow broker was pretty badass but in ME3 she is way over the top and is forced into everything and for that i grew to hate her even though singularity is cool to use.

Ditto.

Liked her in ME1, was ambivalent in ME2, disliked her in ME3.

[Argolas]

Mass Effect without Liara

ME1: Shepard never understood the cifer and never found Ilos... too bad, Saren wins, the reapers take the citadel and then the galaxy.

ME2: Shepard's corpse is not recovered from the Shadow Broker, instead he sells it to the Collectors. The reapers do whatever they planned to do with Shepard, and since no one else could launch the suicide mission successfully, the human reaper is finished. We do not know what exactly Harbinger planned to do, but it certainly was important since he responds "We will find another way" when Shepard destroys the human reaper (which had never happened without Liara).

ME3: The blueprints of the crucible would not have been recovered, maybe not even found in the first place, without Liara. Shepard did not even know where to go after he/she entered the Mars archives... Then, Liara seems to be the only one who understood that the crucible is a weapon against the reapers, at least she is the one who explains that to everyone.
Later, we can assume that the crucible would not have been finished without the help of the Shadow Broker, at least it would have taken much longer.

So yeah, she should have earned some respect.

[giftfish]

Zakuspec089 wrote...

I think people should give more respect to Liara T'Soni because Liara helped out the team greatly in the Mass Effect Trilogy. Liara even protected and searched for Shepard. Liara were going to help bring Shepard back but Cerberous did when Liara rescued Shepard. We all know Liara, Garrus, Tali had the biggest fan basis then the other characters. It wasn't stupid Cerberous and Miranda that bought Shepard back. Liara T'Soni did. {It was in the comics, mentioned in game.} Sorry for the ranting but it true.

I been seeing alot of people hating on Liara T'Soni. I don't think people fully understands what Liara T'Soni and Shepard been through even when Shepard were dead. The players had the choice not to Romance or interact with Liara or the other characters. They had the option to ignore them. The character isn't forced on you unless you wanted it to be. I don't like seeing topics about Killing Off Liara or other known characters. Liara is the one who bought and rescued Shepard and cared for Shepard the most then the other characters. We all know BioWare were the ones who created the wonderful universe and series.

That what I just think, please stop hating on characters and of course Liara and please start respecting characters and thier fans. I know I'm a Liaramancer and we all have likes and dislikes, pinions but I respect characters and their fans. I know I dislike some of them as well. Thank you, please be respectful.

I wholeheartedly agree with the premise of respect in your post.  Fans around the BSN  are not necessarily known for their mature, kind, or respectful treatment of each other.  The atmosphere of these forums could certainly stand a large improvement on that front.  If you want a kinder, gentler crowd, head over to HTL.

At the same time, players are going to like characters they like, and dislike ones that they don't. There is nothing that can be done about that.  Liara isn't any more deserving of respect than any character in the series, regardless of her role.  It is in fact a result of her role that so many fans dislike her.  While you enjoy her role and see it appropriate, a player that doesn't like her is resentful of the additional screentime she receives in comprison to other squadmembers. That resentfulness is even more pungent when she takes on a role that would be better filled by Shepard's own LI.  And more pungent yet, when the player cannot do anything about it -- especially considering that the player can pretty much dictate the amount of interactions they have with every other squad member in the game.

Obviously Liara's role in the series is not "her" fault.  She's a fictitous character (and therefore not worthy of "respect", per se...at least in my book, lol).  It's the "fault" of the Mass Effect team.  They are the ones that determined the direction of her character in the game.  Unfortunately, because folks can't really yell at the devs in these forums, they take it out on the character and fans.  Not particularly mature, but certainly predictable and to an extent understandable.  I'm not condoning their behavior, I'm simply saying that it's easy to understand where they are coming from.  The best thing you can do is ignore the trolls.  You won't change their minds, so don't waste your time trying.

With that said, I don't have any particular love or hate for Liara.  I'm a bit indifferent.  I love the LotSB, but I  didn't love it b/c she was in it, I  loved it b/c it was a very well written and designed DLC.  However, when ME3 rolled around even I started to get peeved that she kept showing up everywhere, and my interactions with her kept feeling like I was being "pushed" in a romantic direction.  This was exceedingly annoying and hurtful to a certain extent, considering my Shep's LI was dying on the Citadel.  I couldn't do anything to make Liara bugger off, and I  certainly couldn't go and interact with my Shep's own LI, because he had basically zero conversation options.  Definitely, not cool.

[SNascimento]

Argolas wrote...

Mass Effect without Liara

ME1: Shepard never understood the cifer and never found Ilos... too bad, Saren wins, the reapers take the citadel and then the galaxy.

ME2: Shepard's corpse is not recovered from the Shadow Broker, instead he sells it to the Collectors. The reapers do whatever they planned to do with Shepard, and since no one else could launch the suicide mission successfully, the human reaper is finished. We do not know what exactly Harbinger planned to do, but it certainly was important since he responds "We will find another way" when Shepard destroys the human reaper (which had never happened without Liara).

ME3: The blueprints of the crucible would not have been recovered, maybe not even found in the first place, without Liara. Shepard did not even know where to go after he/she entered the Mars archives... Then, Liara seems to be the only one who understood that the crucible is a weapon against the reapers, at least she is the one who explains that to everyone.
Later, we can assume that the crucible would not have been finished without the help of the Shadow Broker, at least it would have taken much longer.

So yeah, she should have earned some respect.

.
This can be said about multiple characters.
.
But two points: in ME2 Cerberus was on the recovery of Shepards body. Liara was just an asset to them, if wasn't she, it would be someone else. Probably Miranda would have stopped Shepard's body from leaving Omega in the first place.
.
And in ME3, it makes sense Liara being the only one to know what the Crucible might be since she is the only one who actually saw it. I think didn't think very much before writing this one.
.
And actually... she being a terrible Shadow Broker delayed the deployment of the Crucible. She totally missed information pointing to the beacon on Thessia.
.
About the SB thing. I don't really believe Liara is the SB anymore. She just have access to the assets once belonging to the former SB.

[The Night Mammoth]

SNascimento wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Mass Effect without Liara

ME1: Shepard never understood the cifer and never found Ilos... too bad, Saren wins, the reapers take the citadel and then the galaxy.

ME2: Shepard's corpse is not recovered from the Shadow Broker, instead he sells it to the Collectors. The reapers do whatever they planned to do with Shepard, and since no one else could launch the suicide mission successfully, the human reaper is finished. We do not know what exactly Harbinger planned to do, but it certainly was important since he responds "We will find another way" when Shepard destroys the human reaper (which had never happened without Liara).

ME3: The blueprints of the crucible would not have been recovered, maybe not even found in the first place, without Liara. Shepard did not even know where to go after he/she entered the Mars archives... Then, Liara seems to be the only one who understood that the crucible is a weapon against the reapers, at least she is the one who explains that to everyone.
Later, we can assume that the crucible would not have been finished without the help of the Shadow Broker, at least it would have taken much longer.

So yeah, she should have earned some respect.

.
This can be said about multiple characters.
.
But two points: in ME2 Cerberus was on the recovery of Shepards body. Liara was just an asset to them, if wasn't she, it would be someone else. Probably Miranda would have stopped Shepard's body from leaving Omega in the first place.

Not exactly the most concrete of foundations to base and argument on, especially when the 'probably' part is an assumption, 
..

And actually... she being a terrible Shadow Broker delayed the deployment of the Crucible. She totally missed information pointing to the beacon on Thessia.

So did the last Shadow Broker, and the one before that. 

[Kia Purity]

Unfortunately, whoever wrote Liara in the games never respected her well enough, so I'm stuck with the bad feeling of her being a creepy stalker.

So, yeah, don't blame people for being uncomfortable/annoyed with her, blame the writer for the bad impressions.

[Edolix]

giftfish wrote...

Zakuspec089 wrote...

I think people should give more respect to Liara T'Soni because Liara helped out the team greatly in the Mass Effect Trilogy. Liara even protected and searched for Shepard. Liara were going to help bring Shepard back but Cerberous did when Liara rescued Shepard. We all know Liara, Garrus, Tali had the biggest fan basis then the other characters. It wasn't stupid Cerberous and Miranda that bought Shepard back. Liara T'Soni did. {It was in the comics, mentioned in game.} Sorry for the ranting but it true.

I been seeing alot of people hating on Liara T'Soni. I don't think people fully understands what Liara T'Soni and Shepard been through even when Shepard were dead. The players had the choice not to Romance or interact with Liara or the other characters. They had the option to ignore them. The character isn't forced on you unless you wanted it to be. I don't like seeing topics about Killing Off Liara or other known characters. Liara is the one who bought and rescued Shepard and cared for Shepard the most then the other characters. We all know BioWare were the ones who created the wonderful universe and series.

That what I just think, please stop hating on characters and of course Liara and please start respecting characters and thier fans. I know I'm a Liaramancer and we all have likes and dislikes, pinions but I respect characters and their fans. I know I dislike some of them as well. Thank you, please be respectful.

I wholeheartedly agree with the premise of respect in your post.  Fans around the BSN  are not necessarily known for their mature, kind, or respectful treatment of each other.  The atmosphere of these forums could certainly stand a large improvement on that front.  If you want a kinder, gentler crowd, head over to HTL.

At the same time, players are going to like characters they like, and dislike ones that they don't. There is nothing that can be done about that.  Liara isn't any more deserving of respect than any character in the series, regardless of her role.  It is in fact a result of her role that so many fans dislike her.  While you enjoy her role and see it appropriate, a player that doesn't like her is resentful of the additional screentime she receives in comprison to other squadmembers. That resentfulness is even more pungent when she takes on a role that would be better filled by Shepard's own LI.  And more pungent yet, when the player cannot do anything about it -- especially considering that the player can pretty much dictate the amount of interactions they have with every other squad member in the game.

Obviously Liara's role in the series is not "her" fault.  She's a fictitous character (and therefore not worthy of "respect", per se...at least in my book, lol).  It's the "fault" of the Mass Effect team.  They are the ones that determined the direction of her character in the game.  Unfortunately, because folks can't really yell at the devs in these forums, they take it out on the character and fans.  Not particularly mature, but certainly predictable and to an extent understandable.  I'm not condoning their behavior, I'm simply saying that it's easy to understand where they are coming from.  The best thing you can do is ignore the trolls.  You won't change their minds, so don't waste your time trying.

With that said, I don't have any particular love or hate for Liara.  I'm a bit indifferent.  I love the LotSB, but I  didn't love it b/c she was in it, I  loved it b/c it was a very well written and designed DLC.  However, when ME3 rolled around even I started to get peeved that she kept showing up everywhere, and my interactions with her kept feeling like I was being "pushed" in a romantic direction.  This was exceedingly annoying and hurtful to a certain extent, considering my Shep's LI was dying on the Citadel.  I couldn't do anything to make Liara bugger off, and I  certainly couldn't go and interact with my Shep's own LI, because he had basically zero conversation options.  Definitely, not cool.

You just hit the nail on the head, giftfish. Exactly what I would have said.

+1

[SNascimento]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Mass Effect without Liara

ME1: Shepard never understood the cifer and never found Ilos... too bad, Saren wins, the reapers take the citadel and then the galaxy.

ME2: Shepard's corpse is not recovered from the Shadow Broker, instead he sells it to the Collectors. The reapers do whatever they planned to do with Shepard, and since no one else could launch the suicide mission successfully, the human reaper is finished. We do not know what exactly Harbinger planned to do, but it certainly was important since he responds "We will find another way" when Shepard destroys the human reaper (which had never happened without Liara).

ME3: The blueprints of the crucible would not have been recovered, maybe not even found in the first place, without Liara. Shepard did not even know where to go after he/she entered the Mars archives... Then, Liara seems to be the only one who understood that the crucible is a weapon against the reapers, at least she is the one who explains that to everyone.
Later, we can assume that the crucible would not have been finished without the help of the Shadow Broker, at least it would have taken much longer.

So yeah, she should have earned some respect.

.
This can be said about multiple characters.
.
But two points: in ME2 Cerberus was on the recovery of Shepards body. Liara was just an asset to them, if wasn't she, it would be someone else. Probably Miranda would have stopped Shepard's body from leaving Omega in the first place.

Not exactly the most concrete of foundations to base and argument on, especially when the 'probably' part is an assumption, 
..

And actually... she being a terrible Shadow Broker delayed the deployment of the Crucible. She totally missed information pointing to the beacon on Thessia.

So did the last Shadow Broker, and the one before that. 

.
Cerberus would recover Shepard body regardless. That part is not an assumption, it's just common sense. 
.
And the other SB didn't have access to the intel Liara got on Mars. This is why it's a good paramenter to see how good an information broker she is. What she is capable of doing by herself.
.
She got the intel and only saw the Crucible. TIM on the other hand... 

[Arxduke]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

i hate liara...

Me too. I hated Tali as well. While Garrus is cool he's really overrated.

There were far more interesting characters in this trilogy than them.

You must have hated ME1's squad list.

lol. I guess he must of loved Kaidan (who doesn't:wub:)and Ashley.

[Davik Kang]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
Lol, I was about to start a thread saying the same thing.

Would you kill someone who brought you back to life out of friendship or love?
If say you would, then you're just trying to act like a badass over the Internet.

BTW, Liara always has a crush on you.

I kept getting cold feet with Shepard's various potential LI's, and everytime she decided who she wanted, the gate was closed.

I never even paid Liara much attention... until at the end, when Shepard was about to die, I thought back on all the things Liara had said and done.  

I remembered how Shepard had recued her in ME1. How Liara had then recovered her body in ME2.  How she'd then taken the time not just to build a device to record our efforts against the Reapers, but also another to record the story of Shepard, and she asks you how you'd like Shepard to be remembered.

It occured to me that throughout her extremely long life and archaeological career, Liara probably considered Shepard to be the most incredible thing she'd ever discovered.  Yet it was Shepard who had found her.

I remember realising, too late, that Liara was the one who truly loved Shepard.  And after all the awkward romance failures and no-go options, I'd missed the obvious one, the friend who'd always been there.

[Zardoc]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

i hate liara...

Me too. I hated Tali as well. While Garrus is cool he's really overrated.

There were far more interesting characters in this trilogy than them.

Physically impossible. Assuming you have a soul.

Argolas wrote...

Mass Effect without Liara

-snip-.

And just because I feel like doing it:

Mass Effect without Tali: Shepard never finds the evidence against Saren, never becomes a Spectre and can't hunt down and stop Saren, Sovereign opens the Relay, Reapers invade, everyone dies and none of the above you wrote ever happens to begin with.

Modifié par Zardoc, 27 octobre 2012 - 02:01 .

[N172]

Squeegee83 wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

It really has nothing to do with Liara. I think it has more to do with people who want a bajillion romance options and expect them all to be same level of fullfillment. I personally don't want that. Not to mention it's not even possible with mass effect.

I am a female player, who was left with nothing but lesbian romance options after Thane's death in ME3. If BioWare wanted to pull this stunt, then I think I should have gotten something better than a 5 liner romance.

Biowares mistake was to add 6 (out of 10 default squadmates) new romance options in Mass Effect 2, so they ended up with 9 romances to be continued in Mass Effect 3.

If they had only added Tali and Garrus in ME2 there whould have been 5, which is already a huge amount considering other BW-Games did not have more than 4 and they were going to add new ones in ME3 on top of the existing ones.

They also did one of those uncureable desease lovestorys with Thane, which resulted in Thanemancers demanding them to cancel it by offering a cure.

Short: They added too many, so quality suffered from quantitiy in some cases.
It is kind of ridiculous, but if there were less ME2-Options, only ME1-Options or even no other romance beside Liara available in the trilogy there whould have been much less or even no hate at all.

[Barquiel]

SNascimento wrote...


Cerberus would recover Shepard body regardless. That part is not an assumption, it's just common sense. 
.
And the other SB didn't have access to the intel Liara got on Mars. This is why it's a good paramenter to see how good an information broker she is. What she is capable of doing by herself.
.
She got the intel and only saw the Crucible. TIM on the other hand... 

Liara and Feron intercept the broker, and break off the deal between the SB and the collectors. They fail -> the collectors would get Shepards body and Cerberus could never reach it.

Liara knew to check the Mars archives because a beacon on Kahje gave her a lead. That has nothing to do with the beacon on Thessia. The Yahg Broker was absolutely clueless on this subject, he even helped the collectors.

[Restrider]

Davik Kang wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
Lol, I was about to start a thread saying the same thing.

Would you kill someone who brought you back to life out of friendship or love?
If say you would, then you're just trying to act like a badass over the Internet.

BTW, Liara always has a crush on you.

I kept getting cold feet with Shepard's various potential LI's, and everytime she decided who she wanted, the gate was closed.

I never even paid Liara much attention... until at the end, when Shepard was about to die, I thought back on all the things Liara had said and done.  

I remembered how Shepard had recued her in ME1. How Liara had then recovered her body in ME2.  How she'd then taken the time not just to build a device to record our efforts against the Reapers, but also another to record the story of Shepard, and she asks you how you'd like Shepard to be remembered.

It occured to me that throughout her extremely long life and archaeological career, Liara probably considered Shepard to be the most incredible thing she'd ever discovered.  Yet it was Shepard who had found her.

I remember realising, too late, that Liara was the one who truly loved Shepard.  And after all the awkward romance failures and no-go options, I'd missed the obvious one, the friend who'd always been there.

That is touching....

[spirosz]

Davik Kang wrote...

I remember realising, too late, that Liara was the one who truly loved Shepard.  

.... uh.  

[SNascimento]

Barquiel wrote...

SNascimento wrote...


Cerberus would recover Shepard body regardless. That part is not an assumption, it's just common sense. 
.
And the other SB didn't have access to the intel Liara got on Mars. This is why it's a good paramenter to see how good an information broker she is. What she is capable of doing by herself.
.
She got the intel and only saw the Crucible. TIM on the other hand... 

Liara and Feron intercept the broker, and break off the deal between the SB and the collectors. They fail -> the collectors would get Shepards body and Cerberus could never reach it.

Liara knew to check the Mars archives because a beacon on Kahje gave her a lead. That has nothing to do with the beacon on Thessia. The Yahg Broker was absolutely clueless on this subject, he even helped the collectors.

.
Liara was there because Cerberus wanted her there. Miranda talked to Liara and Feron when Shepard body was still in Omega. And the only reason why the body left the system in the first place, was because TIM said to Miranda let it go. Cerberus was on top of the situation the whole time. The point is not what would happen if Liara failed. The point is they would find someone else to do the job if Liara wasn't here.
.
The information recovered on Mars led TIM to the beacon of Thessia. Liara couldn't make the same connection. Clearly showing her skills as a SB are not tier 1. 
.
Don't you remember TIM making fun of Liara saying: "Or did you Shadow Broker miss that one?"

[dreamgazer]

No, my character is better than your character!

[Lawrence0294]

Argolas wrote...

Mass Effect without Liara

ME1: Shepard never understood the cifer and never found Ilos... too bad, Saren wins, the reapers take the citadel and then the galaxy.

ME2: Shepard's corpse is not recovered from the Shadow Broker, instead he sells it to the Collectors. The reapers do whatever they planned to do with Shepard, and since no one else could launch the suicide mission successfully, the human reaper is finished. We do not know what exactly Harbinger planned to do, but it certainly was important since he responds "We will find another way" when Shepard destroys the human reaper (which had never happened without Liara).

ME3: The blueprints of the crucible would not have been recovered, maybe not even found in the first place, without Liara. Shepard did not even know where to go after he/she entered the Mars archives... Then, Liara seems to be the only one who understood that the crucible is a weapon against the reapers, at least she is the one who explains that to everyone.
Later, we can assume that the crucible would not have been finished without the help of the Shadow Broker, at least it would have taken much longer.

So yeah, she should have earned some respect.

You can say this about other characters:

Tali: You wouldn't find the proofs to blame Saren, and the Repear fleet invades
Miranda: Shepard is not ressurected and the Collectors are not stopped
Mordin: they don't find the counter measures for the seaker swarms and you all die, the collectors are not stopped

etc, etc, etc

[Davik Kang]

Davik Kang wrote...
That is touching....

*Through streams of tears*  "I'm sorry Shepard"  *Guilt and failure run deep*

spirosz wrote...
.... uh.  

It's just headcanon, don't pay too much attention

[Barquiel]

SNascimento wrote...

Liara was there because Cerberus wanted her there. Miranda talked to Liara and Feron when Shepard body was still in Omega. And the only reason why the body left the system in the first place, was because TIM said to Miranda let it go. Cerberus was on top of the situation the whole time. The point is not what would happen if Liara failed. The point is they would find someone else to do the job if Liara wasn't here.
.
The information recovered on Mars led TIM to the beacon of Thessia. Liara couldn't make the same connection. Clearly showing her skills as a SB are not tier 1. 

And TIM obviously thought Liara and Feron have the best chance of success. That's why he contacted her.

Because Cerberus had much more time to study the data. TIMs sexbot erased most of the data on Mars, remember?


@ kratos0294
Nobody said Shepard can't "respect" more than one person

[Steelcan]

In response to OP.

NO. She is borderline incompetent at everything she does. Constantly flirts with Shepard even if she is dumped, numerous times. The comms specialist is better at finding out information than she is. She has no particular talents that outshine anybody.

PS. After Thessia she should have been tossed out the airlock

[Lawrence0294]

Barquiel wrote...



@ kratos0294
Nobody said Shepard can't "respect" more than one person

Faire enough 

[Steelcan]

spirosz wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

I remember realising, too late, that Liara was the one who truly loved Shepard.  

.... uh.  

. That is dumbest thing ever, of all time

[Sir Topham Hat]

Steelcan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

I remember realising, too late, that Liara was the one who truly loved Shepard.  

.... uh.  

. That is dumbest thing ever, of all time

It is silly, but if I remember correctly, in the Extended Cut evac scene she mouths the words, "I love you" as she's being dragged away.
I just like to think she's muttering "Olive juice."

[Steelcan]

Sir Topham Hat wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...
I remember realising, too late, that Liara was the one who truly loved Shepard.  

.... uh.  

. That is dumbest thing ever, of all time

It is silly, but if I remember correctly, in the Extended Cut evac scene she mouths the words, "I love you" as she's being dragged away.
I just like to think she's muttering "Olive juice."

. Miranda can die if you break up with her.