19 réponses à ce sujet

[Lurockia]

I'm just curious about this. I've never ran an entire playthrough with a Mage Hawke so forgive me if this question has been stated before.

I'm going to assume that everyone and their next door neighbors know that Hawke is an apostate after becoming Champion towards the end of ACT II. So how is it that they're allowed to remain free? As far as I know, no one is really an exception to the rule so how does that work.

Even the Comte de Lancets weren't allowed to keep their mage child and they are a particularly wealthy and well known family as far as I can tell. Same goes for Isolde's son Conner in Dragon Age: Origins.

So is there an explanation for this of any sort? I could just go ahead and replay the game as a mage to see for myself, but I would rather avoid doing so as it would be rather lengthy and would be for the sole purpose of answering only one question. Especially considering I have only just beaten it again a few days ago.

Modifié par Lurockia, 27 octobre 2012 - 07:22 .

[BCL]

I finished as a Mage last weekend. I played as a "lawful and likable" guy, so the impression I had was that since Hawke was the City Champion Meredith wouldn't bother me too much. I think that in Act 3 Meredith even says she doesn't like Hawke, but that Mage Hawke is harmless and useful, so that's why Hawke hasn't been rounded up. It also seems like the city is having a very hard time finding all the apostate Mages anyway, so Meredith is just keeping the Templers busy looking for them rather than risk a war with an extremely powerful (and well-liked and currently harmless) Hawke.  

[jcoultas]

I played through as a mage loading in a human mage warden who was Morrigans lover and who completed the ritual with her. I also did the golems of Am Garak DLC and Witch Hunt, and my warden followed Morrigan into the mirror to remain with his love. Anyway, I played a Female Hawke Mage and learned that the Hawke family was related to the Hero of Fereldon. Hawke's mothers' cousins child is the human mage warden. Also, I sided with the templars throughout the game, so Meredith seemed to actually like me, but in the end I sided with the mages because Meredith had gone too far, and I spared Anders and tried to fight to protect the mages. As a result, in the end cinematic, Cassandra said that Hawke was someone that both the templars and the mages could respect.

[Lurockia]

jcoultas wrote...

As a result, in the end cinematic, Cassandra said that Hawke was someone that both the templars and the mages could respect.

That's actually interesting! I had no idea that both factions could equally respect Hawke. I had always figured that it was either one or the other. Never both. I'd have to look into that sometime should I ever play again.

Modifié par Lurockia, 28 octobre 2012 - 01:44 .

[jcoultas]

Lurockia wrote...

jcoultas wrote...

As a result, in the end cinematic, Cassandra said that Hawke was someone that both the templars and the mages could respect.

That's actually interesting! I had no idea that both factions could respect Hawke. I figured that it was either one or the other. Never both. I'd have to look into that sometime should I ever play again.

Well, it is possible, lol, I find it hard to always side with the templars, but in that one playthrough I did, except for in regard to to helping the half-dalish boy join the dalish elves and then go to Tevinter.  Everything else I sided with the templars while being polite to the mages and I got Meredith liking me even though I was a mage.  I wonder if I'm one of few people to notice that, lol.

[TEWR]

@oP: Not significantly. No one recognizes you're a Mage -- not even Cullen, whose life you save with magic -- and you can perform blood magic in front of Templars without getting called on it.

jcoultas wrote...

As a result, in the end cinematic, Cassandra said that Hawke was someone that both the templars and the mages could respect.

That's not possible. It's always one or the other. You can't get her to say you're respected by both factions. You must have a bug.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 octobre 2012 - 03:04 .

[jcoultas]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

@oP: Not significantly. No one recognizes you're a Mage -- not even Cullen, whose life you save with magic -- and you can perform blood magic in front of Templars without getting called on it.

jcoultas wrote...

As a result, in the end cinematic, Cassandra said that Hawke was someone that both the templars and the mages could respect.

That's not possible. It's always one or the other. You can't get her to say you're respected by both factions. You must have a bug.

I haven't been able to replicate it, but I haven't really tried to replicate it either, but it definitely said that they BOTH respected me.  I remember it because I thought it was cool and different.  It is possible, but apparently it's not easy to do.

[Knight of Dane]

But it's simply not possible jcoultas. It doesn't matter hwat class you are, in the end it is always the faction you support that favors you. I have played the game trhough many times with different stnadings and classes and it's simply not possible.

[jcoultas]

Knight of Dane wrote...

But it's simply not possible jcoultas. It doesn't matter hwat class you are, in the end it is always the faction you support that favors you. I have played the game trhough many times with different stnadings and classes and it's simply not possible.

It is possible because I did it.  I am not lying about that.  I sided with the templar throughout the game, and got Carvers frienship maxed out along with the other characters, and I did let the half-dalish guy join the dalish and then go to tevinter, but other then that I sided with the templars, and I thought I had spared Anders, but I just remembered that I romanced Sebastian and had a 'chaste marriage' with him, and while I sided with the mages, I did kill anders.

[Knight of Dane]

No it isn't.

[jcoultas]

Knight of Dane wrote...

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.  After Criminal Minds i'll see what is on and may get on the xbox and try to record it if I can find a save file right before i beat the game on that character

[Asch Lavigne]

To answer the original question... it barely changes a darn thing. A few lines here and there, that's it. You would think being a mage would have a huge impact on the story but it doesn't. It's a major disappointment.

[Lurockia]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

To answer the original question... it barely changes a darn thing. A few lines here and there, that's it. You would think being a mage would have a huge impact on the story but it doesn't. It's a major disappointment.

Pity.. I was hoping for perhaps extra content involving the Mage Underground or bribes to keep a mage character from being noticed. It doesn't make much sense for just one Apostate to be exempt from the rule. From a Rogue or Warrior point of view, I can more or less understand how your status can protect your mage companions from being noticed as a boon for having saved the city but as a mage yourself it just looks suspicious and holds no consistancy.

I suppose being free from the circle in itself could be considered a boon though. A special favor despite your apostate status for defeating the Qunari when no one else could.

Thanks for all the replies! I appreciate it.

Modifié par Lurockia, 28 octobre 2012 - 04:25 .

[Asch Lavigne]

Nah, it's more like incompetence. Basically the majority of the game ignores that you are a mage. You can shoot spells in front of Templars and they'll still spout the same lines as if you were a Warrior or Rogue. Meredith says something to you very late in the game about you being a mage though. Your party members know, and say things, everyone else in the game is apparently stupid.

[Knight of Dane]

Like arriving at the scene where Cullen is threatening Wilmond with Anders and Merrill, spray the place with magic and he doesn't notice

[Lurockia]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Like arriving at the scene where Cullen is threatening Wilmond with Anders and Merrill, spray the place with magic and he doesn't notice

Oh posh. That's because he convinced himself that he was probably just seeing things. All those Shades and Rage Demons were clearly playing tricks on his mind to make him believe that everyone around him was a potential mage. 
Those spellcasting effects were simply a trick of the mind. Duh.

Modifié par Lurockia, 28 octobre 2012 - 07:03 .

[LobselVith8]

Lurockia wrote...

I'm just curious about this. I've never ran an entire playthrough with a Mage Hawke so forgive me if this question has been stated before.

I'm going to assume that everyone and their next door neighbors know that Hawke is an apostate after becoming Champion towards the end of ACT II. So how is it that they're allowed to remain free? As far as I know, no one is really an exception to the rule so how does that work.

The general idea seems to be that Hawke uses his status as a noble to shield himself from the templars, although this isn't really explored in any real depth.

Lurockia wrote...

Even the Comte de Lancets weren't allowed to keep their mage child and they are a particularly wealthy and well known family as far as I can tell. Same goes for Isolde's son Conner in Dragon Age: Origins.

Which are issues that other people brought up as well. There are other problems as well. Considering that Malcolm was a known apostate (who fled Kirkwall with Leandra after the templars discovered the mercenary was a mage), the issue of Hawke going to Kirkwall as the son (or daughter) of a known apostate wasn't addressed; it was a scandal that Leandra fled with an apostate, so it wasn't a secret from anyone. Also, the children of mages are taken from the mother and belong to the Chantry, but this isn't a concern for Hawke and his (or her) sibling, either.

Lurockia wrote...

So is there an explanation for this of any sort? I could just go ahead and replay the game as a mage to see for myself, but I would rather avoid doing so as it would be rather lengthy and would be for the sole purpose of answering only one question. Especially considering I have only just beaten it again a few days ago.

Not really. Hawke's status as an apostate is not even reflected in the story as it should be. The writers admitted that there was supposed to be a plotline that was dropped in Act I, and that they should have done a better job of having reactivity for Hawke as an apostate. Sebastian never even acknowledges that Hawke is a mage living outside the Circle. There aren't many references - Fenris will confront Hawke about it, Hawke will address it to Feynriel to express that he understands what Feynriel is going through, Carver and Hawke can even have a conversation in front of Kerran about Hawke being an apostate (but the templar recruit doesn't seem to acknowledge it at all).

[throwmeaname]

I think everyone is forgetting the fact that Hawke has friends in high and low places.
Just think about it, Aveline has major influence on the guards, and her guards herself respect Hawke just as much. I'm sure that the guards of Kirkwall, whether they know of Hawke, would be more tolerant of his apostate title. This suggests that perhaps the city guards are indirectly protecting Hawke.
Along side Aveline, Varic also has major influence among the underworld thugs that are living in Kirkwall. There has been referrences in the game where Varric has pulled a few strings to avert Templar eyes from Anders that are prowling around Darktown. Whether Varic has connection from corrupt templars, guards, local thugs, the Coterie, or all of the above, was not specified. The fact that silvertongue Varic has the power over who goes where, may suggest that Varic is also protecting Hawke.

In addition, I think everyone also has to consider the context of Kirkwall post Blight. With so many people fleeing from the Blight and into Kirkwall, its safe to bet that there were too many Apostates to deal with and not enough Templars. But, Despite this, Meridith and Orsino seem to keep order in the city in the first two Act, allocating their limited resource in prioritizing only the most dangerous Apostates. With that in mind, Hawke, as a refugee, managed to dodge the Templars by staying low. And when the Templars happen to rush Gamlen's house in Lowtown, Hawke was already weeks gone to an expedition.

In act 2, Hawke gained the respect of the Qunari, which in turn caught the eyes of the Viscount. This is when Meridith realize that Hawke, now a known noble apostate, is an asset to the city and may be the only one who may diplomatically ease the tension of the Qunaris. With the Viscount vouching for Hawke, Meridith looked over Hawke as an apostate. 

It was not until Act 3, when Meridith acquired the Primordial Idol, is when **** hit the fan. Meridith started becoming crazy and the amount of Maleficars in Kirkwall substantially increased. Despite being the Viscount, minus the title, Meridith still see the use in Hawke and personally given Hawke Templar oriented jobs. Plus, Hawke became a very powerful person in Kirkwall, Meridith cannot touch him anymore because the entire Kirkwall nobles are now in debt to Hawke.

Although there were technical barriers in game, but with all that said, I think its justified as to how Hawke manage to not be thrown out of the circle.

Modifié par throwmeaname, 29 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

For the majority of the game the developers pretend you're a lot better at hiding than you really are. The mage thing slips into conversations here and there but only to replace lines that would ordinarily be addressed to other mages.

You can get into some pretty interesting conversations about it in Act 3. By this point you've kicked so much ass the Templars are too afraid to come for you and as Kirkwall's first open apostate you can really have it out with Meredith.

[Kenshen]

jcoultas wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

But it's simply not possible jcoultas. It doesn't matter hwat class you are, in the end it is always the faction you support that favors you. I have played the game trhough many times with different stnadings and classes and it's simply not possible.

It is possible because I did it.  I am not lying about that.  I sided with the templar throughout the game, and got Carvers frienship maxed out along with the other characters, and I did let the half-dalish guy join the dalish and then go to tevinter, but other then that I sided with the templars, and I thought I had spared Anders, but I just remembered that I romanced Sebastian and had a 'chaste marriage' with him, and while I sided with the mages, I did kill anders.

I too have gotten that ending so it is possible but could be a bug I suppose.