591 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

You guys really don't like to be heroes in your games do you? Do you find it fun to replay a game where there's no happy ending other than "And they all died or something"?

If it's a story well-told, then hell yes. I'm currently doing another playthrough of Dark Souls. I can't say there's anything in the game that constitutes conventional happiness. It's actually one of the most depressing settings I've encountered in a game.

Planescape: Torment, is the only rpg I've played where the unavoidable death of the protagonist worked.  It's probably the single greatest computer rpg ever, which probably explains it. 

Well, that and because pretty much the second person you talk to gives you your goal of finding a way to die...

[The Elder King]

M25105 wrote...

You guys really don't like to be heroes in your games do you? Do you find it fun to replay a game where there's no happy ending other than "And they all died or something"?

The Warden is still a hero if he chose US. Loghain returns to be a hero for Ferelden if the sacrifices himself. So yes, having a bittersweet/tragic ending doesn't exclude the choice for the player to be a hero.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

You guys really don't like to be heroes in your games do you? Do you find it fun to replay a game where there's no happy ending other than "And they all died or something"?

If it's a story well-told, then hell yes. I'm currently doing another playthrough of Dark Souls. I can't say there's anything in the game that constitutes conventional happiness. It's actually one of the most depressing settings I've encountered in a game.

Planescape: Torment, is the only rpg I've played where the unavoidable death of the protagonist worked.  It's probably the single greatest computer rpg ever, which probably explains it. 

Well, that and because pretty much the second person you talk to gives you your goal of finding a way to die...

It's been so long since I've played Planescape (yes, I'm terrible), which character is that? The first one I remember is Morte.

Although just to be clear on the Dark Souls point: it doesn't actually have an unavoidable death. I was just using that to illustrate that a game doesn't necessarily need happiness for me to enjoy it.

[Il Divo]

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

It's not like a person can do both...that would make too much sense.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

You guys really don't like to be heroes in your games do you? Do you find it fun to replay a game where there's no happy ending other than "And they all died or something"?

If it's a story well-told, then hell yes. I'm currently doing another playthrough of Dark Souls. I can't say there's anything in the game that constitutes conventional happiness. It's actually one of the most depressing settings I've encountered in a game.

Planescape: Torment, is the only rpg I've played where the unavoidable death of the protagonist worked.  It's probably the single greatest computer rpg ever, which probably explains it. 

Well, that and because pretty much the second person you talk to gives you your goal of finding a way to die...

It's been so long since I've played Planescape (yes, I'm terrible), which character is that? The first one I remember is Morte.

Although just to be clear on the Dark Souls point: it doesn't actually have an unavoidable death. I was just using that to illustrate that a game doesn't necessarily need happiness for me to enjoy it.

The spirit of Deionarra, past lover of The Nameless One

And yeah, the Witcher games don't have mandatory deaths either.  I still find them too dark for me.  Which is a shame because I can appreciate how well crafted they are.

[The Elder King]

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

If you play video game for having an happy ending, I recomment you watch Walt Disney films for a real happy ending.
Your opinion isn't objectively right. People play VG for different reasons and they like different type of endings.

Modifié par hhh89, 28 octobre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Ridwan]

Il Divo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

It's not like a person can do both...that would make too much sense.

Because Bioware is raking in the money in truck loads cause of people who only cares about the story, am I right?

[Pzykozis]

Il Divo wrote...
Although just to be clear on the Dark Souls point: it doesn't actually have an unavoidable death. I was just using that to illustrate that a game doesn't necessarily need happiness for me to enjoy it.

Also would be a point for me even when you complete it and "save" the world, the world is still going to end. Or on the other hand become "evil" and rule the world right until everyone dies.

Such a great ending and one that fits the story.

As for replaying games I find I do that more for mechanical or system likes than out of story, I'm not really one for making run throughs and altering my choices wildly, unless I do a comedy run through doing the most evil and twisted things, oh hai thurr isolde how about you knife your child to death theres a good woman.

I feel bad about never getting far in planescape but when your gameplay is just that bad even if your world is absolutley amazing (and it really is) I just can't soldier through it.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 28 octobre 2012 - 05:48 .

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

The spirit of Deionarra, past lover of The Nameless One

And yeah, the Witcher games don't have mandatory deaths either.  I still find them too dark for me.  Which is a shame because I can appreciate how well crafted they are.

Ah, see, you tricked me. Aren't there a few grave dudes you can talk to between Deionarra and Morte?.

Overall, I thought the Witcher 2 was fun, but it didn't quite wow me the way it did some others, particularly after the DA2 debacle.

[barbara2012]

Reading this post i was wondering....why a hero always should have a bittersweet/tragic ending ? this a boring cliche to me , we need a little more creativity here dont you think?

[Ridwan]

hhh89 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

If you play video game for having an happy ending, I recomment you watch Walt Disney films for a real happy ending.
Your opinion isn't objectively right. People play VG for different reasons and they like different type of endings.

Like I said, games should just have endings like they did in DA:O everyone wins, it doesn't cheapen the story for crying out loud. It's a videogame and some artistic masterpiece not meant to be enjoyed the masses.

[Il Divo]

M25105 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

It's not like a person can do both...that would make too much sense.

Because Bioware is raking in the money in truck loads cause of people who only cares about the story, am I right?

Well, considering the enormous outcry over the ME3 ending debacle, I'm inclined to say there's more than a few people who play Bioware games for the story and not just to kill stuff. Or do you think the reason why Bioware adds so many characters, dialogue, and world-shaking choices to their games is only so fans can just skip to the action?  That's something I can't do in a novel: play a part in crafting it. One reason why I play games.

Modifié par Il Divo, 28 octobre 2012 - 05:53 .

[Emzamination]

M25105 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

If you play video game for having an happy ending, I recomment you watch Walt Disney films for a real happy ending.
Your opinion isn't objectively right. People play VG for different reasons and they like different type of endings.

Like I said, games should just have endings like they did in DA:O everyone wins, it doesn't cheapen the story for crying out loud. It's a videogame and some artistic masterpiece not meant to be enjoyed the masses.

/Migraine

[Il Divo]

Pzykozis wrote...

Also would be a point for me even when you complete it and "save" the world, the world is still going to end. Or on the other hand become "evil" and rule the world right until everyone dies.

Such a great ending and one that fits the story.

I absolutely loved it. I finally managed to get around to the Artorias dlc, so I'm having alot of fun with that too. I missed that feeling of exploring the unknown.  

I feel bad about never getting far in planescape but when your gameplay is just that bad even if your world is absolutley amazing (and it really is) I just can't soldier through it.

I personally don't like 2.0 either and Vancian spell-casting even less, so that definitely was a chore for me. Thankfully I pumped most of my points into Intelligence and Wisdom, which really helps in getting past alot of combat encounters without a fight, and gives some interesting dialogue too. But I can definitely understand your sentiment. That's why I don't like Baldur's Gate 1, a gameplay system I dislike, but it doesn't have the epic narrative to compensate for it.

Modifié par Il Divo, 28 octobre 2012 - 05:58 .

[The Elder King]

M25105 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

If you guys play video games cause of the story I recommend you visit a library for a real story.

If you play video game for having an happy ending, I recomment you watch Walt Disney films for a real happy ending.
Your opinion isn't objectively right. People play VG for different reasons and they like different type of endings.

Like I said, games should just have endings like they did in DA:O everyone wins, it doesn't cheapen the story for crying out loud. It's a videogame and some artistic masterpiece not meant to be enjoyed the masses.

I don't have problems with having different endings (and I'd prefer to have a well-made happy ending then a crappy-made bittersweet endings, even if I prefer the latter). But from the post you quoted is seems that you're saying that people that play video games for the story should read books instead. Without considering that the people who might play VG for the story might want happy endings instead.

[Lennard Testarossa]

M25105 wrote...
Like I said, games should just have endings like they did in DA:O everyone wins, it doesn't cheapen the story for crying out loud. It's a videogame and some artistic masterpiece not meant to be enjoyed the masses.

1. Apparently, I'm not part of everybody.
2. To say that I do not want a happy ending is incorrect. I want an interesting and believable story. If the story warrants a happy ending, fine. A happy ending once in a while does not bother me. What does bother me is that happy endings are the norm and often completely unbelievable. To set up an almost hopeless situation and have it resolved without anyone relevant losing their life is ridiculous.
3. Bad and shallow writing are in no way an intrinsic property of video games. There is no reason why a video game can't be just as well-written as a great book or movie.

[Ridwan]

I think it's become pretty evident that reading from this forum that many of the posters here only care about romances, their players choices and the story. Any thread involving actual gameplay changes never go beyond 3 pages at the most.

You guys expect a ton from Bioware, and then you wonder why other games like Skyrim sell 10 million plus, but DA can't break the 4 million mark.

[WhiteThunder]

M25105 wrote...

I think it's become pretty evident that reading from this forum that many of the posters here only care about romances, their players choices and the story. Any thread involving actual gameplay changes never go beyond 3 pages at the most.

You guys expect a ton from Bioware, and then you wonder why other games like Skyrim sell 10 million plus, but DA can't break the 4 million mark.

Says the dude who has spent 3 pages complaining about how his Shepard didn't get a happy ending...

Modifié par WhiteThunder, 28 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Medhia Nox]

I don't mind losing - but I will never accept an NPC overshadowing me again.

If you wanted Dragon Age 2 to be about the Mage/Templar debate - you should have put me in the role of Anders.

Bioware should have given ME the choice to blow up the Chantry or to risk a great deal more by taking a higher road.

[Allan Schumacher]

iakus wrote...

It's not a matter of "choose the bad ending.  It's a matter of "choose your ending" the one that works based on how you have been playing out your character..

It is though.  I'm not going to pick a subpar ending if I have the choice right there to pick a better one.  I can rationalize making a tough choice that isn't necessarily ideal among other difficult choices.  If one of the choices is clearly better, it's sabotaging for my character to pick anything but that choice.  Especially if I'm playing a heroic character trying to save as many as I can.

[Pedrak]

Personally, if the DA3 ending will have some CLOSURE and will amount to more than a 1-minute cutscene, whether bittersweet, happy or dark, it will already be a cause for major celebration.

[Ridwan]

WhiteThunder wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I think it's become pretty evident that reading from this forum that many of the posters here only care about romances, their players choices and the story. Any thread involving actual gameplay changes never go beyond 3 pages at the most.

You guys expect a ton from Bioware, and then you wonder why other games like Skyrim sell 10 million plus, but DA can't break the 4 million mark.

Says the dude who has spent 3 pages complaining about how his Shepard didn't get a happy ending...

Yup, cause replaying it was so much fun when you know it all ends up in crap. Got newsflash for you, I like replaying games it makes me feel like I spent my money well.

[Farbautisonn]

Well as long as they have a ninja that eats cereal the story cant be all bad?

(Trace elements of sarcasm may occur).

[Allan Schumacher]

M25105 wrote...

You guys really don't like to be heroes in your games do you? Do you find it fun to replay a game where there's no happy ending other than "And they all died or something"?

Yes.  In many cases I find the heroism accented when sacrifice is made.

I have no problems replaying a good game knowing that my character dies (or ultimately something less than rosy) happens at the end.  Nor do I consider it "not winning" the game.

Planescape: Torment condemns me to the Blood War if I'm a good guy, and I love being a good guy in that game.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 28 octobre 2012 - 06:32 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Allan Schumacher: I TOTALLY disagree with you.

The greatest example was the quest with Hawke's mother.

When I first played it - there are two events where you can either encourage or discourage your mother from getting out there and dating. I believed that because I had encouraged her - that the Kirkwall killer had grabbed her.

I believed that it was my choices - all good intentions - that led to her demise.

And as I sat there at my desk watching the events unfold I was actually deeply impacted. I had played the role o fthe loving son who just wanted his mom to be happy - and then, I was facing her killer.

I was amazed at the maturity of the story - how sometimes good intentions can lead to even the worst results. How I was trying to be the good guy - and how my character's naivety doomed - even if only in part - my mother.

Then - I discovered that there's no way to save her - that the illusion of choice was utterly thrown away - and I was so livid at the game that there was nothing that could be done to salvage DA 2 (even before I knew about Anders - which threw me into even a larger five minute 1st world problem fit)

By the time Mr. Gaider stated that they removed the ability to save her and that the event plays out no matter what you do... I was just really bummed and felt like an opportunity was thrown away.

Who CARES about the people who would have simply reloaded. LLet them. They paid good money - they should be able to craft a craftable story.

But for those who wanted to see where our choices took us - we were shortchanged.

Anyway - that's just my take.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 28 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .