64 réponses à ce sujet

[Drew Hawke]

 Hello everyone,

I have a simple question whit which I find the answer elludes me. 
I love dragon age, I've read the books and comics and have played the games. 

However cannon keeps being an issue, and I was wondering how we are suppose to approach this. 

I know some of the books are suppose to be their own thing seperate from the games and if my game cannon doesn't match up I don't cont them. 
Then with some of the stories not matching up in save imports; mostly between origins and awakening.
so with dragon age 3 coming out and it somehow not using save imports I'm wondering if we are just suppose to abandon everything up till da3 or how are we suppose to bring this all together. 

I only worry because this can make or break a series for me. I would love to hear others opinions on this matter.

thank you,
TheEllimist:)

Modifié par Drew Hawke, 28 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[Palipride47]

The best way (imo) to look at it is this:

The books, comics, etc. are quasi-canon.

This means that external events that are not directly dependent on PC actions can exists (i.e. even if you did not recruit Sten, he can be Arishok. Rhys, Evangeline, Lord Seeker Lambert will still exist as people)

I think they will avoid retconning too much, but it may be inevitable, since so many writing bits were set and left Bioware trapped.

People will get an answer for "dead" Leliana (an explanation for why she isn't dead). Anders (though he was retconned for a lot of people) will stay dead if you kill him. The spirit may reappear, but Anders from DA2 is a corpse.

Your origin slides are not considered canon (i.e. Orzammar doesn't have a Circle of Magi, Cullen isn't the Kinght Commander in Fereldan's Tower, etc)

That doesn't mean, however, that your choice of doing the ritual, or making Alistair king vs. killing him are not accounted for. Those are accounted for. As is your decision in Nature of the Beast, or who became King. It s moreso that they don't box themselves in completely, writing wise (so they can, i.e. send Cullen to Kirkwall)

Modifié par Palipride47, 27 octobre 2012 - 07:35 .

[upsettingshorts]

It's kind of clumsy, but I like to think of the books and comics as "David Gaider's playthrough of Dragon Age."

In some ways they'll be the same, in some ways they'll be different, but in all the ways they are different they might as well be, just to pick a poster above me, Palipride47's playthrough.

[goofyomnivore]

I think the books will end up being canon. The comics at most might get codex entries, or small nods throughout the game. But how/what occurred in them will be left up to you to decide if they really happened. Although if *comic spoiler incoming* Maric happens to be alive that is a big deal to be stuck in an alternate universe.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

strive wrote...

I think the books will end up being canon. The comics at most might get codex entries, or small nods throughout the game. But how/what occurred in them will be left up to you to decide if they really happened. Although if *comic spoiler incoming* Maric happens to be alive that is a big deal to be stuck in an alternate universe.

You think this based on what?

[fchopin]

I think differently, i don't want to know what is in the comic books.

Bioware should create a new forum for the comics as it has nothing to do with the game as far as i am concerned.

[Palipride47]

fchopin wrote...

I think differently, i don't want to know what is in the comic books.

Bioware should create a new forum for the comics as it has nothing to do with the game as far as i am concerned.

Neither do the books (in terms of direct influence), but one of Awakening's main antagonists is directly pulled from the book. DAA is a continuation of "The Calling," essentially. 

Not saying it is right, but those "alt" media will play into the game, in a way that attempts to be minimally intrusive (in their eyes) 

Hard to tell them not to, it is "their" story

Modifié par Palipride47, 27 octobre 2012 - 08:49 .

[Nashimura]

It would be nice if there was a different forum for it, im half way through Asunder and already know Wynn dies from here, i dont really blame anyone since i throw around origin spoilers, just wish they were better signposted at times.

[Palipride47]

Nashimura wrote...

It would be nice if there was a different forum for it, im half way through Asunder and already know Wynn dies from here, i dont really blame anyone since i throw around origin spoilers, just wish they were better signposted at times.

GAH, sorry!
To be honest, I also learned the synopses of all the books and comics by being on here. Read them anyway, and they were decent. Didn't stop me from weeping like a baby at certain parts, to say the least.

Everyone kinda assumes that if you are on the DA3 forum, you've played both games and read the other stuff (maybe even watched the movies) 

But I'm still hearing about alt material I never knew existed.

I do worry about that though, essentially some gamers being unnesscarily confused because they didn't read Asunder or watch Dawn of the Seeker, even if they played both games and all the DLC

Modifié par Palipride47, 27 octobre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Nashimura]

Palipride47 wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

It would be nice if there was a different forum for it, im half way through Asunder and already know Wynn dies from here, i dont really blame anyone since i throw around origin spoilers, just wish they were better signposted at times.

GAH, sorry!
In all fairness, I learned the synopses of all the books and comics by being on here. Read them anyway, and they were decent.

Everyone kinda assumes that if you are on the DA3 forum, you've played both games and read the other stuff (maybe even watched the movies) 

I'm still finding out about alt material I never knew existed. 

It wasnt you who spoiled it  Its why i dont blame anyone, i know its a risk coming here....

[CrazyRah]

I see the comics and the books as an alternative "playthrough" that doesn't necessarily happen. I think shorts put it in the best way when saying it's like "David Gaiders playthrough". For me it's just extra goodies that's optional

[goofyomnivore]

You think this based on what?

Uhh my own opinion? I didn't say it was fact. The OP asked for our opinions? But if you want me to elaborate the first two books are canon. I don't think it is ridiculous to assume the third may end up canon as well. As for the comics it is my own assumption. They could just tie up the stories within the comics and kill/write off characters involved in them. But I imagine some of the events will carry over into the games timeline.

Modifié par strive, 27 octobre 2012 - 11:30 .

[Terrorize69]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's kind of clumsy, but I like to think of the books and comics as "David Gaider's playthrough of Dragon Age."

In some ways they'll be the same, in some ways they'll be different, but in all the ways they are different they might as well be, just to pick a poster above me, Palipride47's playthrough.

This, the comics etc are DGs head canon, it's just he has the right to publish and sell his

You can do it too, with fanfiction.. just you can't sell it... well you can but you may get into a bit of trouble

[mousestalker]

Only the Qunari could possibly have 'over all cannon'. No one else has gunpowder in Thedas. Even then, despite their size and strength, the artillery would likely be too heavy for them to function.

Modifié par mousestalker, 27 octobre 2012 - 11:47 .

[Aolbain]

mousestalker wrote...

Only the Qunari could possibly have 'over all cannon'. No one else has gunpowder in Thedas. Even then, despite their size and strength, the artillery would likely be too heavy for them to function.

Ha!

[Drew Hawke]

Thank you all, this actually helped a lot.
Sorry if I spoiled anything,I was trying to be intentionally vague.
I just wish they had done with dragon what did with mass effect in regard to the books. Where they followed characters you couldn't affect or had little effect on them; and then just be vague about what the pc was doing.
Don't get me wrong i respect that it is their ip and they have every right to creat and explore it as they see fit. I just wish they would say here is what's cannon and here is what we did for fun.

Thank you,
TheEllimist

[David Gaider]

First off, it's "canon". A cannon is a weapon that fires cannonballs, while a canon is a collected body of written work. This often gets confused with canon being something that is established between games, as in the "real" story that overrides whatever choices you made in the last one. They are not the same thing.

The novels and comics contribute to Dragon Age canon. As I just mentioned in another thread, the events depicted may also happen in your personal version of the story-- but only if they work in context. Anything introduced from those stories into future games would need to be done on the assumption someone didn't read them, so you're not required to. They exist as independent tales, perhaps exploring choices in the game which you may not have taken.

If you're not interested in learning more about what might have been, then feel free to ignore them. Our feelings will not be hurt. We will, however, continue to write such ancillary stories... and, if they exist in the future and not the past, they will continue to have to choose a particular version of events since they cannot alter themselves to suit your choices in the game. All such versions are equally valid, and do not dictate the "right" way to play your game.

[Drew Hawke]

I apologize for my typo; I wrote this from my iPhone and auto correct is hard to catch sometimes.
I meant no offense; I greatly enjoy all of the work of the bioware team. I eagerly await all your games.

I was simply wondering on if there was a specific way your team had in mind for us to follow the overall story or if you were leaving it open to each player to decide how best to incorporate each piece.

I thank you for your informing us, and for your hard work.

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's kind of clumsy, but I like to think of the books and comics as "David Gaider's playthrough of Dragon Age."

That's an excellent way to put it.

[Realmzmaster]

The different media is not something new. Nor is it new that gamers and others start bringing events from the other mediums and saying it will be canon in the games. D & D went through the same events given all the books, comics etc. What Mr. Gaider writes adds to the Dragon Age universe. The other mediums require a set story. That is why Alistair is King. Sten is the Arishok etc.

It does not bear on the choices made in your playthrough. Will it have some effect in the future is up to Bioware and Mr. Gaider as they weave the story in the games or it may have no effect at all.

Whether Bioware will set up canon in the game for certain events will be up to them. Some choices may have to be retcon otherwise the stories may paint themselves into inescapable corners.

Right now each medium is separate from the other. Will they converge at some point is left to Bioware and Mr. Gaider.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:47 .

[Icesong]

David Gaider wrote...

First off, it's "canon". A cannon is a weapon that fires cannonballs, while a canon is a collected body of written work. This often gets confused with canon being something that is established between games, as in the "real" story that overrides whatever choices you made in the last one. They are not the same thing.

There's no confusion and they are the same thing. Words evolve and have multiple meanings that can change depending on the context. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that though for some reason I have to.

[David Gaider]

Icesong wrote...
There's no confusion and they are the same thing. Words evolve and have multiple meanings that can change depending on the context. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that though for some reason I have to.

I know the difference. You don't need to explain it to me. Not everyone else is aware there is a difference, however, as one can tell just from reading the posts that pop up on the topic. So you are incorrect in saying "there's no confusion" just as you're incorrect in saying "they are the same thing". They are the same word, but they do not have the same meaning.

[CaptainBlackGold]

David Gaider wrote...

First off, it's "canon". A cannon is a weapon that fires cannonballs, while a canon is a collected body of written work. This often gets confused with canon being something that is established between games, as in the "real" story that overrides whatever choices you made in the last one. They are not the same thing...

Not to be snarky or dissrespectful, but I have never seen that definition of "canon" used in that way before.

The word means something like "measuring stick" and and has traditionally been used of "accepted body of laws" in a church or "accepted list of books that constitute the Bible." (Websters).

The key term here is "accepted" or "approved." It is not just a collected body of work - it is that the collected body is approved in the sense that anything outside of them is not necessarily true, accurate, etc.

Again, not trying to be insulting or condescending or anything; but I do not think the above distinction is accurate. By extension, you could use the term to refer to the "canon" of say Robert Howard and Conan as opposed to what other writers may have done with the original character - but even here, the implication that Howard's accounts take precedence over what others may have written. It is not just the list of his books, but the content in them.

If something is "canon" than by every definition of the word I have ever read, then it means something like "This is what is officially recognized as approved" with the direct implication that "This is what we believe happened."

Sorry to quibble over this; I have work to do and I don't want to do it so I am looking for any reason to do something else.

[Pzykozis]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

First off, it's "canon". A cannon is a weapon that fires cannonballs, while a canon is a collected body of written work. This often gets confused with canon being something that is established between games, as in the "real" story that overrides whatever choices you made in the last one. They are not the same thing...

Not to be snarky or dissrespectful, but I have never seen that definition of "canon" used in that way before.

The word means something like "measuring stick" and and has traditionally been used of "accepted body of laws" in a church or "accepted list of books that constitute the Bible." (Websters).

The key term here is "accepted" or "approved." It is not just a collected body of work - it is that the collected body is approved in the sense that anything outside of them is not necessarily true, accurate, etc.

Again, not trying to be insulting or condescending or anything; but I do not think the above distinction is accurate. By extension, you could use the term to refer to the "canon" of say Robert Howard and Conan as opposed to what other writers may have done with the original character - but even here, the implication that Howard's accounts take precedence over what others may have written. It is not just the list of his books, but the content in them.

If something is "canon" than by every definition of the word I have ever read, then it means something like "This is what is officially recognized as approved" with the direct implication that "This is what we believe happened."

Thats the beauty of words having different meanings in different contexts. Look at egregious's meanings.

But this just seems like a giant semantic battle.

[Drew Hawke]

Please understand; I looked over my original post and realized a mistake.
I never meant to imply I would stop playing dragon age. I couldn't if I wanted to.
I can hardly play anything but dragon age and mass effect. (I think I may need help)

But the point is that I enjoy the games not only for the gameplay and customization but also for the story because that is what sets the series apart.
So I didn't understand what structure these other works were intended to take and that was were my question lies.

But please take no offense and I sincerely apologize for my poor wording.