164 réponses à ce sujet

[ollpet]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...
What needs buffing?:
Nothing.

What needs nerfing?:
Scion's blast.
Scion's HP.
Praetorian's HP.
(Possibly) Praetorians' movement speed.
Seeker swarms' health. Should be like the Ravagers' swarmers.

This sounds right to me.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The nerf's they need are : Make the Scion's & Preatorian's less damage resistant.

It is totally unrealistic for a Geth Infiltrator with hunter mode on shooting a Scion with a body shot using a Claymore + AP rounds and the health bar only goes down by 1

[Xerxes Black]

What they all said, and of course we must have the "Assuming Direct Control!" when things get possessed and Harby taunting us like in ME2... still sad their was so little harby in the SP

[whalewhisker]

Seeker Swarms are kind of really hard to kill sometimes and Scions are just ridiculous. But hey, I've managed against them all of this time.

[Dr.Freeman]

They're a pain in the ass, but a challenge though. However, bad team means no fun against collectors.

Modifié par Dr.Freeman, 28 octobre 2012 - 08:18 .

[MVestala]

I like about their unit-variety and posession effects (teehehe, explosions)

I don't like their Blitzkrieg Zergness and general ADHD maneuverability.

I'd buff the regular troopers a bit, they're laughable weak.

I'd nerf their speed / zerging a bit and reduce the Scion's damage.

Oh and EDIT:

I'd like Bioware to take a look about the targeting reticule range..it is lame that Scions and Ravagers can shoot perfect hits on you without you being able to even get a target reticule on them, from across the map, it is unfair.

Modifié par MVestala, 28 octobre 2012 - 08:48 .

[LexD85O]

My suggestions for improvement lead the way should Bioware staff be interested. Followed by my opinions.

What to Buff?: Nothing.
Numbers, tactics, overall strategy, troop types, unit synergy, firepower, durability, and mobility are all very strong ATM.

What to Nerf?:

- Seeker Swarms: Suggestions for improving their balance so they challenge power classes, rather than discouraging their use entirely.
1. Limiting the number of swarms that can be deployed per wave. Or...
2. Shortening the power denial delay considerably. Or...
3. Reducing effectiveness of powers 50%, or add 50% to cooldown on all powers as the effect. (would be better than total 100% denial.)
4. Make tech and biotic powers substantially more damaging to Collectors, rewarding teams for not abandoning power classes and spending ammo to clear swarms.

- Possessed Units:  Suggestions for improving their balance to prevent excessive diffuculty from over-possession.
1. Reduce the durability bonuses being given.
2. Limit the number of enemies that can be possessed simultaniously, and culmulatively, during a wave. (Example: Limit 3 at once and 9 per wave Gold, 2 & 6 Silver, 1 & 3 Bronze.)
3. Have a possession budget with more powerful enemies depleating it faster.
(Example: 1000pp per wave max (possession points) Collector Trooper = 100pp - Captain = 200pp - Scion 400pp - Praetorian = 600pp)

- Praetorians: If swarms and possessions were made less overwhelming, no changes would be needed to this unit. However, if both of the above remain, this unit cannot continue to be as durable or mobile as it is. Being suppressed by Scion cannon fire, flushed by half a dozen grenades, trapped by webs, shot at by basic troops with more durability and firepower than a Marauder or Centurion, and swarmed by a half dozen seeker clouds and plagues which respawn almost immediately after you kill one... *gasp* then this thing needs to be less frustrating and time consuming to kill.

What I like: The challenge and tactical varianance.

Challenge: You really have to have a good team to beat them on Gold, or a lot of time and patience to solo. They are challenging, and they manage to be so without being (AS) cheap as Cerberus and Geth sometimes are.

Tactical Varience: The use of webs to cut off escape routes and slow you down, and seeker swarms to hinder power use, combined with their ranged effectiveness, and tendency to swarm en-masse to flush you into the open where webs and long ranged artillery are waiting, makes for a strong tactic. Teams HAVE to work together to avoid being overwhelmed or cornered, and solo players have to be mobile, and situationally aware, to keep ahead of them.

What I don't like: The ratio/volume of seeker swarms and possessed units. Excessive durability of Praetorians. How much more powerful they are than Reapers.

Seeker Swarms: My biggest complaint about Collectors is the swarms. Having an ability that alters tactics or makes some classes / weapon loadouts more difficult to play is a great thing. However, power dependant classes and characters become all but useless against Collectors on Gold or Platinum.

Swarms are created with such freaquency and speed, by some of the most common enemy types, that it becomes a waste of time and ammo counter them. The power focused Adept will spend more time killing swarms than actually fighting. And on higher levels, the swarms consume a lot of ammunition, and are difficult to target at times, virtually doubling the number of contacts a team needs to deal with.

Possessed Units: The fact that so many units can be possessed at once, that enemies of all levels can be possessed, and that possession results in such staggeringly powerful increases in enemy durability and offensive capability, makes this a bit excessive. Too many times have I seen a group focus on taking down a charging Praetorian, only to be mobbed by a horde of cannon fodder enemies that became overpowered pseudo-bosses while everyone was fighting for their lives.

Praetorians: Their sheer size, relative silence, remarkable speed, ability to nullify power based attacks, and durability that apparently outstrips an Atlas or Banshee, combined with an insta-kill ability that seems to have the longest range of any boss, makes him the most dangerous of all enemies in close quarters. Of course, with a supporting cast designed to cut off escape and provide heavy suppression, keeping your distance is a tall order.
The sheer effectiveness of the Collector's basic units makes this enemy excessive. He is a great challenge, but throw in a possession to double his durability and he goes from challenging to frustrating.

Better than Reapers: It just seems kind of sad that the Reapers, formerly the toughest enemy in the game, the main antagonist of the games, and the primary / most plentiful enemy that the resistance would be encountering, is the weakest opponent. Why?

Their husks are 2nd rate. Their cannibals are weak, slow, and easy to hit, even with armor. Their Marauders are weaker than CC's and become vulnerable while applying a rather weak buff to the former two enemies. Their Ravagers can suppress like Scions, and have close range defenses, but are slower and lack the mindblowing possession buffs of the Scion. The brute is a big, slow, and comperably weak target with no ranged attack. The Banshee is the only enemy type that doesn't have a counterpart from another faction which is clearly superior. The Praetorian is similar, but it's ranged attack is a joke compared to heat seaking, cover ignoring, wall cornering acrobatics of banshee cancer.

[Snake_Squeezins]

Mafia_Steve wrote...

I figure enough time has passed, that we can give an assessment on the Collector Faction. Rate the Collectors as if they were around since day 1. In other words, factor out their "new car smell."

What do you like about them (besides their newness)?

What do you hate about them?

What do you think needs buffing, and how would you buff them?

What do you think needs nerfing, and how would you nerf them?

Overall I'd say they're imbalanced.  I don't think there's any doubt that Collectors are much harder than every other enemy.  I appreciate that some players want a challenge, but I'd stick that on Platinum buffs rather than have Bronze/Silver be instant death for newer and/or underequipped players.  Those should be "fun and gun" levels where you're not getting grenade spammed and executed after 2 seconds on the floor.

WHAT I LIKE:
I like the models.  And I like that they're "power-unfriendly" and fill a niche like that.  Each enemy should probably be especially tough on a type of character, or else the Collectors' are definitely overpowered in this regard.

WHAT I DON'T LIKE:
*MUCH* too hard on Bronze/Silver.  It's just not close.  Scions are the worst - spamming cluster grenades from across the map and one-shtting players is just the worst kind of thing to do to players in a casual-type match where most people are running pickup games.  Praetorians still insta-kill too quickly, though it's not nearly as bad as Banshees.

WHAT NEEDS BUFFING:
Nothing on Bronze/Silver, no way Collectors should be buffed at those levels.

WHAT NEEDS NERFING:
I think the nucelar explosions on the Abomination is a bit much.  The sound effect is more appropriate to the entire map exploding, not some 2-meter-tall skeleton.  Tone down the damage and sound effect.  Or if you just want to troll us, make the damage match the sound effect and just insta-kill everyone on the map.

I'd also make Seeker Swarms get insta-killed by any power, or at least appropriate powers like Incinerate, Warp, Cryo Blast, etc.  They are way too durable.

Scions need to do dranatically less damage and lose the cluster grenades.  At a minimum, the grenades need to be short-range and maybe have their number cut in half.  But I just don't like the whole cluser grenade idea at all (especially Bombers), there are better ways to deal with cover - like Husks, Abominations, charging enemies, etc.

Bottom line - I don't actively play games against Collectors any longer.  Way too much hassle and not enough payoff for pickup games.

[MajorStupidity]

Fix the bug with combos damage scaling on collectors, fix the bug that lets the scions double-shot players.

mainly scions decrease the armor a bit and tone down the grenade artillery. possession factor is alot of the difficulty with collectors. I remember harby only possessing one, but instead we get to face 3 possessed troopers, possessed captain, possessed seeker swarm (seeker plague), 2 possessed scions and a possessed praetorian all at the same time.

[CardboredSquare]

Just make Praetorians move slower and keep possessed enemies to a minimum of one or two.

[Skyance]

What
do you like about them (besides their newness)? The possessed abominations when they go boom - bonus points if they take out a teammate in process. xD Praetorian dog-roll animation looks hilarious when you're not busy trying to dodge its attacks. 

What
do you hate about them? The praetorians look too much like cockroaches. But in general, this faction irks me because I seem to always lag whenever I fight them. =/  

What
do you think needs buffing, and how would you buff them? I hate this b-word. 

What
do you think needs nerfing, and how would you nerf them? Screw this n-word. 

[hostaman]

inphex wrote...

What do you like about them?
Nothing in general, they're pretty hard to handle if you have a bad team.

What do you hate about them?
I hate them all in general, but most the scion and the praetorian.
Also the people who blow the possessed one's and get us kill.

What do you think needs buffing, and how would you buff them?
More like nerfing...


What do you think needs nerfing, and how would you nerf them?
They don't need a nerf, they're hard to handle as they're.

This.

They Actually beat the Geth as my least favourite faction.

Boss spam during any objective is bonkers.

They're currently as difficult on Bronze as Cerberus on SIlver!

[Rebel_Raven]

Playing a relaxing match in silver, and bronze tends to go out the window fighting the Collectors. Their difficulty doesn't scale well.

[can_serbes]

First of all i want to thank to developers for giving us this new faction. I was waiting for them for a while.
And I liked them very much. I read that some of the operatives are complaining about Scions but i think they are fun. You musn't escape from them if you get close they are very easy to take out. And also swarmers, you can't compare them with ravager's swammers. They are nat just one thing, it is a plague also it doesn't harm your shields/health it only shuts down your powers. Collector troopers an captains are also very hard enemies but they are very easy to headshot. Abominations are also fun. You must think twice when shooting them. So in my opinion there is no need to buff or nerf any collector class. They added a great value to multi player.

[axewood]

i love them, can be a bit hard sometime, depends of team u have.
Scions can be tricky sometimes...i want you to buff Possessed Abomination. i want bigger explosion.. BIG BOOM!

[ZoM_Head]

Much better than geth for sure.

[Astronaughte]

Like seeker swarms it's A welcome challenge.(I also laugh when they're deploy, the troopers look like they're craping them out always cheers me up.

Hate scions ability to launch grenades and immediately blast you as you flee.

Nerf

[Astronaughte]

Sorry nerf aggressiveness and scions

Buff... farting sounds for the seekers being released maybe add color so it's like a haneous fart cloud. And the smg you can get from them! what an annoying gun! I'd rather have the bane from borderlands2

[Fortack]

Not sure why so many people think Scions have too much HP. They go down really fast if you know where to shoot them. Overall I like them, the only thing I dislike are their cheap stunlock attacks - why for the Goddess' sake did Bioware cloned the horrible Geth Prime canon is beyond me

Oh, and Praetorians are dangerous enough. There's no need for their beams to shoot through 10 m thick walls. That's lame.

[TheGreatDayne]

My only problem is the Scion... They killed my Vorcha in three shots... when I was playing Bronze... Not even a silver level Prime can do that! Okay, I should probably test it again, just to make sure... But I remember playing gold against geth once... The Prime shot my Kroguard three times, and I was fine... I got shot three times by a silver scion, and I was not fine...

My point is, there is something wrong with the scions!

Modifié par TheGreatDayne, 28 octobre 2012 - 10:06 .

[Doni]

Problem is Collectors are the jack of all trades, master of all.
Seriously, write down all the pros/cons for factions, then compare.  Collectors are just as good if not better than the specialties of other factions.

A jack of all trades faction is fine, and in fact would be cool.  But you have to make each individual unit LESS effective than its counterpart in other factions.  The difficulty should come from the mix of units present, not the units themselves.

Modifié par Scruffaluphagus, 28 octobre 2012 - 10:30 .

[S0DAP0P]

The Scion can be a real pain, but they're one of the most enjoyable factions (if not the most enjoyable faction) to battle against in Multiplayer.

They were a real pain in the second installment.

As others have mentioned, and apparently the developers have acknowledged the Scion is experiencing a glitch that causes its damage to be multiplied. If that can be fixed I'd be happy with what we have as of far. Any other "problems" I have with the Collectors is in their presentation. They look fine, but not as detailed.. even somewhat darker than what I'd like them to be, but I'm not going to cry over a job done well as is.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Scions do way too much damage, the praetorian bubble is uncalled for and swarms have to much health.

Other than that I like them. They are the only faction that can actually cause you serious troubles during gold objective waves.

[jarrattgray]

I mostly like the Collectors but here are a few things

~On Silver they feel almost as hard as Reapers on Gold

~Seeker Swarms have too much health, 1 power use should kill them

~Units become possessed too much. Fighting two possessed Scions and a possessed Trooper/Captain at the same time on Silver is silly.

~There are no real sniping units. Collectors in Mass Effect 2 had Assassins and Guardians. Both mostly sat at range. Only the Scion sits at range now while everything else swarms you. I don't mind the Scion, he is filling the same role he had in ME2, but the Collector swarm feels more organised than Geth and therefore much worse. I would have liked to see more Nemesis like snipers than run and gun troops with automatic weapons.

~Finally I just feel that they move too much and too fast.

[Snake_Squeezins]

jarrattgray wrote...

I mostly like the Collectors but here are a few things

~On Silver they feel almost as hard as Reapers on Gold

~Seeker Swarms have too much health, 1 power use should kill them

~Units become possessed too much. Fighting two possessed Scions and a possessed Trooper/Captain at the same time on Silver is silly.

~There are no real sniping units. Collectors in Mass Effect 2 had Assassins and Guardians. Both mostly sat at range. Only the Scion sits at range now while everything else swarms you. I don't mind the Scion, he is filling the same role he had in ME2, but the Collector swarm feels more organised than Geth and therefore much worse. I would have liked to see more Nemesis like snipers than run and gun troops with automatic weapons.

~Finally I just feel that they move too much and too fast.

I agree with all of this, and I just want to say that the Scion *could* be fixed and be a legit enemy *if* it did a bit less damage, had slightly shorter range, had some kind of distinctive noise or tipoff that it was about to shoot (like the Ravager's blue laser sights), didn't have long-range cluster grenades when possessed, and only had a max of 3 cluster grenades at short range.  That would still be a challenging foe.