253 réponses à ce sujet

[plfranke]

What really takes away from the performance is that the game forces you into dealing with the kid so much. If it was just the shuttle scene that would have been fine, but the shuttle scene and the 3 inescapable dreams make it unbearable. It's almost as if the writers were intentionally trying to make you dislike the kid. He's got no personality and doesn't really make the player feel sympathetic.

[The Night Mammoth]

I just laughed.

For like 20 straight minutes.

[Big I]

I didn't care about the kid because I was never sure he was real. No kid would refuse help when Shepard offers it, the dialogue just didn't fit.

[justafan]

I kinda cared about the kid when he got killed, but he just seemed so out of place in the dreams. It shoulda been Kaiden there, or Jenkins. Poor Jenkins, nobody ever remember him .

Modifié par justafan, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .

[maia0407]

Not really. My first reaction to seeing the shuttles being blown up was, "Oh, no! All those poor soldiers on board!" Unnamed soldier whose leg we saw next to the kid on the shuttle flashed in my mind before I even thought about the kid dying. No joke.

Modifié par maia0407, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:04 .

[ForThessia]

Why would I care?

[AresKeith]

I didn't even see a kid, I was more worried about the Shuttles and the space police

[blueumi]

not much when I first played and once i beat the game I started to really enjoy watching him die

[AresKeith]

blueumi wrote...

not much when I first played and once i beat the game I started to really enjoy watching him die

Did you say "Hey its the kid, looks like he'll have a bright future" in a sarcastic tone? lol

[Tibbur]

If the idiot just went with shepard he could of been bunking up with Liara getting bedtime stories and coco with marshmallows. But nah he'd rather crawl about air shafts.

Modifié par Tibbur, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:42 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Tibbur wrote...

If the idiot just went with shepard he could of been bunking up with Liara getting bedtime stories and coco with marshmallows. But nah he'd rather crawl about air shafts.

Bunking with Liara? F*ck that sh*t, Shepard bunks with Liara, he can bunk with Garrus or Joker, they'd love that. 

I'd rather he just stayed in his vent and let things play out. His death is the best part of the first mission, edging out over Shepard, the youthful N7 marine being outpaced by Old-man Anderson and his rotund stomach. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:47 .

[Mr.House]

No, and for many reasons.

Short length: I have not known this character long at all. Mordin, Legion, Anderson, Grunt(when I thought he did die) Thane and Ash/Kaidan on Virmire, all hurt because I had known these characters for a long time, I was able to connect to them, this is not the case with this kid.

Bad symbolism: Anyone can see the writers wanted to make this kid a symbol for Earths falling, the problem is..It's just done so horrible and is as subtle as a brick to the face.

"You can't help me!.": This is the first thing you ever hear from this kid, this does not help me build a connection or want me to save the kid, at all.

Forced feeling:This issue is what really bugs me. Shepard is forced with emotion for this kid, why? Not all Shepards are the same, why must such an important piece for Shepard be taken out of her/his hand? This is very unacceptable.

Over the top death: If the above was not worse, we have the death scene which is so over the top, contrived and just feels like Bioware is yelling FEEL SAD FOR THE KID!

With all of this, it's very hard to feel anything about this throwaway character. Plus the nightmare parts where horrible.

[devSin]

Mr.House wrote...

With all of this, it's very hard to feel anything about this throwaway character. Plus the nightmare parts where horrible.

Agreed, except it's not a character, merely a cheap story device.

The kid is a ploy, a trick to get you to believe there is depth to something that truthfully has none.

Modifié par devSin, 29 octobre 2012 - 04:28 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

The Eruptionist wrote...

It's not so much the kid you have to care about but what he represents. Which is all the people that Shepard can't save. When you look at the kid, don't think about him as a specific person but think of him as the embodiment of the people you do care about. He's just an avatar, a face upon which Shepard projects the lives of everyone in the galaxy. Don't get too caught up in the kid as a singular person or individual.

That's what I think anyway.

Shepard herself utterly destroys this line of rationality in the very next scene. To paraphrase, she says to Anderson: "You cannot save them all and just have to save those you can." While I likely have misquoted, the essentially statement was reaffirming Anderson, and her own, resolve. Fantastic, moment over, Shepard has obviously dealt with the issue and accepted reality; people die.

Unfortunately, no. The kid continuously haunts Shepard's dreams and frankly, breaks suspension of belief for many players. My Shepard was a hardened woman with trust issues and a heavily pragmatic perspective. Her responses were aggressive and to the point. She told Jack to "get over it", asked Miranda if she were "naturally this ******" and killed Wrex!

I cannot stress enough how little this kid would not bother her. In fact, that statement above would be her response and frankly, she would shrug it off. While she may sound heartless, her defining moments I integrated through the character interaction, in particular, her relationship with Garrus. She does come around, which I liketo credit Mass Effect 2 being the start. Resurrection will change a person. Likewise, she has a sarcastic flair, despite ME's reluctancy to allow this dialogue (Ah, Dragon Age) but that is what the imagination is for.

And the aforementioned is the primary root of my dislike toward this scene. BioWare, removed control from us, the player, to carry out their horrible attempt to invoke PTSD. From an objective standpoint, the scene is woefully inep in tone, dialogue and devoid of any emotion. His voice alone makes the scene come across hammy. Thus, I promptly rolled my eyes and mentally patted that Destroyer on the back. It did what few would!

In case you were wondering. No, I do not like that scene. 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Imagine the pic below screaming: "DO YOU FEEL SAD YET?! DO YOU?! FEEL SAD DAMMIT!" Essentially sums it up.

[ElementL09]

I felt like, to my shepard, he was fake, a figment of my imagination from the reapers.

[Han Shot First]

JasonShepard wrote...

Ok, put it this way. Back in ME2, Shepard was - in some ways - a walking automaton. He/she VERY rarely shows emotion, accepts the whole 'brought back to life' thing without a batted eyelid, and... well, you get the picture. Even some of the Suicide Mission deaths cause him/her little more than a brief look down.

I liked that ME3 had something phase Shepard. I liked that he/she was shown to still be human. Maybe, as a plot device, using a dead child was a little contrived. But from an in-universe perspective... seeing that would cut me. ESPECIALLY with the knowledge that it was happening planet wide. (Thank-you Bill Casey for pointing out the zoom out they used - I hadn't noticed that before)

So yeah. With Clint's epic music, and with seeing all that was happening, YES. I felt something. I cared.
Though to be honest, I was only truly impressed when we got the first nightmare. Because that was when I realised that Shepard was hurting. Maybe you reckon your Shepard wouldn't have hurt - mine would have. Mine did. And I appreciate that.

I'm in the same boat.

I liked the dream sequences and Shepard being given some humanity, and some human failings (PTSD), rather than him being an emotionless, unflappable brick.

IMO the criticism directed at vent boy can mostly be broken down into two caregories. The first thinks Shepard is more bad@ss if he doesn't react to anything (the same people usually complain about Thessia), and people who can't stomach vent boy because of his later association with the Catalyst and the disappointing pre-EC endings.

I can understand where the latter group is coming from, the former I disagree with.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

justafan wrote...
 Poor Jenkins, nobody ever remember him .

They talk about him in From Ashes if you bring James or EDI along.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 29 octobre 2012 - 05:46 .

[EnvyTB075]

I'd wager that those who liked the sequences used the standard Shepard (male or female, but most probably male) and only got involved in the story as far as "Liara is hot, ima bang her, okay?" and "Garrus is cool, hes my bro" and left it at that. They played BioWares Shepard, while those who didn't invested in their Shepard, crafted their own character and got involved further than the average gamer.

These are the people who didn't like Shepards emotions being chosen for them.

[Mr.House]

Han Shot First wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

Ok, put it this way. Back in ME2, Shepard was - in some ways - a walking automaton. He/she VERY rarely shows emotion, accepts the whole 'brought back to life' thing without a batted eyelid, and... well, you get the picture. Even some of the Suicide Mission deaths cause him/her little more than a brief look down.

I liked that ME3 had something phase Shepard. I liked that he/she was shown to still be human. Maybe, as a plot device, using a dead child was a little contrived. But from an in-universe perspective... seeing that would cut me. ESPECIALLY with the knowledge that it was happening planet wide. (Thank-you Bill Casey for pointing out the zoom out they used - I hadn't noticed that before)

So yeah. With Clint's epic music, and with seeing all that was happening, YES. I felt something. I cared.
Though to be honest, I was only truly impressed when we got the first nightmare. Because that was when I realised that Shepard was hurting. Maybe you reckon your Shepard wouldn't have hurt - mine would have. Mine did. And I appreciate that.

I'm in the same boat.

I liked the dream sequences and Shepard being given some humanity, and some human failings (PTSD), rather than him being an emotionless, unflappable brick.

IMO the criticism directed at vent boy can mostly be broken down into two caregories. The first thinks Shepard is more bad@ss if he doesn't react to anything (the same people usually complain about Thessia), and people who can't stomach vent boy because of his later association with the Catalyst and the disappointing pre-EC endings.

I can understand where the latter group is coming from, the former I disagree with.

I don't fit in your two groups....

More so when I liked the Fall of Thessia and loved how my Shepard reacted to it.

Modifié par Mr.House, 29 octobre 2012 - 07:22 .

[justafan]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

justafan wrote...
 Poor Jenkins, nobody ever remember him .

They talk about him in From Ashes if you bring James or EDI along.

Really! Thats.... awesome!   Now I kinda wish I had that DLC.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm in the same boat.

I liked the dream sequences and Shepard being given some humanity, and some human failings (PTSD), rather than him being an emotionless, unflappable brick.

IMO the criticism directed at vent boy can mostly be broken down into two caregories. The first thinks Shepard is more bad@ss if he doesn't react to anything (the same people usually complain about Thessia), and people who can't stomach vent boy because of his later association with the Catalyst and the disappointing pre-EC endings.

I can understand where the latter group is coming from, the former I disagree with.

I do not fit into either of your categories. For instance, the response to sabotaging the Genophage cure and subsequently killing Wrex is precisely how I would expect my Shepard to respond. She is a pragmatic but not heartless. The quiet acceptance, yet understandable grief worked. Whereas, this abrupt obsession with some brat we saw for all of five seconds, was not. I am all for characterization. In fact, maybe ME ought to take a page from DA. Say what you will about DA2 but Hawke is a fairly solid character.

[Han Shot First]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm in the same boat.

I liked the dream sequences and Shepard being given some humanity, and some human failings (PTSD), rather than him being an emotionless, unflappable brick.

IMO the criticism directed at vent boy can mostly be broken down into two caregories. The first thinks Shepard is more bad@ss if he doesn't react to anything (the same people usually complain about Thessia), and people who can't stomach vent boy because of his later association with the Catalyst and the disappointing pre-EC endings.

I can understand where the latter group is coming from, the former I disagree with.

I do not fit into either of your categories. For instance, the response to sabotaging the Genophage cure and subsequently killing Wrex is precisely how I would expect my Shepard to respond. She is a pragmatic but not heartless. The quiet acceptance, yet understandable grief worked. Whereas, this abrupt obsession with some brat we saw for all of five seconds, was not. I am all for characterization. In fact, maybe ME ought to take a page from DA. Say what you will about DA2 but Hawke is a fairly solid character.

I do think Bioware didn't do enough to make the players care about vent boy.

I get why it would affect Shepard, but the player has no reason to care about the character even if Shepard does. In that I do think Bioware stumbled a bit. I liked the dream sequences, but more so because it added some emotional depth to Shepard. The death scene itself didn't really affect me much.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 29 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[Mr.House]

It would not affect my Shepard except for two reasons. The only way she would feel sad is if she knew this kid for a very long time or he was a sibling or nephew to a ME1/ME2 character.

A colonist Shepard who saw far worst at 16 years old would not be this badly affected by a random kid who refused help at all or is this still an rpg?

[Bourne Endeavor]

Han Shot First wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm in the same boat.

I liked the dream sequences and Shepard being given some humanity, and some human failings (PTSD), rather than him being an emotionless, unflappable brick.

IMO the criticism directed at vent boy can mostly be broken down into two caregories. The first thinks Shepard is more bad@ss if he doesn't react to anything (the same people usually complain about Thessia), and people who can't stomach vent boy because of his later association with the Catalyst and the disappointing pre-EC endings.

I can understand where the latter group is coming from, the former I disagree with.

I do not fit into either of your categories. For instance, the response to sabotaging the Genophage cure and subsequently killing Wrex is precisely how I would expect my Shepard to respond. She is a pragmatic but not heartless. The quiet acceptance, yet understandable grief worked. Whereas, this abrupt obsession with some brat we saw for all of five seconds, was not. I am all for characterization. In fact, maybe ME ought to take a page from DA. Say what you will about DA2 but Hawke is a fairly solid character.

I do think Bioware didn't do enough to make the players care about vent boy.

I get why it would affect Shepard, but the player has no reason to care about the character even if Shepard does. In that I do think Bioware stumbled a bit. I liked the dream sequences, but more so because it added some emotional depth to Shepard. The death scene itself didn't really affect me much.

I tend to believe both were a stumble. This sequence, like many others, ought to have brought up the dialogue wheel. Shepard's response, as inputted by the player, would then dictate the response. The fundamental complaint most have is the availability of choice was removed in favor of BioWare's Shepard.

Keep in mind, Earthborn Shepard has likely seen worse and as Mr. House mentioned. Colonist Shepard would be having traumas of that long before vent boy.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 29 octobre 2012 - 08:02 .