253 réponses à ce sujet

[RogueBot]

Of course not. I can recognize a plot device when I see one, like those stupid kids from The Walking Dead. They're not characters, they're just there to cause problems for the adults.

[Han Shot First]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Keep in mind, Earthborn Shepard has likely seen worse and as Mr. House mentioned. Colonist Shepard would be having traumas of that long before vent boy.

As has War Hero Shep and the Butcher of Torfan.

But I disagree that previous traumatic experiences would have made Shepard less likely to experience post traumatic stress over the fall of Earth. In fact that runs counter to what is known about post traumatic stress. Repeated or prolonged traumatic experiences up a person's risk factor. Also the trigger is not necessarily the most traumatic event a person has experienced, so the dream does also not necessarily mean that the death of the child was more traumatic for Shepard than say, the Virmire casualty or the murder of his family on Mindoir.

Of course whether or not Shepard's reaction was realistic is a different discussion from whether or not it was handled well by the writers.

[AllThatJazz]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

I'd wager that those who liked the sequences used the standard Shepard (male or female, but most probably male) and only got involved in the story as far as "Liara is hot, ima bang her, okay?" and "Garrus is cool, hes my bro" and left it at that. They played BioWares Shepard, while those who didn't invested in their Shepard, crafted their own character and got involved further than the average gamer.

These are the people who didn't like Shepards emotions being chosen for them.

Well that's a huge assumption to make, isn't it?  The sequences aren't my favourites- they are clumsily presented - but I don't loathe them by any means, certainly not with the vitriol spouted at them by the BSN, and I never play a default Shepard, and the game doesn't choose my emotions for me, and I don't have a single playthrough where I've 'banged' Liara. Though Garrus is cool, admittedly.

Anyway, to respond more generally to the thread, there are various ways to RP the dream sequences that don't all involve Shepard giving two stihs about the child.

I could have various playthroughs where: 

a) my Shep has a healthy parental/human instinct and is actually bothered by watching a kid getting blown to pieces in front of her (as, you know, I would be in RL if I saw such a thing regardless of whether I knew or liked the kid);

Shep has accepted the death of the child specifically, but has more trouble accepting the deaths of billions of innocents across the galaxy that she has no chance of saving. Whether this is because she feels for the people themselves, or is aggrieved at her own lack of power is up to me. These people/this powerlessness happen to be symbolised by the child simply because he was an innocent whose death she witnessed and lacked the power to be able to prevent (regardless of whether or not she would have done so had she been able);

c) Shepard is deeply affected by the traumatic events immediately preceding the dreams (Tuchanka etc). However, as is sometimes the case with dreams, instead of having a literal dream about the event/person she just witnessed, she dreams about something else that can nonetheless be thematically related to that event (sense of impending horror and hopelessness, inability to change the outcome, death of a being, feelings of being slow or paralysed). 

d) elements of all of the above, combining and creating such a generally appalling and stressful situation that it would be weird if there weren't a few nightmares. Recurring nightmares are by no means uncommon if a person is suffering from stress.

If I ever play a Shepard who is so lacking in basic humanity as to be unable to experience any of these emotions, then I could always RP that she's eaten some particularly stinky cheese.

Because the kid is such a vague character - barely there really, it makes the sequences easier for me to RP than had they shoehorned Ashley in there - who only one of my Shepards sctually liked (not enough to save her) and who has been dead for quite a while, and whose death Shepard has absolutely accepted because she was a soldier, and Shepard has witnessed lots of soldiers dying.

Like I say, the kid was an oddity, and a bit of a clumsy plot device, as were the dream sequences themselves (unless you happen to subscribe to IT, in which case I guess that's all pretty cool ), but whether you care about him or not isn't the point of his appearance in reality or dreams, in my view. But if it is, then sticking some other character into the dreams instead wouldn't make the sequences any better. It would still be Bioware deciding who your Shepard cares about. 

[AllThatJazz]

Also, my Colonist Shepard did indeed have dreams about Mindoir for years after the event - it's part of my established headcanon for that Shep, and why the nightmares in ME3 actually worked very well for her.

[Foolsfolly]

Snovicus wrote...

 My question is, did anyone actually have some kind of emotional response to the kid getting blasted out of the sky the first time they played the game?

 Because I thought it was some pretty weak writing that we were intended to be upset by the fact that "a kid died". Besides being fictitious, he had no depth to speak of, which made for a laughable excuse at drama, in my opinion. And that's not even getting into the dream sequences or the ending.

I thought he was merely a symbol for all the innocents on Earth dying at this moment. And I thought they handled him well enough, perhaps a little too heavy handed since he's like the first character you see on Earth. But well enough.

I started feeling really weird and worried when the kid kept showing up in Shepard's dreams. I was in Canada when the game came out and by the time I got back to the States I'd known that there was a bunch of hate about the ending. And Shepard dreaming about the first person Shepard sees in the game had me worried.

I still didn't dislike the kid. I hated the dreams. I don't understand what they possibly mean. The voices of the dead just talking while you're chasing children sounds like the madness of some sick pedophile... but whatever.

I only hated the brat when the Catalyst took its form for literally no decernable reason and then gave me three completely disgusting choices. I sat there shooting it with the Carnifax for a few minutes before choosing Control because I really hoped Shepard would fly all the Reapers into a goddamn black hole and end this madness once and for all.

[clarkusdarkus]

Well when he got shot out of the air i just thought i'd get them back kinda thing,i'll get revenge for all those that died at the reapers hands.......but then i started dreaming of him and i was like huh? i didn't love the kid...many have died and his just another......that's when i kinda didn't feel my shepard and taking the image of the catalyst was the ultimate failure and completely lost all connection to my shepard.

[EnvyTB075]

AllThatJazz wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

I'd wager that those who liked the sequences used the standard Shepard (male or female, but most probably male) and only got involved in the story as far as "Liara is hot, ima bang her, okay?" and "Garrus is cool, hes my bro" and left it at that. They played BioWares Shepard, while those who didn't invested in their Shepard, crafted their own character and got involved further than the average gamer.

These are the people who didn't like Shepards emotions being chosen for them.

Well that's a huge assumption to make, isn't it?

It isn't when i'm making a bet, not stating outright fact, due to the amount of instances where one will say they're good scenes and then qualifies their statement by saying they played as standard Shepard.

Just calling it as i see it.

[Display Name Owner]

I honestly did not care at all about that boy. Then again, I haven't cried at a film since Land Before Time 2, I'm just that manly haha.

But yeah, I wasn't sad about him at all, and I couldn't bring myself to feel Shepard's grief with all those dream sequences. Actually, for some of my Shepards, the dreams kind of work, but I've got one renegade who I play as a ruthless, tough as nails badass who's a little bit of a bastard. I haven't brought him into ME3 yet, but I already know the moments involving the child are just going to break my immersion because they won't fit with that character.

I can see what Bioware were trying to do, humanising the victims of the Reapers' onslaught, and it was a good idea, but I just don't identify with that kid in the slightest, and I wonder if they tried to push it a little too far. Strangely I felt more for Saren and TIM when they killed themselves, despite the terrible things they both did.

[giftfish]

Snovicus wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

i felt like the game wanted me to be sad. the first time through i'd already had suspicions about him, what with the odd vent scene. but i definitly didn't care even a fraction as much as when kaiden died on virmire or when mordin and legion sacrificed themselves.

This is what drew me out of the game quite a bit. In that, I cared more about what happened to the genuinely fleshed out characters of the series, and yet Shepard will only reflect upon the loss of the one kid he knew for three minutes, like he doesn't realize (or care) that people he knows are dying. (Or the millions of other children on Earth, for that matter)

Especially if your Shepard is a spacer or colonist, I wonder how much importance s/he would place on Earth and it's population.  My cannon Shepard is a colonist and has always fought for equality among all species/planets, and I think after the events of ME1 and ME2, she would be having more nightmares about failing his/her squadmates than a random kid from Earth.

So, yes, I agree that it felt contrived.  But, the entire beginning of ME3 felt contrived to me.  Especially if the player didn't play Bringing down the Sky, there was really no good reason in my book for Shepard and the ME2 squad to be broken up.  I played ME1 only just before ME3, so I was quite attached to the ME2 squad at this point, and was beyond confused that BW took this route.  It's just one of the many reasons that I don't replay the game.

ME1 and ME2, on the other hand, I replay the crap out of.

Modifié par giftfish, 29 octobre 2012 - 01:45 .

[Capt. Pancake]

I only thought of him as one of the many on earth being killed. What I want to know is why the hell would he say "you can't help me", how does he know I can't help him? Is he just stupid?

[Xellith]

Capt. Pancake wrote...

I only thought of him as one of the many on earth being killed. What I want to know is why the hell would he say "you can't help me", how does he know I can't help him? Is he just stupid?

Yes. 

Idiots deserve to die when there is a reaper invasion.

[RustySam]

The kid had no effect on me and the only motivation for taking back Earth was this vague "I kinda live there IRL".

However, you remember the scene when we fail on Thessia? Those desperate radio communications at the end and the screams when Reapers descend from the sky? They get to me every time. I can feel the terror/something in their voices.

So, Bioware, next time remember: kids =/= strong emotions. It's a cliche for average to bad writers.

[CDR David Shepard]

RustySam wrote...

However, you remember the scene when we fail on Thessia? Those desperate radio communications at the end and the screams when Reapers descend from the sky? They get to me every time. I can feel the terror/something in their voices.

Great scene.

I went into Thessia hoping for a "It's the Alliance...thank the goddess" type of end.

How it ended with them basically hoping for Shepard to save them...asking where (s)he was...while Shepard was trying to communicate with them before they died was definitely a powerful scene.

My only complaints with it was how Liara only seemed to care about Shepard at that moment. They definitely should of had her breakdown there.

A great scene nonetheless.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:51 .

[Xellith]

RustySam wrote...

The kid had no effect on me and the only motivation for taking back Earth was this vague "I kinda live there IRL".

However, you remember the scene when we fail on Thessia? Those desperate radio communications at the end and the screams when Reapers descend from the sky? They get to me every time. I can feel the terror/something in their voices.

So, Bioware, next time remember: kids =/= strong emotions. It's a cliche for average to bad writers.

At least if you only say 10 words to the damn kid before they die or something.  Walking Dead game does this well imo.  Still not happy with the ending to episode 4.  All those choices you have made = suck it up.   =/

[C9316]

Not one bit, it was extremely forced. At this point I had already gotten involved in the universe, formed attachments to the characters and lore that I didn't need some poor cliche to motivate me when I already had motivation from seeing the universe I fell in love with being decimated on all sides by the force we've been trying to stop throughout the entire story. It sorta feels like it was only added for the new people..

[mongoosephantom]

No... i 've only seen that kid for 5 seconds so even if i tried i wouldn't be able to give a f***

[Isichar]

Hmm I admit I found it a tad bit too contrived to genuinely care. To be honest if Shepard was not constantly thinking about the child, I think most people would have forgotten about the kid halfway through the game.

[N147]

Being an exceptionally cold person, no I felt nothing, not because it was just bad writing, but because I genuinely don't give two ****s if a kid I don't know dies, that said, I also agree that it was forced and the ending would've been loads better had the Catalyst taken a different form, like maybe Saren.....or anyone really.

[Killdren88]

Give my Shep Nightmares about his LI dying or crew dying. Then you will get a emotional response from me.

[Jere85]

Even if i would care irl, my renegade shepard sure wouldn't, my paragon might, still irl i just see a bad attempt of making us care. I have and love my kids irl, but why care for another child in game in the middle of a reaper war? There will be millions of casualties, children being the first as they have no idea what to do. Make it Ethical like 1 kid means as much as millions? It doesnt.

[CuseGirl]

Snovicus wrote...
 My question is, did anyone actually have some kind of emotional response to the kid getting blasted out of the sky the first time they played the game?

Because I thought it was some pretty weak writing that we were intended to be upset by the fact that "a kid died". Besides being fictitious, he had no depth to speak of, which made for a laughable excuse at drama, in my opinion. And that's not even getting into the dream sequences or the ending.

I had heard rumors about "they show a kid dying, OMG!" and I thought "oh, that's gonna be horrible." But I didn't realize the child would get into a vessel and die, I thought they actually SHOWED the child dying. That alone removed any chance for an emotional impact.

So my answer is no. Once he got into the shuttle, I knew that ship was gonna get shot down and I knew "he's not the only child who got on a shuttle and that shuttle got shot down". And that's the FIRST time I played the game. Once you experience the whole game and it's original ending, there's NO WAY I care about that child ever again.

Modifié par CuseGirl, 29 octobre 2012 - 06:42 .

[inko1nsiderate]

RogueBot wrote...

Of course not. I can recognize a plot device when I see one, like those stupid kids from The Walking Dead. They're not characters, they're just there to cause problems for the adults.

Have you not read the comics?  Carl becomes a real character in fairly short order.

[xAmilli0n]

Clearly Shepard cared...didn't you see the angry face she made when he got 'sploded?

[Arokel]

Yes. I don't know why people didn't. Shep just saw a child blown out of sky. Also its not just about the child. Imo Shep sees the child as a symbol for everything he is fighting for and he saw that symbol get vaporized.