83 réponses à ce sujet

[jstme]

I might be wrong, but i do not think there was modder friendly EA game in years. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong, i could be .

[The Elder King]

Emzamination wrote...

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

This is worth noting

I was advised to stop giving my opinion on the developer kit because it made modders angry in the Da2 section.I'm not sure if that still holds here but I'm not willing to test it.

I remember it, and if I were you I wouldn't care about the fact that people will be angry for your opinion. I'm actually thing modding is great and could help sell more dlc and making people continue to play the game (which is the opposite of what you believe, I think), but I wouldn't get angry to you. Everyone is free to state his/her opinion, so long as they state it in the proper way.
Of course, people could say that they strongly disagree with your opinion, but without insulting you.

[GloriousDame]

tmp7704 wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

I'm pretty sure he meant the toolset the OP is referring to because another dev posted somewhere in the forum that it won't be a day-1 feature (something about frostbite/etc). You can try digging for the exact post yourself, or not.

If there's such post at all, i'd read it as a more polite/PResque way to tell the forum people not to hold their breaths waiting for the toolset release, similar to DA2. "It won't be a day 1 feature" doesn't actually mean it will be a feature at later date.

You're right, this is a very likely possibility- and to be honest I didn't think about it that way:wub:.. But there's still a chance, however slight, that they're holding on to their word. At any rate, I messaged one of the devs asking about this, I doubt they'll reply but in the off-chance that they do I'll post whatever info (if any) here.

[tmp7704]

If you do get a reply that'd be quite useful; thank you

[ejoslin]

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

Just the opposite.  Now, you may not be able to sell crappy DLCs like item packs with weird textures (I don't think it really matters, though, if you have mod tools or not for that -- either you think they suck and wouldn't take them if they're free or you'd buy them no matter what).  However, if you have mod tools, the mods will keep people interested in the game longer.  The longer they're playing a game, the more DLCs they'll be willing to buy.

I do not, for one second, think that my mods caused people to NOT buy DLCs for DAO.  I bet, though, that perhaps they kept a few people's interest going enough that when DLCs were released, more people bought than would have had there not been mods keeping their interest alive in the game.

Not providing mod support is just short sighted.  An example I like to use is the Sims 3.  I know, I know.  But there were never official tools released for the game; however, the files needed to mod the game are readily accessible and easy to edit.  So the front end programs were made by fans, and there's tons of modding going on, and people still playing the game and, more importantly, buying the expansion packs, stuff packs, and items from the Sims store.  I would bet anything it would not be the cash cow that it is without modding.

Skyrim is another good example.  The price of that game still hasn't dropped.  I'm sure the DLCs are doing well.  

However, a problem is that mods are not available for the consoles.  So perhaps the PC market is small enough that the extra sales and extra interest in the game is not enough to worry about.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 octobre 2012 - 06:50 .

[henkez3]

ejoslin wrote...

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

Just the opposite.  Now, you may not be able to sell crappy DLCs like item packs with weird textures (I don't think it really matters, though, if you have mod tools or not for that -- either you think they suck and wouldn't take them if they're free or you'd buy them no matter what).  However, if you have mod tools, the mods will keep people interested in the game longer.  The longer they're playing a game, the more DLCs they'll be willing to buy.

I do not, for one second, think that my mods caused people to NOT buy DLCs for DAO.  I bet, though, that perhaps they kept a few people's interest going enough that when DLCs were released, more people bought than would have had there not been mods keeping their interest alive in the game.

Not providing mod support is just short sighted.  An example I like to use is the Sims 3.  I know, I know.  But there were never official tools released for the game; however, the files needed to mod the game are readily accessible and easy to edit.  So the front end programs were made by fans, and there's tons of modding going on, and people still playing the game and, more importantly, buying the expansion packs, stuff packs, and items from the Sims store.  I would bet anything it would not be the cash cow that it is without modding.

Skyrim is another good example.  The price of that game still hasn't dropped.  I'm sure the DLCs are doing well.  

However, a problem is that mods are not available for the consoles.  So perhaps the PC market is small enough that the extra sales and extra interest in the game is not enough to worry about.

I have to agree with this. I'm more inclined to buy DLC if a game is mod friendly. Mostly because DLC + modding usually means there will be more good stuff to mod!

[Palipride47]

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

The only reason people think this is because of what happened with EA, Maxis, and the Sims. 
The only reason EA thinks this is because of shortsightedness and the insatiable demand for profit maximization. 

EA is rolling in cash with The Sims (which made way, way more than EVERY OTHER GAME EVER MADE) stores, which sell meshes as microtransactions.

When they found out about people who were modding Sims 2 and giving away their textures, characters, code edits for free, they didn't care because no one was selling them, and no one was making money.

Then TSR (The Sims Resource) came around, and charged people for certain popular meshes (that were always WAY better than anything EAxis came up with). People paid insane amounts of money to have these meshes, to the point where people were making a living in designing stuff for Sims 2.

EA even approached and collaborated with them for Sims 3, which sent "modders" who gave away their creations into a furious frenzy. 

Now, Sims 3 was made incredibly restrictive in terms of mods, and the only mods that work seamlessly are crappy meshes in the EA store for 2.99 US

The expansion packs for Sims were proto-Story DLC
The microtransactions for meshes are the precursor to DA2 Item Packs. 

As long as EA finds a demand for "customization" (with mage pants, better hairstyles, gameplay edits), things will get more and more restrictive on PCs, and EA will make and sell more DLC "Item Packs". Not even Valve Corp (which, honestly, did a lot to help revive PC gaming) completely stop this trend. 

When you replay a game, the company essentially lost money, because you are still playing something old instead of buying the new thing. It is infuriating that you have to spend $60 US only once, and you can give your game to a friend with a plain CD Key *gasp.* Hence, Securom, Internet Activations, and the switch to "play games through EA's Origin", which I will fight (by buying physical copies) as long as possible. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 28 octobre 2012 - 09:37 .

[MagmaSaiyan]

id rather play a superior professional game than any modded half(or even full) ass attempts. im pretty sure i would hardly "install" anything unless its truly worth while. but to each its own.

[Maria Caliban]

henkez3 wrote...

I think modfriendly games actually sell MORE DLC than non-mod friendly games. Non mod-friendly games just die so much quicker.

This is correct.

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

This is incorrect.

Anything that increases the life of the game increases future DLC sales.

[Dhiro]

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

I think modfriendly games actually sell MORE DLC than non-mod friendly games. Non mod-friendly games just die so much quicker.

This is correct.

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

This is incorrect.

Anything that increases the life of the game increases future DLC sales.

Mods can also be used to understand your fanbase. The Sink, a player house in the Old World Blues DLC for Fallout: New Vegas came to be after the devs noticed the number of player houses the modder community made and how well they were received by the players.

[aragfore03]

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3, so I don't think DA3 will lend itself to modding the way Skyrim does.

Well.... if that's the case.... that sucks. Poor decision IMO. One of the reasons Bethesda has such a strong following and great game sales is how mod friendly their games are. Oh well, hope it's better than DA2. 

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Parmida wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Parmida wrote...

Mods are awesome.
I love toolsets more than the vanilla games,lol.

And didn't one of the devs say they were working on a toolset, just that it wouldn't be a day-1 feature?
So we know modding will definitely be possible, just not right off the bat. 

I'd die from happiness if they released a toolset, the time is not important*grabby hands*.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]

Here, have some squee fodder:

But I do remember another dev saying it wouldn't be a day-1 feature. 

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Hopefully that's not just internal stuff.

Modifié par aragfore03, 28 octobre 2012 - 11:13 .

[upsettingshorts]

Pretty sure it is (internal stuff).

[xsdob]

People will find a way, if not through bioware than from their own ingenuity. No matter how complicated, people will find a way to pull it off, we're a resilient species that way.

[axl99]

What xsdob said.

I would attribute that to the fact that Bioware had JUST gotten their hands on Frostbyte 2 and are still figuring it out. For all we know if DICE ever put out an SDK for public use it's probably not even close to being user-friendly.

But, priorities. Game first. Modding later.

[Melca36]

Emzamination wrote...

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

This is worth noting

I was advised to stop giving my opinion on the developer kit because it made modders angry in the Da2 section.I'm not sure if that still holds here but I'm not willing to test it.

Good you're not saying anything. You were pretty insulting in that other  post

I mean you are entitled to be against but its like you didn't understand that modding is a hobby and a passion for some people.

Modifié par Melca36, 29 octobre 2012 - 12:37 .

[MilaBanilla]

 I love mods! I REALLY <3<3 Mods! It makes the games much more interesting and replayeable. When I install a new mod(new hairstyles or armor) for DA:O, I would create new characters to match the hairstyle or armor 
The toolset is amazing. I can spend hours making new characters instead of being on the game and being indesive .

I really hope that DA3 is mod friendly because if it isn't, I won't replay it as much as I did with DA:O or DA2(even though DA2 doesn't have a toolset, there are still some cool armors and mods out there)

Please make it mod friendly Bioware 

[deuce985]

Bioware would have to go through DICE and seeing as DICE never releases toolkits, probably not.

[deuce985]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Parmida wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Parmida wrote...

Mods are awesome.
I love toolsets more than the vanilla games,lol.

And didn't one of the devs say they were working on a toolset, just that it wouldn't be a day-1 feature?
So we know modding will definitely be possible, just not right off the bat.

I'd die from happiness if they released a toolset, the time is not important*grabby hands*.

Here, have some squee fodder:

But I do remember another dev saying it wouldn't be a day-1 feature.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the tools the devs use...

[Sanunes]

It will be interesting to see if they will release a toolkit for Dragon Age 3, if they do it might be only after the DLC cycle ends that way they get the best of worlds, for then they sell the DLC without having the "worry" that the toolkit is impacting DLC sales negatively.

The only thing about a toolkit that has my concern is something like that needs to have its roots in the game during the development of it, so now is the best time. If they wait it might be too much work to make one that works properly.

[SirGladiator]

Its pretty obvious that the more mods, the better, for all concerned. Its most obvious that more mods make the game more fun for the players, but that naturally, in turn, makes them play the game more and 'want' to play it more, thus making them more interested in future DLC/Expansions. There's also the benefit that many mods (especially the DAO mods, no doubt thanks to the Toolset they had) actually allow modders to do the work that the playtesters shouldve done but didn't, fixing a TON of bugs, essentially getting regular folks to work for Bioware for free. The only thing that not having mods benefits anyone is in sales of like, item packs and such, no doubt people would be less interested in item packs if they can just download mods for free. But aside from that, its a winner for the players of the game, the company that makes the game, its a winner for everybody. And DA2 did have a lot of mods, even without any kind of toolkit, so I would expect a lot with DA3 also, regardless of if/when a toolkit arrives for the modders. Obviously not as much awesomeness as the DAO mods, but still, much better than nothing . So let's hope for the best, but even if we get the worst it wont be all bad, there will still be quite a few mods out there, I think that's a really safe bet.

[Solmanian]

It is my understanding that EA instituted a severe ait modding policy, making the usage of mods a bannable offense (as in you won't be able to play the game any more).

Personally, I support modding, and I hope bioware will stand by it's vibrant modding community.  Heck, without mods DA 1&2 are practicaly unplayable to me...

Modifié par Solmanian, 29 octobre 2012 - 06:19 .

[Solmanian]

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

I think modfriendly games actually sell MORE DLC than non-mod friendly games. Non mod-friendly games just die so much quicker.

This is correct.

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

This is incorrect.

Anything that increases the life of the game increases future DLC sales.

Aye, and more importently modders do importent job in "smoothing the edges". Bioware can't make a perfect game that will please everyone (alot of people want contradicting things), but mods allow players to personalize their gaming experience.

Also, as long as modders can't bring in quality voice actors, I don't see them competing with the BW DLC's.

[Bfler]

Solmanian wrote...


Also, as long as modders can't bring in quality voice actors, I don't see them competing with the BW DLC's.

In case you own Skyrim for PC, download f.e. the Cerwiden mod and listen to the voice actors. They aren't worse than official voice actors in Bioware games.

Or the dark times mod for DAO as another example.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

iSignIn wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3, so I don't think DA3 will lend itself to modding the way Skyrim does.

Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.

It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

DA2 didn't die fast because it lacked a modding kit. It died because it was a bad game.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Maria Caliban wrote...

henkez3 wrote...

I think modfriendly games actually sell MORE DLC than non-mod friendly games. Non mod-friendly games just die so much quicker.

This is correct.

Sainna wrote...

Modding would make selling DLC's bit harder so they wont definitly be giving out proper tools for it.

This is incorrect.

Anything that increases the life of the game increases future DLC sales.

I think there might be some truth to the second statement, games like Skryim and Fallout don't really offer item pack DLCs since there is such an abundance of user created content along those lines (Oblivion had that horse armor DLC and it was pretty much seen as a joke.) I'm sure it's more than made up for by the increased longevity though, as long as the game plans on offering lots of more substantial DLC. Either way it's moot, PC sales are a pretty small fraction of the total game sales, and Microsoft and Sony aren't too keen on allowing any sort of mod distribution on their platforms.