83 réponses à ce sujet

[Bfler]

Yes the console releases are also a reason.
Witcher 1 f.e. was a PC game and there we have had official competitions offered by CDPR about the best mod. Now with Witcher 2 as a more console oriented game there is nothing like that.

[Aleya]

iSignIn wrote...
Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.

It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

Yes, it's sad to us. But let's not forget the amount of money allowing modding earns the people in charge: $0.0. I'm pretty sure EA sees mods as direct competition to official DLC. Which is of course ridiculous, but try explaining that to a suit who knows exactly nothing about gaming and far too much about quarterly statements.

[Xewaka]

Aleya wrote...

iSignIn wrote...
Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.
It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

Yes, it's sad to us. But let's not forget the amount of money allowing modding earns the people in charge: $0.0. I'm pretty sure EA sees mods as direct competition to official DLC. Which is of course ridiculous, but try explaining that to a suit who knows exactly nothing about gaming and far too much about quarterly statements.

Wrong.
Mods increase the amount of time the game resides in the player's hard drive and conscious thought. If you're still playing (thanks to mods), it is more likely you'll buy DLC than if you stopped playing and moved onto a game couple months ago. This is very easily understandable by a suit (hey! free publicity!)
The problem with the toolset is not that mods reduce DLC selling, is wether or not it is financially viable to rebuild the toolset practically from the beginning to package it into a shippable state, that is: Will having the toolset increase the DLC revenue enough to justify itself?

Imp of the Perverse wrote...
I think there might be some truth to the second statement, games like Skryim and Fallout don't really  offer item pack DLCs since there is such an abundance of user created  content along those lines (Oblivion had that horse armor DLC and it was pretty much seen as a joke.) I'm sure it's more than made up for by the increased longevity though, as long as the game plans on offering lots of more substantial DLC. Either way it's moot, PC sales are a pretty small fraction of the total game sales, and Microsoft and Sony aren't too keen on allowing any sort of mod distribution on their platforms.

If by small fraction you mean above a third of total sales (i.e. no single console surpass it, but rather it requires both combined to beat it), then you'd be right.

Modifié par Xewaka, 29 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Xewaka wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...
I think there might be some truth to the second statement, games like Skryim and Fallout don't really  offer item pack DLCs since there is such an abundance of user created  content along those lines (Oblivion had that horse armor DLC and it was pretty much seen as a joke.) I'm sure it's more than made up for by the increased longevity though, as long as the game plans on offering lots of more substantial DLC. Either way it's moot, PC sales are a pretty small fraction of the total game sales, and Microsoft and Sony aren't too keen on allowing any sort of mod distribution on their platforms.

If by small fraction you mean above a third of total sales (i.e. no single console surpass it, but rather it requires both combined to beat it), then you'd be right.

Do you have a source for this?

[Dhiro]

For what is worth, the The Sims series have been very profitable for EA, and mods are its modding community is quite big.

[Imp of the Perverse]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...
I think there might be some truth to the second statement, games like Skryim and Fallout don't really  offer item pack DLCs since there is such an abundance of user created  content along those lines (Oblivion had that horse armor DLC and it was pretty much seen as a joke.) I'm sure it's more than made up for by the increased longevity though, as long as the game plans on offering lots of more substantial DLC. Either way it's moot, PC sales are a pretty small fraction of the total game sales, and Microsoft and Sony aren't too keen on allowing any sort of mod distribution on their platforms.

If by small fraction you mean above a third of total sales (i.e. no single console surpass it, but rather it requires both combined to beat it), then you'd be right.

Do you have a source for this?

Actually he might be right (great news ), though I'd like to see a reliable source. I was judging by an article on VGChartz that showed xbox alone selling six times as many copies as PC, but looking closer it doesn't include digital PC sales, which are really high nowadays.

[ScepticMatt]

Now with Witcher 2 as a more console oriented game there is nothing like that.

Wrong.
They are releasing the full REDKit engine for free, currently in closed beta (trailer)

As for DA3, I doubt that EA will encourage modding.

[Solmanian]

As the consoles become older and more outdated, more people turn to the superior performence of the PC, especialy now that we're at the end of the cycle. When the new genration release there will be an increase again in console game sales, but when they too become outdated in a couple of years (compared to cutting edge PC technology) the sales will drop again. But no matter the case no single console will ever surpess the pc because of a simple fact: There is almost no house in the civilized world that doesn't have a PC, while a dedicated gaming console (costing hundreds of dollars) is still something alot of families of aren't eager to buy. Most of my friends don't have consoles. I know only 3 people that have them, I myself have a hand-me-down PS2 that I haven't used in years. But I don't know anyone that doesn't have some sort of PC at home.

[Xewaka]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Do you have a source for this?

I knew I should've bookmarked it. I'm searching The Escapist's news back catalogue, but it might take more digging than time I have.

[GloriousDame]

tmp7704 wrote...

If you do get a reply that'd be quite useful; thank you

So, you were right (though I could have sworn I saw something by another dev, damn it):

Pretty much every game has a toolset. We need it to make the game
ourselves too. A lot of the work we've been doing has been on improving
and adding to Frostbite so it can do the things BioWare needs to do to
make our type of games.

Who knows, though- we might get surprised.

[Palipride47]

Dhiro wrote...

For what is worth, the The Sims series have been very profitable for EA, and mods are its modding community is quite big.

And as soon as EA saw Sims modders making money, they gutted the "free Sims modding" community by making it harder for 13 yr girls to get in on it. 

This wasn't a problem until EA realized they could make money by selling the same things modders were making for free (i.e. my huge post on the previous page about what they did to Sims)

[joshko]

I definitely support mod tools 100%
In my case it would be a deal breaker between me buying it at full price or waiting for a sweet discount, if at all.

[nihiliste]

To me the modding community has always been essential to the enjoyment of PC gaming. DA2's lack of mod support made it even less enjoyable to me than it already was. I do feel like the community tends to find a way if its motivated, and if DA3 is a lot better than the past outing then maybe it won't die as fast. I think people just not wanting to play DA2 much contributes a bit to the lack of modding, in addition to the lack of toolset of course.

I definitely won't be buying DA3 on initial release/full price though if it isn't mod friendly, I'll wait for a discount and to see if the community makes a bit of headway.

[naughty99]

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3

Can you elaborate on who made this statement?

[Plaintiff]

iSignIn wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3, so I don't think DA3 will lend itself to modding the way Skyrim does.

Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.

It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

Sad for who? Players? Possibly. Why should developers care if the lack of mod support causes the game to "die" quickly. They don't benefit from mods in the least. It doesn't matter if you play the game, as long as someone somewhere paid for it.

[Plaintiff]

Solmanian wrote...

As the consoles become older and more outdated, more people turn to the superior performence of the PC, especialy now that we're at the end of the cycle. When the new genration release there will be an increase again in console game sales, but when they too become outdated in a couple of years (compared to cutting edge PC technology) the sales will drop again. But no matter the case no single console will ever surpess the pc because of a simple fact: There is almost no house in the civilized world that doesn't have a PC, while a dedicated gaming console (costing hundreds of dollars) is still something alot of families of aren't eager to buy. Most of my friends don't have consoles. I know only 3 people that have them, I myself have a hand-me-down PS2 that I haven't used in years. But I don't know anyone that doesn't have some sort of PC at home.

Top of the line PCs can cost several thousand dollars, and the only alternative to buying a new PC in order to keep up with the latest games is buying individual parts yourself and installing them manually, which a lot of people do not know how to do.

Consoles are accessible to everyone. Effort required in set-up is minimal, and it's easier to develop games for them because their capabilities are standardised. Consoles have a wider variety of games and offer different kinds of play that PCs do not. Consoles are going to continue to dominate the gaming market over PCs for the forseeable future, regardless of the individual sales of any one game.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Plaintiff wrote...

iSignIn wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3, so I don't think DA3 will lend itself to modding the way Skyrim does.

Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.

It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

Sad for who? Players? Possibly. Why should developers care if the lack of mod support causes the game to "die" quickly. They don't benefit from mods in the least. It doesn't matter if you play the game, as long as someone somewhere paid for it.

Check this video out, there is a pretty good reason to keep customers interested in your game for as long as possible. DLC sales.

[Plaintiff]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

iSignIn wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3, so I don't think DA3 will lend itself to modding the way Skyrim does.

Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.

It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

Sad for who? Players? Possibly. Why should developers care if the lack of mod support causes the game to "die" quickly. They don't benefit from mods in the least. It doesn't matter if you play the game, as long as someone somewhere paid for it.

Check this video out, there is a pretty good reason to keep customers interested in your game for as long as possible. DLC sales.

An argument that's only applicable to PC gamers, whicha  substantial portion of gamers are not. I'd rather Bioware, and game companies in general, focussed on creating content that benefits all their customers and not just one subsection.

[Bfler]

Plaintiff wrote...

Top of the line PCs can cost several thousand dollars, and the only alternative to buying a new PC in order to keep up with the latest games is buying individual parts yourself and installing them manually, which a lot of people do not know how to do.

That you need the best and expensive hardware to play new games is only a marketing trick for the people who don't know better and kids, that you can manipulate very easy.
I can run every game with my 2 1/2 year old PC on high settings. I play f.e. Skyrim with high res textures, high detail and ENB mod without problems on that thing.
And even if you buy new hardware, to open your case with a skewdriver and put f.e. a new graphics card in the slot of the old one shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

Modifié par Bfler, 31 octobre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Imp of the Perverse]

Plaintiff wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

iSignIn wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

It's been stated that there's they're not planning to release an SDK with DA 3, so I don't think DA3 will lend itself to modding the way Skyrim does.

Then it's guaranteed that the game will die as fast as DA2 did on PC.

It's sad really, when you see that several times more DA:O mods are made every month than DA2 mods, and more people are still playing DA:O than DA2.

Sad for who? Players? Possibly. Why should developers care if the lack of mod support causes the game to "die" quickly. They don't benefit from mods in the least. It doesn't matter if you play the game, as long as someone somewhere paid for it.

Check this video out, there is a pretty good reason to keep customers interested in your game for as long as possible. DLC sales.

An argument that's only applicable to PC gamers, whicha  substantial portion of gamers are not. I'd rather Bioware, and game companies in general, focussed on creating content that benefits all their customers and not just one subsection.

If you look at earlier posts in this thread, this has already come up. I was under the impression that PC gamers were a pretty small minority, but it looks like Bioware's PC sales might even outnumber the xbox's. As a pretty avid modder (when I'm into it) I'd like to see support from more companies, and ideally some way to get mods to consoles. Apparently that's out of developer's hands though.

[Palipride47]

Bfler wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Top of the line PCs can cost several thousand dollars, and the only alternative to buying a new PC in order to keep up with the latest games is buying individual parts yourself and installing them manually, which a lot of people do not know how to do.

That you need the best and expensive hardware to play new games is only a marketing trick for the people who don't know better and kids, that you can manipulate very easy.
I can run every game with my 2 1/2 year old PC on high settings. I play f.e. Skyrim with high res textures, high detail and ENB mod without problems on that thing.
And even if you buy new hardware, to open your case with a skewdriver and put f.e. a new graphics card in the slot of the old one shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

Seriously, thousands?

Maybe an Alienware (which honestly, you are buying for pretty colors and an alien logo)

All I need is a compatible graphics card (compatible with my processor and has the right pins and etc, all info that is readily available on the internet- and AMD and NVIDIA release the next "best" one every 6 months anyway), a screwdriver, and careful, clean hands.

Before, I played DA2 (granted, on lowest settings) with a 2 year old Dell Inspiron 1545 that cost 350$ USD when I bought it. I got a M5030 at factory closeout prices (and laughable "gaming setting") and still play the game on med graphics without explosions. Update card then boom. 

And this is coming from someone who 5 years ago was still using floppys (and had a desktop computer with a floppy drive). 

[ejoslin]

Palipride47 wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

For what is worth, the The Sims series have been very profitable for EA, and mods are its modding community is quite big.

And as soon as EA saw Sims modders making money, they gutted the "free Sims modding" community by making it harder for 13 yr girls to get in on it. 

This wasn't a problem until EA realized they could make money by selling the same things modders were making for free (i.e. my huge post on the previous page about what they did to Sims)

Actually, the Sims 3 has a huge and active modding community.  While a lot of involves just changing game play (there are people who never play with EA story progression on and instead opt for modded versions such as Awesomemod or NRAAS Story Progression), that doesn't invalidate the fact that there are tons of mods out there.  I also mod aspects of the Sims 3.  As far as item meshes, I don't know; there are a lot of things out there, but since I don't make them, I don't know what issues there are with those in particular.

I just know this -- if there's a part of the Sims 3 that I want to play out differently, I can pull out a file, edit it, drop it in the mods folder, and voila, my changes are now in the game.  This is what keeps the game interesting for people and keeps them playing it AND keeps them buying the ripoff stuff packs and Sims 3 store crap.

If any company wants to sell DLCs, it needs to do two things -- keep the game interesting, and make sure the DLCs are of comparable quality.  I will admit that I quit buying DAO DLCs after the Feastday gifts.  I felt ripped off -- nothing to do with the quality of DAO, which I played for a long time (thanks to mods).  Had the DLCs I bought been close to the same quality as the game itself, I would have happily dropped $10 per.  As it was, it just wasn't worth the money to me.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 novembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[mousestalker]

Plaintiff wrote...

Top of the line PCs can cost several thousand dollars, and the only alternative to buying a new PC in order to keep up with the latest games is buying individual parts yourself and installing them manually, which a lot of people do not know how to do.

You really do not need anything close to bleeding edge to play almost all games at their finest settings. As for building your own computer, it's a simple enjoyable task that's rather difficult to do wrong as long as you pay attention.

It's rather funny that twenty years ago, a huge percentage of PC users built their own and I knew very few women who did. Today a far lower percentage of computer users builds their own, but most of the ones I know are women.

[Fast Jimmy]

I think if EA was smart, they would include mod kits in every game where the community was asking for it and A) charge for the kit itself (a modest fee, nothing about $25) and then allow players to sell their mods through a site like Steam/Origin, etc. and take a cut of the proceeds.

They could still allow players to create mods for free, but there would be perhaps size limitations, where a free mod could only be under 20 MB, say. If the mod was any larger, the modder would HAVE to charge (say, maybe a $1 minimum for any mods over 20 MB). And any mods used with the game would need to be registered with EA, so that mdoders could not sell/give away their mods through other venues.

For the console players, the most successful/purchased/downloaded mods could be bundled into a DLC and given full EA/Bioware support, such as possibly voice acting, polished graphics and improved interface and sold on Live or the PSN.

BAM. Instant money-making venture that also keeps people interested in your product and forces people to register their copies (just like what Multiplayer and other features are trying to force you to do).

[ejoslin]

As a modder, I will say that there is NO way I would pay for a toolkit, and there is no way I would consent for any of my mods to be sold by EA unless they paid me the standard industry rate for my programming and QA work, though I would be fine with them using it in a free patch.  

See, the thing is, mods already make a profit for the company -- I know of several people who bought the PC version of DAO who already owned a console version JUST for the mods.   Just providing a toolset is a win/win situation.  They get quality work for very little cost, people stay interested in their games far longer which means increased sales of both the base game and DLCs, players get a wide variety of choices, and modders have fun with modding.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 novembre 2012 - 01:09 .