24 réponses à ce sujet

[TheGreatLordShatner]

These were lacking in DA:O and should have been one of the major features to be improved for DA2.

Instead they got cut completely.

Non-combat skills are an essential part of the RPG experience and should be given as much attention as combat skills and not just seen as an add on like in DA:O.  

The game should be built from the ground up on the principle that certains build could avoid combat altogether. 

[Frocharocha]

TheGreatLordShatner wrote...

These were lacking in DA:O and should have been one of the major features to be improved for DA2.

Instead they got cut completely.

Non-combat skills are an essential part of the RPG experience and should be given as much attention as combat skills and not just seen as an add on like in DA:O.  

The game should be built from the ground up on the principle that certains build could avoid combat altogether. 

Well, their absence in DA:O and lack of improve i nDA2 suggest that they aren't necessary at all.

[Knight of Dane]

I don't think so. I didn't mind them, but you can't call them essential when they don't hold any core value to the progress of the game.

[naughty99]

Agree, really missed crafting in DA2. Crafting expands the range of different characters you can play, greatly enhancing the replay value of a game.

Instead of crafting we got quasi-shops where we could buy potions. If I want to play an alchemist type character, an assassin who specializes in brewing poisons, etc., it doesn't really work in DA2, as you are not actually crafting, just buying stuff.

The flip side of the coin is that without crafting, you have a lot of junk items that serve absolutely no purpose in the game world. 

If you happen to find some interesting exotic ingredients like Wyvern Scent Gland, or Demonic Ichor, for example, wouldn't you expect that these things could be useful for brewing a potion, or some kind of use other than "junk"?

Modifié par naughty99, 28 octobre 2012 - 08:09 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I miss 'em. I wouldn't mind if they came back.

[Realmzmaster]

There was no real crafting in either DAO or DA2. The PC got a recipe, then went shopping for the ingredients. Real crafting would require trial and error. The PC finds an item and experiments with different reagents to see what can be made or experiements to create a more potent version of an existing item. None of which is possible in DAO or DA2.

[naughty99]

Realmzmaster wrote...

There was no real crafting in either DAO or DA2. The PC got a recipe, then went shopping for the ingredients. Real crafting would require trial and error. The PC finds an item and experiments with different reagents to see what can be made or experiements to create a more potent version of an existing item. None of which is possible in DAO or DA2.

I'd agree that the crafting mechanics could have been improved upon in DA:O; however, in DA2 you do not even combine purchased ingredients together to make new items - the crafting station became just a shop where you buy potions or poisons.

Modifié par naughty99, 28 octobre 2012 - 08:21 .

[ianvillan]

The crafting in DA2 was the thedas version of Ebay.

Another thing I never understood about DA2 crafting was that you find resources for merchants so they can craft items you buy, So when I found the resources in the deep roads a seperate merchant then has to take another expedition to the deep roads for the resource. What merchant in Kirkwall is really going to do that every time they need the deep mushrooms, yet still sell the items they make really cheap.

DAO crafting wasn't brilliant and had some problems but was miles better than DA2 system which I cant even call a crafting system.

[TheGreatLordShatner]

I'm not just talking about crafting though.

I'm talking about speech, stealing, stealth (as a skill, not some crappy scripted path), medicine, bluffing, gambling etc...

Well, their absence in DA:O and lack of improve i nDA2 suggest that they aren't necessary at all.

This would imply that DA:O and DA2 are perfect or the model for all RPGs.

[ParkerArt]

Frocharocha wrote...
Well, their absence in DA:O and lack of improve i nDA2 suggest that they aren't necessary at all.

Well, the panning of DA II by everyone but paid reviews *cough* IGN *cough* might suggest that Bioware was wrong in removing them.

That said, anything not combat related isn't very AWESOME no is it.

Modifié par ParkerArt, 28 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[ianvillan]

TheGreatLordShatner wrote...

I'm not just talking about crafting though.

I'm talking about speech, stealing, stealth (as a skill, not some crappy scripted path), medicine, bluffing, gambling etc...

Well, their absence in DA:O and lack of improve i nDA2 suggest that they aren't necessary at all.

This would imply that DA:O and DA2 are perfect or the model for all RPGs.

I would like all the non combat skills you mentioned to be in DA3 and I think the removal of the ones we had in DAO was a mistake that was made for the wrong reasons.

Now will we get the skills you mentioned, i doubt it and dont think we will even get back all the skills Origins had.
The only skills I think we have a chance of getting back are a watered down stealth system and some sort of crafting system.

I believe Bioware thinks that the non combat skills put off new players because they aren't actiony or easy to understand so would be a waste of resource like the chosse of races was. 

[Fortlowe]

I'd see non combat skills return, however I would call for a separate experience gauge for them from combat skills. Add non combat activities that assign points to the non combat skills. Kill two birds with one stone.

Yes, I mean mini games. They would enliven, enhance, and extend the game. Want to be more charming and cunning? Gamble and pickpocket and flirt. Want to up your crafting abilities? Collect flora and hunt fauna. Gotta do some rune or weapon crafting. Help at the smith or mix potions with the apothecary. Doing these tasks would reward both the aforementioned non combat skills, and Sherlock's coin purse.

Just because they were in DA:O, doesn't mean non combat skills were done in the most rewarding manner. As far as them putting off new players, I can't shake the notion that most new players to the series, are still aware that skill building will be a part of the gameplay, and that so long as this particular set of skills are engaging both in expanding and using them, new players would embrace them with no problem.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:06 .

[SafetyShattered]

I thought they were cool, but honestly having them cut didn't bother me too much. I was just like "meh." So if they came back cool, if not it doesn't really bother me. After all for DA3 there are a few things higher up on my list then non-combat related skills.

[Vicious]

Persuade 'get everything you want with no consequences' needs to return. my favorite feature.

[ledod]

I am at conflict: I liked the rp aspects of non-combat skills, but, in respect to gameplay practicality, I thought I was sometimes gimped by the non-combat skills. (Stealth, lock picking, and stealing *ahem*)

At other times, some non-combats' seemed too mandatory; diplomacy, or whatever that skill was designated as in origins, was virtually indispensable for most play-throughs.

If developers can better implement the skills to mesh well with story/gameplay, I am game

[Iakus]

I'd like to see noncombat skills.

The game shouldn't be just about becoming a more efficient killing machine

[Rawgrim]

Non combat skills are just as important, in an rpg, as combat skills. If there is only combat skills, its an action game.

[RandomSyhn]

I don't ever recall seeing a persuade or indimidate fail, except for maybe the crazy hermit. I can't quite remember. But as a whole especially for orlais I hope to see non combat skills, or at least somthing that works one way for combat and another for politicking.

[Rawgrim]

I failed at persuasion a few times. I think it was because the skill wasn`t fully maxed out, though. i failed with that dwarf who had Sten`s sword.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Vicious wrote...

Persuade 'get everything you want with no consequences' needs to return. my favorite feature.

Yes, I do like being able to manipulate people. It's always the one ability I like build up as quickly as possible in games such as KOTOR 1 & 2 , the first Mass Effect (Charm, Intimidate) Dragon Age: Origins.

I liked the way they did it in Mass Effect 2 best of all, by tying it in to the Paragon/ Renegade meters.

[AppealToReason]

I really didn't notice a difference in the way I did things. Crafting was a pain in the ass in DAO and I had so much money from killing everything in DA2 I could have bought so much stock Walmart would be proud. I never found much purpose to stealing besides getting that one set of small mini quests and lockpicking annoyed me as I felt I had to spec my rogues almost the same way or my OCD would kill me for missing a chest with scalemail boots/moth eaten scarf.

I wouldn't mind see it again, but I won't be crying myself up an angry internet thread if its not there. I like the concept, but the implementation could use a little work.

[Foolsfolly]

Fortlowe wrote...

I'd see non combat skills return, however I would call for a separate experience gauge for them from combat skills. Add non combat activities that assign points to the non combat skills. Kill two birds with one stone.

Yes, I mean mini games. They would enliven, enhance, and extend the game. Want to be more charming and cunning? Gamble and pickpocket and flirt. Want to up your crafting abilities? Collect flora and hunt fauna. Gotta do some rune or weapon crafting. Help at the smith or mix potions with the apothecary. Doing these tasks would reward both the aforementioned non combat skills, and Sherlock's coin purse.

Just because they were in DA:O, doesn't mean non combat skills were done in the most rewarding manner. As far as them putting off new players, I can't shake the notion that most new players to the series, are still aware that skill building will be a part of the gameplay, and that so long as this particular set of skills are engaging both in expanding and using them, new players would embrace them with no problem.

What if they were like perks you earned?

Like coercion for example, you get better at the more you attempt it. Get X amount of successes or Y amount of failures and you get a point into it. Continue to make these choices and you may get the second passive perk.

Play around with toxins and potions and reagents and eventually your character gets a level in herbalism. Which nets your character some basic knowledge of certain ingredients and reagents. Traps and runes could be handled similarly.

From here it gets tougher. How do you improve survivalism/outdoorsmanshipismery? Have your character track animals and bounty heads in the wilderness until they become better tracksmen?

Thankfully other perks could be easily added by doing certain events or achievements. ...I'd like to see perks added without having to put points into something like abilities. And these non-combat skills could be handled like this. The Witcher 2 did something similar with its persuasion and intimidation. I personally thought it was more logical and more character-driven than simply killing 20 orcs and putting a point into how well spoken my character is... as killing orcs clearly demonstrates.

[TheGreatLordShatner]

RandomSyhn wrote...

I don't ever recall seeing a persuade or indimidate fail, except for maybe the crazy hermit. I can't quite remember. But as a whole especially for orlais I hope to see non combat skills, or at least somthing that works one way for combat and another for politicking.

That's because the skill was much too easy in DA:O.  You only needed to dump 5-6 (?) points into it to max it out.  

[Il Divo]

TheGreatLordShatner wrote...

RandomSyhn wrote...

I don't ever recall seeing a persuade or indimidate fail, except for maybe the crazy hermit. I can't quite remember. But as a whole especially for orlais I hope to see non combat skills, or at least somthing that works one way for combat and another for politicking.

That's because the skill was much too easy in DA:O.  You only needed to dump 5-6 (?) points into it to max it out.  

Not even. I think it was 4.

[TheGreatLordShatner]

AppealToReason wrote...

I really didn't notice a difference in the way I did things. Crafting was a pain in the ass in DAO and I had so much money from killing everything in DA2 I could have bought so much stock Walmart would be proud. I never found much purpose to stealing besides getting that one set of small mini quests and lockpicking annoyed me as I felt I had to spec my rogues almost the same way or my OCD would kill me for missing a chest with scalemail boots/moth eaten scarf.

Just because things didn't work well in DA: O doesn't mean they can't.  

It's not like "implement this like in DA:O or nothing!" 

They can and should implement it better.

For example - say there's a mission where you have to investigate a murder in a mansion.  You could use your speech skill to interogate people.  Or if you have steal skills you look around and find an unlockable chest that contains a clue that would be otherwise unseen.