328 réponses à ce sujet

[Maclimes]

I know a lot of people were upset with the "Everyone is Bi" aspect of Dragon Age 2, because it seemed un-realistic. Real people have preferences, and depth to their personal decisions.

The problem is that simply making them straight/gay/bi doesn't actually address that issue. It just addresses one minor aspect of a person's preference. People actually have far more complex reasons for romance other than the set of genitalia they possess.

*****

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

What I'm saying is, drawing the line at gender preference is arbitrary and self-serving. It's better to just go with the "Everyone is hero-sexual", and give people options. The alternative is just over-simplification.

[Han Shot First]

While I agree that real people have plenty of other preferences besides just the sex of prospective partners, Bioware not being able to implement of all those preferences isn't a convincing argument for making all characters bi IMO. I'd rather the characters had some semblance of individual personalities that weren't entirely defined by the player.

[Quicksilver26]

@Maclimes thank you for that but now I must run before the trolls get here. peace out!

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Maclimes wrote...

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Leliana says the Maker loves everyone and so does she for that reason.......... just saying.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 29 octobre 2012 - 11:36 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Han Shot First wrote...

While I agree that real people have plenty of other preferences besides just the sex of prospective partners, Bioware not being able to implement of all those preferences isn't a convincing argument for making all characters bi IMO. I'd rather the characters had some semblance of individual personalities that weren't entirely defined by the player.

The companions/LIs in both games each possessed an individual personality. While the PC can influence the companions (through conversations and various shades of friendship, gift giving, or the hardening that occurs in DA:O), the PC doesn't define the sum total of who they are. Even with a romance arc, the companion/LI is still a unique character with his/her own goals, quirks, perspectives on the world.

[SirGladiator]

The reason that the DA2 system (and the DD system, and the Skyrim system, and the Sims system, etc.) is the best is simple, because everyone can romance who they want to. It doesn't change their 'individual personality' in any way to allow the player to romance them, they're still who they are. Although even if it did, that wouldn't be a bad thing anyway, as changing your teammate's personality is generally a fun thing to do, like when you get to determine whether Leliana (or Allistair) will be 'hardened' in DAO, influencing your teammates in various ways is fun. Realistic? I'd say so, but even if it wasn't I wouldnt care, its fun, and fun is the point of playing any game. But the romance system is just about letting you romance whoever you want to. You can say that an individual character starts out as straight and you have to influence them into not being straight (or vice-versa) or you can simply call the character bi right from the beginning, it doesn't make any difference, the bottom line is being able to romance who you want is far more fun than not being able to, thats why the DA2 system is the best romance system, the most commonly used romance system in gaming today, and definitely should continue in DA3.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Maclimes wrote...

I know a lot of people were upset with the "Everyone is Bi" aspect of Dragon Age 2, because it seemed un-realistic. Real people have preferences, and depth to their personal decisions.

The problem is that simply making them straight/gay/bi doesn't actually address that issue. It just addresses one minor aspect of a person's preference. People actually have far more complex reasons for romance other than the set of genitalia they possess.

*****

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

What I'm saying is, drawing the line at gender preference is arbitrary and self-serving. It's better to just go with the "Everyone is hero-sexual", and give people options. The alternative is just over-simplification.

*animated image use as commentary (meme) removed per Site Rule #6*

I want characters to have preferences.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 31 octobre 2012 - 07:56 .

[ledod]

Maclimes wrote...

I know a lot of people were upset with the "Everyone is Bi" aspect of Dragon Age 2, because it seemed un-realistic. Real people have preferences, and depth to their personal decisions.

The problem is that simply making them straight/gay/bi doesn't actually address that issue. It just addresses one minor aspect of a person's preference. People actually have far more complex reasons for romance other than the set of genitalia they possess.

*****

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

What I'm saying is, drawing the line at gender preference is arbitrary and self-serving. It's better to just go with the "Everyone is hero-sexual", and give people options. The alternative is just over-simplification.

Cullen had a hard-on for my fem' mage in origins. Add mages to his list of turn-ons, porfis

[Dhiro]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

I know a lot of people were upset with the "Everyone is Bi" aspect of Dragon Age 2, because it seemed un-realistic. Real people have preferences, and depth to their personal decisions.

The problem is that simply making them straight/gay/bi doesn't actually address that issue. It just addresses one minor aspect of a person's preference. People actually have far more complex reasons for romance other than the set of genitalia they possess.

*****

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

What I'm saying is, drawing the line at gender preference is arbitrary and self-serving. It's better to just go with the "Everyone is hero-sexual", and give people options. The alternative is just over-simplification.

-snip-

I want characters to have preferences.

Why? Rather, how do you think "preferences" will benefit the game when compared to the all-bi approach of DA II?

[iSignIn]

Maclimes wrote...

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

What I'm saying is, drawing the line at gender preference is arbitrary and self-serving. It's better to just go with the "Everyone is hero-sexual", and give people options. The alternative is just over-simplification.

What you're saying is none of the above companions will like my Wardens/Hawkes, who are all ambiguously brown but unapologetically atheist Elf/Human Rogues/Mages.

And I'm perfectly OK with that, really. As I know Zevran & Morrigan like me.

But I don't agree with your interpretation of Leliana or Alistair. Neither of them is that stupid. Leliana in particular is only using the Maker as an instrument for her mission.

Modifié par iSignIn, 30 octobre 2012 - 12:09 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Dhiro wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

I know a lot of people were upset with the "Everyone is Bi" aspect of Dragon Age 2, because it seemed un-realistic. Real people have preferences, and depth to their personal decisions.

The problem is that simply making them straight/gay/bi doesn't actually address that issue. It just addresses one minor aspect of a person's preference. People actually have far more complex reasons for romance other than the set of genitalia they possess.

*****

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

What I'm saying is, drawing the line at gender preference is arbitrary and self-serving. It's better to just go with the "Everyone is hero-sexual", and give people options. The alternative is just over-simplification.

-snip-

I want characters to have preferences.

Why? Rather, how do you think "preferences" will benefit the game when compared to the all-bi approach of DA II?

The characters are not there to serve as my play things. They are supposed to be people with preferences, and that extends beyond sexual orientation. It could include one's favorite color or favorite ice cream. Would you deny them that preference just to make you happy? Could you be that selfish?

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 30 octobre 2012 - 12:10 .

[Maria Caliban]

I want my love interest to dump me because I favor butter pecan ice cream and she's a white chocolate macadamia nut woman.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 30 octobre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Whereas me? I'd much rather have a good and noble templar lady who my maleficar could corrupt by slowly getting her to accept and perform worse and worse acts of evil. Conversely, if I was playing templar, I'd want to be able to talk a maleficar around.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 12:14 .

[ledod]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I want my love interest to dump me because I favor butter pecan ice cream and she's a white chocolate macadamia nut woman.

Oh gurl, I loves the butter pecan.

[WhiteThunder]

Maclimes wrote...
People actually have far more complex reasons for romance other than the set of genitalia they possess.

*****

Perhaps Fenris only like non-mages, regardless of other factors.

Perhaps Leliana only likes people who are loyal Andrastians, regardless of race or gender.

Perhaps Anders only likes light-skinned characters, regardless of gender or race.

Perhaps Alistair only likes human females who are loyal Andrastians.

Perhaps Cullen only likes blondes who are proficient warriors, no rogues or mages.

Perhaps Sigrun only likes dwarf warrior males named Maclimes because she's mine and you can't have her.

******

I agree, these should definitely be implemented into the game.  Good job.

Of course, your saying that sexuality is no more hardwired than having a "type" is more than a little questionable, but I'll ignore it because they should definitely implement a system in which the companions have more requirements than the PC's gender for starting a relationship.  It's not like we're playing a dating sim, right?

[TheFinalDoctor]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The characters are not there to serve as my play things. They are supposed to be people with preferences, and that extends beyond sexual orientation. It could include one's favorite color or favorite ice cream. Would you deny them that preference just to make you happy? Could you be that selfish?

This. Even though it sounds strange, I kinda liked that on my femshep playthrough of ME3, that jacob dumped me. It was handled poorly, to be sure, but it did give a better illusion that ME is its own universe and that the characters make their own choices, not because the universe revolves around the the Player Character, but that each character has their own motives and preferences.

[Sylvianus]

SirGladiator wrote...

The reason that the DA2 system (and the DD system, and the Skyrim system, and the Sims system, etc.) is the best is simple, because everyone can romance who they want to. It doesn't change their 'individual personality' in any way to allow the player to romance them, they're still who they are. Although even if it did, that wouldn't be a bad thing anyway, as changing your teammate's personality is generally a fun thing to do, like when you get to determine whether Leliana (or Allistair) will be 'hardened' in DAO, influencing your teammates in various ways is fun. Realistic? I'd say so, but even if it wasn't I wouldnt care, its fun, and fun is the point of playing any game. But the romance system is just about letting you romance whoever you want to. You can say that an individual character starts out as straight and you have to influence them into not being straight (or vice-versa) or you can simply call the character bi right from the beginning, it doesn't make any difference, the bottom line is being able to romance who you want is far more fun than not being able to, thats why the DA2 system is the best romance system, the most commonly used romance system in gaming today, and definitely should continue in DA3.

Speak for yourself. I didn't find this system fun in DA2, it was weird and seemed nonsense in the story I tried to care about. ( didn't like the romance nor the story of DA2 anyways ) " Fun ",lol,  obviously we don't share the same meaning. I enjoy characters who seem truly alive, independent with their tastes and their preferences in my game even if that doesn't always please me. That's what is interesting. The characters are no toys, no sexual machines ( hearticon ) not there to serve your desires but to be a part of this universe too.That is at least what they mean to me first. I can personally accept that some won't share my bed because that's how it happens in real life too. To each its preferences. Characters have also preferences. Yes, sexual preferences too. I have nothing against that.

Otherwise I hate this word : Herosexual. That seems so incredibly stupid and indecent...

In any case, I wasn't convinced in DA2. That was crap. I'll see if it is better with the next game. Only the results will matter and can change my mind.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 octobre 2012 - 12:26 .

[sharkboy421]

SirGladiator wrote...

The reason that the DA2 system (and the DD system, and the Skyrim system, and the Sims system, etc.) is the best is simple, because everyone can romance who they want to. It doesn't change their 'individual personality' in any way to allow the player to romance them, they're still who they are. Although even if it did, that wouldn't be a bad thing anyway, as changing your teammate's personality is generally a fun thing to do, like when you get to determine whether Leliana (or Allistair) will be 'hardened' in DAO, influencing your teammates in various ways is fun. Realistic? I'd say so, but even if it wasn't I wouldnt care, its fun, and fun is the point of playing any game. But the romance system is just about letting you romance whoever you want to. You can say that an individual character starts out as straight and you have to influence them into not being straight (or vice-versa) or you can simply call the character bi right from the beginning, it doesn't make any difference, the bottom line is being able to romance who you want is far more fun than not being able to, thats why the DA2 system is the best romance system, the most commonly used romance system in gaming today, and definitely should continue in DA3.

Agreed.  The LI in DA2 were all the same character regardless of whether male Hawke or Lady Hawke romanced them.  I was so glad to see Bioware took that approach in DA2 and really want it to continue.

[Scott Sion]

I don't mind men hitting on me; I can't help it if they're attracted to my good looks and colorful personality. I just don't want them to get pissed at me when I tell them I prefer the ladies.

[Masha Potato]

You'd be surprised how little depth there is in real people's personal decisions OP

[Sylvianus]

They already said and repeated they would go that route again.. They are all bi system will come back in DA3, so I don't really know why we are still arguing about that anyways.

Nobody will change its mind.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 octobre 2012 - 01:12 .

[ledod]

Masha Potato wrote...

You'd be surprised how little depth there is in real people's personal decisions OP

I want to know more, elaborate!

[Knight of Dane]

No they didn't Sylvianus, individual developers have said that him/her/they preferred the Mass Effect way of offering all kinds of sexuality but that the all bi path is a easier alternative that satisfies just as many people.

[Masha Potato]

For example my decision to get into those idiotic "lol sexuality is a supercomplex part of personality so bisexuals are unrealistic" debates over and over again. I could be eating mint-n-chip ice cream instead of wasting time on this!

[Tamyn]

The question to me is, do people prefer that the LIs have alternate universe versions of themselves that conform their sexuality depending on the sex of your character, or are they outspokenly bisexual in everyone's game (as Zevran was)?