328 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

I think want most people really want is just a neutral way to respond IE "Anders i think you are a very nice person but i'm just not into you" would have been 100% better then "I don't want you thinking that way" which made me want to slap my Hawke.

This is a reasonable request, in terms of wanting increased level of player agency.

Although I have no beef with Anders still taking this the wrong way and feeling rejected. Frankly to me it makes sense that sometimes characters would take innocuous things poorly. Plenty of opportunity to still become friends and see this as nothing more than a speedbump along the way.

[mesmerizedish]

I feel like the only person in the world who thought "I don't want you thinking of me like that" was a perfectly polite and neutral response.

[Quicksilver26]

WhiteThunder wrote...

Are you arguing that a person's "type" is just as hardwired as their sexuality?  Are you really arguing that?

 

yes absolutely yes! who I get along with as a person is vastly more important than their gender. and my getting along with them will in turn determine who i'll romance. 
Let's take Merill for example at first when I saw her and she was all bubbly and babbling I thought damn she is adorable can I keep her. after she did her blood magic thing I was completely replaced by her and would romance her even if she was the only bi option. Sometimes it's not the gender that matters it's the person and I think that is the point you all need to come to understand.  

[Quicksilver26]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

I highly recommend you (not just this poster but all of you who think that what happed in DA2 was odd) watch the first couple of episodes of The L Word (NOTE: you may want to skip over the sex scenes though) 

Why on earth would anyone want to skip the sex scenes in The L Word?

I don't know you make a really good point. maybe because it might make them uncraftable or something.

[WhiteThunder]

@Battlebloodmage, what I'm saying is that the characters shouldn't all be hero-sexual. Some SHOULD be gay, some should be straight, and some should be bi. There's no reason for there not to be gay characters like in ME3.

[Quicksilver26]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think want most people really want is just a neutral way to respond IE "Anders i think you are a very nice person but i'm just not into you" would have been 100% better then "I don't want you thinking that way" which made me want to slap my Hawke.

This is a reasonable request, in terms of wanting increased level of player agency.

Although I have no beef with Anders still taking this the wrong way and feeling rejected. Frankly to me it makes sense that sometimes characters would take innocuous things poorly. Plenty of opportunity to still become friends and see this as nothing more than a speedbump along the way.

and I agree with you I truly do. If my PC says something that pissed an NPC off they should damn right tell me that they're mad it does indeed makes sense for them to feel rejected. I'd never ask for that seen to be take out. the way it was should indeed land you some rivalry points it was hash and anyone else would've reacted the same way. But next time please just give us one more broken heart thing so we can let the poor guys down easy! (PS Allen you rock +100:wizard:)

[Quicksilver26]

WhiteThunder wrote...

@Battlebloodmage, what I'm saying is that the characters shouldn't all be hero-sexual. Some SHOULD be gay, some should be straight, and some should be bi. There's no reason for there not to be gay characters like in ME3.

Can you give me one good reason why?
(and no realisms does not count)

[WhiteThunder]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...

Are you arguing that a person's "type" is just as hardwired as their sexuality?  Are you really arguing that?

 

yes absolutely yes! who I get along with as a person is vastly more important than their gender. and my getting along with them will in turn determine who i'll romance. 
Let's take Merill for example at first when I saw her and she was all bubbly and babbling I thought damn she is adorable can I keep her. after she did her blood magic thing I was completely replaced by her and would romance her even if she was the only bi option. Sometimes it's not the gender that matters it's the person and I think that is the point you all need to come to understand.  

Well, as a heterosexual, I've never been sexually attracted to any of my male friends; some of whom I am far closer to, and whose company I enjoy more than any girl I've ever been with. My gay friends are not attracted to me era of the opposite gender, no matter how much they enjoy their company. Love=/=romantic interest.  Claiming that everyone has a fluid sexuality is just as ignorant as claiming that everyone is straight.

[Battlebloodmage]

WhiteThunder wrote...

@Battlebloodmage, what I'm saying is that the characters shouldn't all be hero-sexual. Some SHOULD be gay, some should be straight, and some should be bi. There's no reason for there not to be gay characters like in ME3.

I'm just reiterating what some Bioware had stated. I'm pretty sure it was David Gaider. He said that he would want to do LI of different orientations, but there's limited resources to think about. Meaning that it's likely that there're only 2 LIs for each gender. It's also likely that if sexual orientation were added, one is straight and the other is bi. People who are gay would get the short end again. It would probably work with 3 LIs in which one is gay, one is bi, and the other is straight for each gender, but there's a high chance that there's only 2 LIs for each gender. I have a feeling that they would make everyone hero-sexual since they can't have the same fairness for everyone otherwise. At least, that's what I hope if there're only 2 LIs.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 30 octobre 2012 - 07:50 .

[Quicksilver26]

@WhiteThunder 
I never clamed that EVERYONE has a fluid sexuality. gonna quote The L Word here...

{Dana: [after seeing an exchange between Jenny and Marina] I thought Jenny was straight. Alice: Dana, most girls are straight until they're not. And then... sometimes they're gay 'til they're not. Shane: True, but there are also the ones that never look back. Right? And you can spot them coming a mile away. Dana: How can you tell? Alice: You read the signals. Dana: That's my problem. Shane: Dana, it's not a problem. Allright. Shane: [In response to Dana rolling her eyes] No. Sexuality is fluid, whether you're gay or you're straight or you're bisexual, you just go with the flow.}

And might I point out yet again that this a fantasy video game and it is all about the OPTIONS. 

Modifié par Quicksilver26, 30 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[esper]

WhiteThunder wrote...

Quicksilver26 wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...

Are you arguing that a person's "type" is just as hardwired as their sexuality?  Are you really arguing that?

 

yes absolutely yes! who I get along with as a person is vastly more important than their gender. and my getting along with them will in turn determine who i'll romance. 
Let's take Merill for example at first when I saw her and she was all bubbly and babbling I thought damn she is adorable can I keep her. after she did her blood magic thing I was completely replaced by her and would romance her even if she was the only bi option. Sometimes it's not the gender that matters it's the person and I think that is the point you all need to come to understand.  

Well, as a heterosexual, I've never been sexually attracted to any of my male friends; some of whom I am far closer to, and whose company I enjoy more than any girl I've ever been with. My gay friends are not attracted to me era of the opposite gender, no matter how much they enjoy their company. Love=/=romantic interest.  Claiming that everyone has a fluid sexuality is just as ignorant as claiming that everyone is straight.

Her point was (i think) that if we have gender restriction because of 'realism' then we should have other restriction in as well, because there are some woman that you are likely to never be attracted to either because there are other factors in who we are attracted too.

If we are restriciting with gender why not restrict with looks/personality/morality/political point of view.

It doesn't matter that I am bi in real life. If a person votes on a certain political party it is an instand turn off for me and I cannot not be romantically interested in them.

[Night Dreams]

I agree with the OP, and I don't think it should matter nearly as much if all characters are BI. Except for Anders, none of the characters really make that obvious anyway unless you're the first to 'make a move.' In all my games I recognised Fenris as straight, even if my male Hawke had the option of romancing him, I never did, and so never saw him as BI. It's quite simple really. Saying that, I hope future characters don't do what Anders does and that's make a move on anything that moves practically, as its pretty awkward for some people. I mean even Isabella doesn't straight out try to lunge for you if you're female. She is suggestive in some aspects sure, but she knows her place and there's no need to deny her of anything thus resulting in rivalry points.

Also, its, in my opinion, somewhat cruel to prevent homosexuals from receiving the same experience as any other player. I mean, imagine the complaints if a character was made gay only, rather than BI. There would no doubt be an uproar, but Bioware would simply assure the players they were trying to make the character more believable through this preference. No one would want such 'realistic' preferences in their characters then.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

There ought to be no LIs whatsoever in the next game.

I think that would satisfy all parties.

[Darth Krytie]

I agree with the OP. It seems really silly to make a big deal about the arbitrary sexuality of companions when you don't give them any other sort of nuance in their preferences. I think it's more likely a person to have personality conflicts with any given Protag than a sexuality conflict. Though, I truly believe everyone has someone they'll cross their sexuality fence for anyhow. If they have a fence at all.

[nightscrawl]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think want most people really want is just a neutral way to respond IE "Anders i think you are a very nice person but i'm just not into you" would have been 100% better then "I don't want you thinking that way" which made me want to slap my Hawke.

This is a reasonable request, in terms of wanting increased level of player agency.

Although I have no beef with Anders still taking this the wrong way and feeling rejected. Frankly to me it makes sense that sometimes characters would take innocuous things poorly. Plenty of opportunity to still become friends and see this as nothing more than a speedbump along the way.

There actually IS a neutral response, and that is the humorous (purple) option. Hawke says something along the lines of "Wow, I thought I had problems," after Anders goes through his whole deal about Justice. That avoids the problem of being nice (blue), which he takes as possible interest, or a total rejection (red). The benefit of this is also that you can leave the door open for yourself to pursue a romance in Act 2 if you want.

You can avoid flirting with both Anders and Fenris in Act 1 if you play it right. There is the possibility of that. However, discovering that might take more plays than some people are willing to do, especially after they have been turned off by what they consider is an unwanted come-on by an NPC, or being boxed into a corner by the game's dialogue options ("I don't want to be a dick to Anders, but neither do I want to romance him...")


I'll just add that when this thread was created, David Gaider's head finally exploded.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 octobre 2012 - 10:10 .

[SilentK]

Sylvianus wrote...

They already said and repeated they would go that route again.. They are all bi system will come back in DA3, so I don't really know why we are still arguing about that anyways.

Nobody will change its mind.

Really  

I loved the DA2-system. Didn't think that I would prefer it that way but after trying it in a game I much prefer it like this. Then it comes down to who this specific Hawke I'm playing at the moment reacts to each person.

Does anyone have a link? I've missed it completely.

[wright1978]

I had no problems with the DA2 system.

[Palipride47]

Knight of Dane wrote...

No they didn't Sylvianus, individual developers have said that him/her/they preferred the Mass Effect way of offering all kinds of sexuality but that the all bi path is a easier alternative that satisfies just as many people.

Except for the people who screamed "no ******!" when Anders got flirty.......

My forum tag tells you where I stand.

This is mostly because I hated having Leliana/Zevran be the ONLY choice, And no, heterosexuals didn't "only" have Alistair or Morrigan, they had 2 choices, because Zevran and Leliana still went for girls/ dudes respectively, even if it was "implied" they went more towards one way vs another. 

Does it seem shallow? Maybe, if you have never met a ""truly bi" person in your life (look up http://en.wikipedia....iki/Bisexuality and look up the Kinsey scale - I don't like Wikipedia for controversial social stuff but this page does have legitimate, scholarly citations)

Or you demand a VO and some computer stuff to live up to the exact same standards as real flesh people in preferences/personality/behavior. 

For the expansion of choice to include a population that has no real reason to be excluded, I see "all bi LI" as the easiest way to achieve this without making 10 LIs

Also, if you somehow still see this as a niche problem that doesn't need to be addressed, imagine that you wanted to play a heterosexual female and your only choice was some Studsly McGee that you hate to death. Or you wanted to play a heterosexual male and you've got a "girly-girl" or no girl. 

And this is the last time (I swear!) I will engage a thread like this.

nightscrawl wrote...

("I don't want to be a dick to Anders, but neither do I want to romance him...")

I'll just add that when this thread was created, David Gaider's head finally exploded.

Sorry Mr. Gaider, you've still got a year to go. And the LIs haven't even been announced yet, so pick up your head shards and recombine them (I suggest duct tape!)  

And does no one realize that Lady Hawkes ALSO had this problem. Wanting to give Anders a digital DA universe copy of "He's Just Not That Into You" was a pretty universal problem for Hawkes all over the rainbow (or not even on the rainbow, as my hetero, mage-hating femHawke can attest to) 

Modifié par Palipride47, 30 octobre 2012 - 12:49 .

[Maclimes]

Wow, ok. Hey. I obviously can't respond to 6 pages of comments. Let me sum up.

First, let me get this out of the way: I'm kind of surprised by how many people took direct problems with the samples I listed. That's just silly. They're examples, not fine-tuned character analysis. Maybe Cullen likes mages, too. I don't know. I was just using that as an example of the kind of things we could see.

And yes. In an IDEAL world, we would have dozens of LIs to choose from, all with their own preferences, types, and favorites. But this is not an ideal world. With limited resources, we can only have a limited number of LIs. I would prefer them to be flexible and accommodating to the most number of players, instead of limited.

[the_one_54321]

The fact of the matter is that every character that a love story written into the game is an available "choice" to everyone that plays the game. It's up to the player to create different characters that will experience different thing. This is the essence of replaying the game. The provides a world and you experience that world from different angles with multiple characters. When you play a dwarf, oh wait nit that, um... when you play a mage you get, crap not that either.... um well in DA:O when you played different kinds of characters you experienced different facets of the world.

[the_one_54321]

*The game provides

[Uccio]

My only problem with all Hawke sexual characters is that it seems to bend all romances to a carboard cut outs where they all follow the same pattern, flirt/flirt/flirt/kiss/shag/kiss. I want the romaces to be individual and differ from each another, and also have a specific impact on the storyline.

[nightscrawl]

Ukki wrote...

My only problem with all Hawke sexual characters is that it seems to bend all romances to a carboard cut outs where they all follow the same pattern, flirt/flirt/flirt/kiss/shag/kiss. I want the romaces to be individual and differ from each another, and also have a specific impact on the storyline.

They actually can be, depending on how you play out the conversations. I can only speak with regard to Anders and Fenris, but neither of them require a flirt in Act 1. The only must-have flirt is one in Act 2 before or during their Questioning Beliefs where the specific romance dialogue happens. When I romance Anders on a fem Hawke, I completely skip the flirting and the possible interest blue dialogue (I always pick the purple option so I don't have to hear the "I'll break your heart speil") and take my first flirt in Act 2, then I avoid the subject because none of the scenes following (Dissent quest and following dialogue) seem appropriate to me.

I do agree though that they generally do seem designed around a pattern of behavior. I also felt that the friend/rival system in DA2 went a long way toward making the romances feel different, even with the same person in a different play!

Unfortunately, I highly doubt they will make it have an "impact on the storyline," because they want romances to be optional. Even in DAO a romance with Alistair didn't have a great impact on the story, in that all of the things that can happen to him (king, Warden, drunk, death) as a romance can also happen as a friend.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 octobre 2012 - 06:16 .

[the_one_54321]

You know what would be cool? Having six or seven branches of conversation where two wandering paths in any dialog sequence could lead to starting/maintaining "romance" and 2 could have you end/avoid romance. Or insert any number greater than and never less than 6 or 2 where applicable.

I remember when conversations were diverse. And we'd play through a dialog string FIFTEEN times before we were happy what we said. Uphill. In the snow. And that's the way we liked it!

[Palipride47]

Ukki wrote...

My only problem with all Hawke sexual characters is that it seems to bend all romances to a carboard cut outs where they all follow the same pattern, flirt/flirt/flirt/kiss/shag/kiss. I want the romances to be individual and differ from each another, and also have a specific impact on the storyline.

In DA2:
Anders before you knife him (Friend) - I'll be a symbol to mages everywhere blah blah blah
Anders before you knife him (Friendmance) -  I'll be a symbol to mages everywhere blah blah blah but at least I got laid.

Surely there could be some differences in the game, or the romance, or whatever (perks or bonuses, like a new quest, a new option or something) that are less "surface" things but don't force preference for one or the other in a negative way, or even require romance. Something slightly less superficial than a few extra lines and a star option one companion quest for one LI. 

I dunno, it isn't really fair for those who don't want to romance anyone, and it isn't the point of Dragon Age (though it kinda has become one of the staples of Bioware games), but it would be cool, if say, romancing a templar gets you templar based perks (like being left alone moreso if you are a mage because your LI can be all "they're cool" to their templar friends), or having another way to solve a quest (i.e. sleeping with a templar makes fellow templars more likely to be friendly and answer questions/provide info)