200 réponses à ce sujet

[Sebby]

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Some here refuse to play TW(or any other game) if they can't play as a female self-insert(no joke).

[DreamwareStudio]

Seboist wrote...

Some here refuse to play TW(or any other game) if they can't play as a female self-insert(no joke).

Yes, I know, and then they complain about sexism when the above is in and of itself sexist.

[Genshie]

Seboist wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Some here refuse to play TW(or any other game) if they can't play as a female self-insert(no joke).

I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too. And I don't know where you have been in this topic but most people issues with Witcher 2 have been over the treatment and writing of the female characters. Not that you can't be a female Geralt.

[DreamwareStudio]

Rojahar wrote...

Bashing TW2 and saying Bioware has nothing to learn from it, because Geralt couldn't be a girl and didn't have meaningless dialog input in response to every line of dialog, is like saying Mass Effect had nothing to learn from other shooters because other shooters don't have sex scenes.

Very true. 

[Solmanian]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I haven't played The Witcher 2, but I've played the first game and thought it was average. Combat was terrible, no real player choices and Geralt wasn't much of a protagonist. I'd rather BioWare not try and copy that.

LOL, Bioware made the first witcher... Also remember that it was done almost a decade ago, so different standards... This was even before Mass effect, just after the last NWN expansion if I'm not mistaken. It also won a bunch of rpg of the year awards... Bioware invented the whole branching storylines in the first witcher that everyone telling them to learn from witcher 2... Gamers have such short memories...

[Genshie]

Rojahar wrote...

Its petty and unproductive to refuse to learn from or borrow good elements of a game just because you disliked certain other elements or are bitter because people speak more highly of it.

Both Bioware and CD have gone through with this already its just CD's turn. My issue with Witcher 2 mainly besides other minor issues is that the game is overhyped and is just pretty like Skyrim with a rising climax story that could very well fall in its resolution once it ends possibly in the future Witcher 3.

[DreamwareStudio]

Genshie wrote...

I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too. And I don't know where you have been in this topic but most people issues with Witcher 2 have been over the treatment and writing of the female characters. Not that you can't be a female Geralt.

Women play very important roles in the Witcher series, especially in TW 2 where there is not just sex but also love. What TW 2 protrays between Geralt and Triss is far from the teenage angst that you will see in the DA entries -- yes, that includes DA:O, a game of which I highly thought.

That said, does sexism still exist in TW 2? Yes, but that is because the world of TW 2 is gritty and dark and reflects much of our own medieval period in many regards...from those attitudes to brutality, racism, and more. That is one of the things I like most about the Witcher series...the reality of some very uncomfortable things. FYI, just because sexism is present in the game does not mean it celebrates sexism.

Too, I would not call Geralt stereotypical at all, though his conversation is bland.

Modifié par google_calasade, 30 octobre 2012 - 05:52 .

[mesmerizedish]

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Yes, I did. It was pretty much the worst game I played all of last year.

[DreamwareStudio]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Yes, I did. It was pretty much the worst game I played all of last year.

Yeah, okay, I call bull****, but to each their own. Cheers.

[WhiteThunder]

Genshie wrote...

Seboist wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Some here refuse to play TW(or any other game) if they can't play as a female self-insert(no joke).

I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too. And I don't know where you have been in this topic but most people issues with Witcher 2 have been over the treatment and writing of the female characters. Not that you can't be a female Geralt.

Is "outcast mutant monster hunter who can have a variety of core beliefs and can make wildly different decisions based on player choice" really a stereotypical videogame hero, or did you just see the ponytail, scars and two swords and decide that on your own?  And The Witcher games do contain well-written, powerful female characters that are far more than just sex objects for Geralt.  People who haven't played them just hear about the sex cards from the first one and write off the entire series as sexist.

[Sebby]

Genshie wrote...

I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too. And I don't know where you have been in this topic but most people issues with Witcher 2 have been over the treatment and writing of the female characters. Not that you can't be a female Geralt.

There's nothing "bland" about Geralt, he's a world weary cynic who the player can develop his motivations for his actions(unlike EAware's soulless mannequins like "rar rar smash reapaz" Shepard).

TW2's female characters such as Philippa Eilhart and Saskia are miles ahead of the likes of Miranda "daddy isues and have you check out my ass?" Lawson and overgrown manchildren like Merrill and Liara who are meant to cater to basement dwelling social inepts.

[Kileyan]

J. Reezy wrote...

Genshie wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm always interested to see the same people complain about autodialogue in ME 3, claiming it ruins RPGs, no decent RPG would ever use it, and that taking choice away from the player is the absolute worst thing a developer could ever do... and then blatantly shill the Witcher 2, a game full of autodialogue.

Geralt's autodialogue was never dumb stuff like "this isn't about tactics" or "the geth are better than this", though.

Also, he's a predefined character. That makes a difference.

This.

I don't see what is so great about it.

Cthulhu's comment, and by extension my "this", wasn't talking about how great it is. Just the fact that a predefined character having some auto-dialogue makes a difference compared to a character who was touted as being a personal avatar of sorts for the player.

THis:)

Really though, when people say Bioware should take a look at the Witcher, they usually talk about the choices and consquences within the same game, as opposed to Biowares take on trying to make the decisions matter 4 years and 2 sequels later in checklist email type ways. THey also talk about the much better environments and the living feel to the world. Those are obvious things that I can't imagine anyone would rail against Bioware doing a little better.

Bioware should take a look at The Witcher and Alpha Protocol on how to handle choices and consequences within the same game. You see when I say this, it isn't the time to start ranting about how buggy AP was, or how Witcher sexualize women too much. Bother are irrelevant, I didn't ask for them to have the designers of AP make DA3 nor did I ask for the designers of Witcher create the romances.

[mesmerizedish]

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Yes, I did. It was pretty much the worst game I played all of last year.

Yeah, okay, I call bull****, but to each their own. Cheers.

I'm so sorry to burst your self-induced positive feedback loop bubble. Not everyone liked The Witcher 2. What a shock.

[WhiteThunder]

Solmanian wrote...

LOL, Bioware made the first witcher...  

Huh?  Using the Bioware Aurora Engine=/=Made by Bioware.  That's like saying Mass Effect is made by Epic because it uses Unreal 3.

[Genshie]

google_calasade wrote...

Genshie wrote...

Seboist wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Some here refuse to play TW(or any other game) if they can't play as a female self-insert(no joke).

I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too. And I don't know where you have been in this topic but most people issues with Witcher 2 have been over the treatment and writing of the female characters. Not that you can't be a female Geralt.

If you had made the above statement about the treatment of women in regards to TW 1 I might have agreed with you, but women play very important roles in TW 2 and there is not just sex but also love. That said, does sexism still exist in TW 2? Yes, but that is because the world of TW 2 is gritty and dark and reflects much of our own medieval period in many regards...from those attitudes to brutality, racism, and more. That is one of the things I like most about the Witcher series...the reality of some very uncomfortable things. FYI, just because sexism is present in the game does not mean it celebrates sexism.

Too, I would not call Geralt sterotypical at all, though his conversation is bland.

You can still be reasonable about it. Make your point and move on and not constantly shove it in people's faces.  Geralt tough guy, doesn't say much, deep gruff voice, badass, boink all women, can't forget now that he has amnesia (very over played old hat video game trope that needs to die). How does that not say stereotypical video game hero?

[DreamwareStudio]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I'm so sorry to burst your self-induced positive feedback loop bubble. Not everyone liked The Witcher 2. What a shock.

Your pettiness burst nothing. To say you did not like TW 2, well, I can buy that. Not everyone did. To say it was the worst game you played last year when you played DA 2...yeah, I'll call bull**** on that.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Yes, I did. It was pretty much the worst game I played all of last year.

TW2 the worsest game ever? Are you kidding me? Maybe you don't get the mechanics. TW2 is not your average point and click kind of RPG. It has style, it has true RPG rules, you need a functioning brain to solve many of the quests. Quests that are not spoon-fed to you when you just walk around some random area.

[mesmerizedish]

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I'm so sorry to burst your self-induced positive feedback loop bubble. Not everyone liked The Witcher 2. What a shock.

Your pettiness burst nothing. To say you did not like TW 2, well, I can buy that. Not everyone did. To say it was the worst game you played last year when you played DA 2...yeah, I'll call bull**** on that.

I'm not being petty. I have legitimate issues with TW2.

But, this may come as another shock, but not everyone hated DAII. It was not the best game I played last year, but it was the best BioWare game since Baldur's Gate II.

[mesmerizedish]

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Yeah, let's have boring, f*ck-toy women, a That Guy protagonist, and a story that somehow manages to be less interesting than Dragon Age: Origins'.

I support this.

An uninteresting story? Toy women? A That Guy protagonist?

Did you really play TW 2?

I would guess ...

not.

Yes, I did. It was pretty much the worst game I played all of last year.

TW2 the worsest game ever? Are you kidding me? Maybe you don't get the mechanics. TW2 is not your average point and click kind of RPG. It has style, it has true RPG rules, you need a functioning brain to solve many of the quests. Quests that are not spoon-fed to you when you just walk around some random area.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[DreamwareStudio]

Genshie wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

If you had made the above statement about the treatment of women in regards to TW 1 I might have agreed with you, but women play very important roles in TW 2 and there is not just sex but also love. That said, does sexism still exist in TW 2? Yes, but that is because the world of TW 2 is gritty and dark and reflects much of our own medieval period in many regards...from those attitudes to brutality, racism, and more. That is one of the things I like most about the Witcher series...the reality of some very uncomfortable things. FYI, just because sexism is present in the game does not mean it celebrates sexism.

Too, I would not call Geralt sterotypical at all, though his conversation is bland.

You can still be reasonable about it. Make your point and move on and not constantly shove it in people's faces.  Geralt tough guy, doesn't say much, deep gruff voice, badass, boink all women, can't forget now that he has amnesia (very over played old hat video game trope that needs to die). How does that not say stereotypical video game hero?

The sexism is not constant, it's in certain situations. Same with racism and other social issues. BTW, in TW 2, he does not boink all women. He is faithful to Triss unless the gamer has him go see prostitutes and then I would say the promiscuity is on the player, not the PC.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Genshie wrote...






I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too.

This is simply incorrect. It is factually false. One who played the game would not say this. You may think him bland, but stereotypical he is not. He is a man trying to retain neutrality in a world where neutrality makes you an enemy. He is no white knight, no hero, but a simple witcher caught up in events that are far above his pay grade. He is a philosopher, a man whom has seen the worst of people, and is constantly ridiculed by people, despite his profession professing that he must protect these same people.

No. Geralt is a character that has not been ever before seen in video games. You're entitled to dislike him, but to degrade his character by putting forward factually false remarks just hurts your opinion.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 30 octobre 2012 - 06:00 .

[WhiteThunder]

Genshie wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

If you had made the above statement about the treatment of women in regards to TW 1 I might have agreed with you, but women play very important roles in TW 2 and there is not just sex but also love. That said, does sexism still exist in TW 2? Yes, but that is because the world of TW 2 is gritty and dark and reflects much of our own medieval period in many regards...from those attitudes to brutality, racism, and more. That is one of the things I like most about the Witcher series...the reality of some very uncomfortable things. FYI, just because sexism is present in the game does not mean it celebrates sexism.

Too, I would not call Geralt sterotypical at all, though his conversation is bland.

You can still be reasonable about it. Make your point and move on and not constantly shove it in people's faces.  Geralt tough guy, doesn't say much, deep gruff voice, badass, boink all women, can't forget now that he has amnesia (very over played old hat video game trope that needs to die). How does that not say stereotypical video game hero?

When it's a necessary part of the plot, gameplay and the engine of player choice.  

I mean, not every company can have as much variety in their master plots and use of archetypes as BioWare.  We all know that no one has made a chart detailing an almost identical situation and process that has occured in almost every BioWare game.  And that the only BioWare games that don't follow this imaginary chart are universally loved.

[Genshie]

Seboist wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I think you missed the point. Geralt is a very stereotypical hero of video-games. Very bland too. And I don't know where you have been in this topic but most people issues with Witcher 2 have been over the treatment and writing of the female characters. Not that you can't be a female Geralt.

There's nothing "bland" about Geralt, he's a world weary cynic who the player can develop his motivations for his actions(unlike EAware's soulless mannequins like "rar rar smash reapaz" Shepard).

TW2's female characters such as Philippa Eilhart and Saskia are miles ahead of the likes of Miranda "daddy isues and have you check out my ass?" Lawson and overgrown manchildren like Merrill and Liara who are meant to cater to basement dwelling social inepts.

I like both of those characters. And thats about it since most are there just for a quest and a screw.

[WhiteThunder]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

But, this may come as another shock, but not everyone hated DAII. It was not the best game I played last year, but it was the best BioWare game since Baldur's Gate II.

See, this is why he's calling bull****.  Because no one can say that unironically.