244 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


If you think we're just being arrogant and that we feel we never make mistakes, then you're just not paying attention.

Working in a corporate environement myself I also understand that you're not free to talk about everything that happens, is planned or went fubar without having clearance.

[The Elder King]

Killer3000ad wrote...

Allan, alot of fans were burned by ME3's ending and Bioware's response to the controversy. WHen Bioware heads called the criticism 'toxic' and said they would clarify the endings rather than change it this really burned alot of fans who really wanted the option for a happy ending or at least some way to invalidate the Catalyst. And when marketing released ads with lines like,"it's not the ending it's the journey" and touting "OVER 75 PERFECT SCORES!" well that drove alot of people over the line. To the fans who hated ME3's ending, it seemed like Bioware wasn't listening to them and the ads just seemed like a deliberate insult.
Remember alot of these people loved Bioware for years and pre-ordered their games with deep loyalty and expectations and the response they got felt like a betrayal of the highest order. Please understand how badly some people have been burned and why they lash out at anything a Bioware staff member says. Yes some of them have become really nasty nowadays but that's only because they feel like their loyalty to Bioware has been betrayed. They feel like they've been pushed into a corner and nothing short of an outright groveling apology will placate their anger.

While I agree with you that Bioware shouldn't have said that fans's criticism of ME3's ending was "toxic", and that the endings weren't exactly a masterpiece, I agree with them on not changing the endings.
Even after the EC, there are a lot of things about the final parts of the game that I don't like. I'm satisfied by the EC content because I think that Bioware made a decent job in clarifying and making different the endings. Still, they aren't masterpiece, and those aren't the ending I wasn't expecting from ME3, and I'm not talking about the fact that there weren't good endings, but the fact that the writing wasn't that good, in my opinion. I don't care what type of endings I get at the end of a game. As long as the endings are well-written, I'm fine (though I prefer a certain type of endings, the bittersweet, but I'd have been fine with either good and tragic endings, if they were well-made).
But I think that completely change the endings it's a thing I don't think developers should do. They choose the endings. No matter how big the criticism is, they shouldn't turn back to what they decided. In my opinion, they made the right choice.
Of course, Bioware should know (and I think they know it) that a lot of players will be pissed about the fact that they didn't change the endings, and that there might be problems in sales of their next game. They should work harder to make the people who were pissed interested again in a Bioware game.
As for myself, I have great problems withDA2 and ME3, and I have to consider if I'm going to buy DA3. But I'm willing to see if Bioware will make a game which I can enjoy greatly (I don't think ME3 and DA2 were completely bad games, but I didn't have the great enjoyment I had with the other Bioware games). If not, no problem, I'll not buy the game. But I'm not going to the BSN on ranting and insulting Bioware and their staffs and the people who enjoyed their games (I'm not saying that you did, but a lot of the people who detest DA2 and ME3 do).

[The Elder King]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If you think I'm just spending time here because
I'm just looking to make a buck, well it's pretty damned disheartening.

Would you do it for free?

His role isn't talking with the community or observing the forums. His role on the forum would be on the technical help forums, to respond to players that have problems in playing the game (bugs, glitches, etc). Talking with the community nearly every day as he's doing isn't a thing he has to do.

Modifié par hhh89, 04 novembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

If I look at ME3 then I see a lot of changes that were probably there because of user feedback. I think a lot of those changes were for the better. However, the (for me horrible) ending of ME3 obscured those and I tend to forget these changes were there. In DA2 changes based on feedback were present as well, but that game has more problems than just its ending. So, I don't think BW is not listening to feedback. They just make mistakes in key features of these games. If I compare DA:O to DA2 then DA:O had problems too, but these were generally obscured by a great game.

[Maria Caliban]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Would you do it for free?

He is doing it for free.

Do you really think BioWare pays its toolset developers to chat on the forums at 3am?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 novembre 2012 - 11:14 .

[Rixatrix]

Blair Brown wrote...
As for the story, I agree, people flock to our games and know us for that deep and rich story telling with interesting companions, and that will never change, our writing team is top notch.  Now if we can bring up all the other parts of our games (combat, immersion in the world, customization, graphics etc etc) to that level.. well now were talking about a truly amazing gaming experience. 

You just articulated, better and more succinctly than I ever could have, exactly what my hopes are for DA3.  I came for the companions and storytelling, and I'll stay to see those continue to develop and witness the improvement in combat, immersion, customization, graphics, etc. 

Please let this come true! 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Seriously, if this is the way you feel please just leave.  Reading crap like this just pisses me off and if you think I'm just spending time here because I'm just looking to make a buck, well it's pretty damned disheartening.  Poor attitudes indeed....

What you're doing with this post isn't criticism.  It's grinding an axe.  For all of our apparent failures to accept criticism, you've demonstrated a heck of an inability to get over it and move on.  Which is worse?  (Rhetorical question)

You thought I was saying that Bioware only cared about the money? I was thinking more along the lines of interactive movies instead of RPG's. I can see how you would jump to that conclusion, but let me assure you, that is not the case. I believe EA only cares about the bottom line and that's why I hate companies like them and Activision.

Me failing to get over it and move on, yeah, you're probably right. But Bioware was once my favorite game developer and I always trusted you guys to put out quality. I never hesitated to buy your games until ME2. Despite that game's high quality, it really wasn't an RPG.

DA:O restored my faith in Bioware. That was one of the best RPG's I"ve ever played. Then DA2 came out. Really bad game that seemed like it wasn't even made by Bioware. Mass Effect 3 seemed like it needed a lot more time in the oven and better writers, certainly not up to the quality of ME2.

Needless to say, I haven't been happy with the products you have guys have been putting out lately. That doesn't mean that I just want to just forget about Bioware and move on. I want to get back to when I could look at one of your games sitting on a shelf and know that it's a quality game and I should pay full price for it instead of just waiting until it hits bargain bin price.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:27 .

[Rune-Chan]

slimgrin wrote...

At every step they deny doing anything poorly, that they ever screw up. Judging from the their response to criticism, it's the fans at fault not them. They've exhibited zero humility. As my old art teacher used to say, there's no remedy for that type of attitude only repeating past mistakes. So expect more DA2 and ME3. 

You say "they" as if Bioware is some kind of hive mind.

Yes, some of the "higher ups" have had a rather condescending and insulting view on those that criticise their games. Normally the response involves telling everybody that all the websites liked the games very much, and that they sold a lot of copies, but there are a lot of employees who do sincerely care about feedback, and are not just trying to do some good PR.

The ones who frequently respond on these forums are a great example of that. Sure, Gaidar can sometimes be a moody so-and-so, but it's not surprising considering some of the crap people come out with on here. These are people who have spent thousands of hours working on a game, only to get flak from everything people do not like, as well as people complaining about the most ridiculous things.

Do not get me wrong, there have been some rather glaring flaws in the last few releases. They are not necessarily (or even likely) the fault of the people who spend their free time responding to and discussing the games with us though, so people should really try showing some more courtesy.

The people who deserve the complaints are the ones pushing the teams to get the games out of the door quickly to maximise profit, not the teams working their asses off trying to make it as good as they can.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[abaris]

Machines Are Us wrote...

You say "they" as if Bioware is some kind of hive mind.

As with every big company being part of an even bigger company, they are indeed part of a hive mind. And that isn't meant as criticism, but as a simple fact. They're obviously free to talk about some things, but I would be highly surprised if there aren't limits to that freedom, especially when it comes to mistakes and resulting business decisions.

[Josielyn]

Dear Writers/Developers: Don't quit on us. Please do impact our minds with some never-before-seen awesomeness and this too shall pass. Only a fool does not learn from their mistakes, and I do not believe a single one of you is a fool. Far from it, in fact, to be capable of creating something that the rest of us only dream about and lack the skill to replicate.
Folks, the Writers and Devs have acknowledged so many times in other threads the things that did not work out so well in past games, it should be evident by now. I'll continue to search for input from those fans who were fortunate enough to be able to attend some of the conferences to fill the rest of us in about exciting things to come for DA3 in order to drown out some of the tedious and unoriginal negativity. If all we do is criticize, then after awhile it falls on deaf ears.

[Shadow Fox]

Speaking of ME3's ending did the dev team actually receieve death threats over it? I've heard they did.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Well, this thread took a turn for the worst. Not surprised though.

[Reofeir]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Speaking of ME3's ending did the dev team actually receieve death threats over it? I've heard they did.

As this is the internet, yes. 

[PinkDiamondstl]

Troll thread....

[Killer3000ad]

Death threats over ME3? That's new, i was on the BSN nearly everyday for months between release and EC and I never heard of death threats.

[Shadow Fox]

Zenor wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Speaking of ME3's ending did the dev team actually receieve death threats over it? I've heard they did.

As this is the internet, yes. 

No I mean people actually posting it on their twitter accounts.

[Darth Death]

Josielyn wrote...
If all we do is criticize, then after awhile it falls on deaf ears.

Peoples' attention should be more directed towards DA3 than the negativity. People have good reason to be negative, that cannot be argued enough, nor should anyone attempt to change or ridicule how those individuals feel. DA3 will be the ultimate test to see how fans will perceive BioWare, and honestly, there's no better test than that. Words are meaningless unless there's action behind them. I'll wait for DA3 until then.  

[Shadow Fox]

Darth Death wrote...

Josielyn wrote...
If all we do is criticize, then after awhile it falls on deaf ears.

Peoples' attention should be more directed towards DA3 than the negativity. People have good reason to be negative, that cannot be argued enough, nor should anyone attempt to change or ridicule how those individuals feel. DA3 will be the ultimate test to see how fans will perceive BioWare, and honestly, there's no better test than that. Words are meaningless unless there's action behind them. I'll wait for DA3 until then.  

until they're next game that is.

[WhiteThunder]

Urazz wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...

Everyone else wrote...

*SNIP*

Blair Brown wrote...
That's what we're all working for,   I want to be able to rave about it to my friends too! 

I agree with the combat points you brought up, for an RPG I prefer more "utility" as you put it, than a pure DPS system.  As for the story, I agree, people flock to our games and know us for that deep and rich story telling with interesting companions, and that will never change, our writing team is top notch.  Now if we can bring up all the other parts of our games (combat, immersion in the world, customization, graphics etc etc) to that level.. well now were talking about a truly amazing gaming experience. 

So when you hear dave or someone else say "mike is focusing on 'x' feature right now" don't think other things are getting left behind, it's quite the opposite, it means were bringing 'x' feature up to the next level 

Well, DA: O was that for me, (except for maybe the graphics, but graphics are just a bonus anyway).  The reason I get annoyed/disheartened/a-hole-ish when I talk about DA2 is because they significantly worsened the story, combat, immersion, customization and art-style of DA: O.  DA: O was a truly amazing gaming experience.  DA2 was solidly mediocre. (I wouldn't say bad, EpicBoot2TheFace).  BG2 didn't take a hacksaw to Baldur's Gate, it built upon it and created one of the best RPGs of all time.  Has anyone other than Rich McCormick said that DA2 was better than DA: O?  Some have said it was different, but not worse.  I haven't seen a single other PC reviewer write that it was better.  It scored an 8 on post-Gerstmann Gamespot, for God's sake.  That's the equivalent of a C.

The reason why some people say DA2 was different but not better than DA:O was because they did certain things better than the other.  Personally, I think you rate DA:O too high.  Sure it was a great game and all but it wasn't a truly amazing gaming experience.  Nor was DA2 mediocre.  I think the big thing that made DA2 different but not worse than DA:O was the flaws it had (reusuable maps, bad handling of mobs, rushed ending, etc).  If DA2 didn't have those flaws, then it would've definately scored as well as DA:O or even better.

I didn't mind the re-used maps that much.  Mass Effect used them and it was fine.  The flaws of DA2 were significantly worse than "reusuable maps, bad handling of mobs, rushed ending, etc."  Add "bad gameplay, linear story, passive protagonist, lack of customization."

"If DA2 didn't have those flaws, then it would've definately scored as well as DA:O or even better"

Really?  If DA2 wasn't significantly more flawed than DA:O, it would have been better received?  Enlightening.

[John Epler]

I think we're done here.