244 réponses à ce sujet

[Bernhardtbr]

2015? Really? That´s a pretty long time. Is it official information?

[Maria Caliban]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

2015? Really? That´s a pretty long time. Is it official information?

No.

[Palipride47]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

There seems to be a lot of negitivity on these forums, whether true or not, thats what it looks like from a dev's perspective.  People are assuming that we arn't trying to make an amazing game or something, I really don't know.

People aren't assuming you're not trying to make an amazing game, people are losing confidence you're still capable of doing it. 

You shouldn't be discouraged by the negativity from your fan base, in fact just the opposit.  It should drive you to do even better then ever before, to prove it all wrong.

 Most people don't enjoy being cynical.  Its not something you chose to feel any more then itchiness after a hair cut.  Its irritating and unwanted.  It feels cold and dirty, while hope feels warm and clean. Truth is nothing would please us more then to not feel it anymore.  And yes, if DA3 is a great success with no big polarizing issue, a lot of that cynicism will whisk away.  

Decent person, meet the internet.
Internet, show this person what you are best at doing. 

Some of us (including me) want the bestest game ever from a company they really enjoyed,  and got burned with DA2 but are still willing to risk their money on Bioware's ideas and vision to make an awesome game that maybe doesn't fulfill every expectation or meet your particular criteria for an awesome game but that still is worth playing. They (including me) criticize out of fear and love. 

Others are waiting for people to be angry about the new game and scream "IT SUX" so they can say with smug righteousness that DA and Bioware is "dead" and go play Project Eternity or Baldur's Gate while gleefully jerking each other off with sweet whispers of being the only "true" RPGers, a dying master race fighting the good fight against Call Of Duty and Farmville. They criticize because it inflates their egos. 

It is getting really hard on this forum (and sometimes I feel like I occasionally fall in the "smug righteousness" camp) to tell one from the other, especially since all they may see are people assuming that game developers (at least, the ones who work on the game) go in with their white Persian cats and high backed chairs, trying to milk the cash for every poor fan and laugh as they count their money while sipping the tears of their fans in diamond encrusted goblets that are worth the GDP of several nations. 

[The Night Haunter]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

2015? Really? That´s a pretty long time. Is it official information?

No.

Just a little joke

If it doesnt come out til 2015 it will be an amazing game (lots of dev time yay) but we will die of anticipation.

Just joking that since we haven't seen anything about the game at all and my personal experience is that RPGs take up to 3 years (generally 2) after showing a pre-alpha build off to make it to production that we could be in for a wait

[Palipride47]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

2015? Really? That´s a pretty long time. Is it official information?

No.

Just a little joke

If it doesnt come out til 2015 it will be an amazing game (lots of dev time yay) but we will die of anticipation.

Just joking that since we haven't seen anything about the game at all and my personal experience is that RPGs take up to 3 years (generally 2) after showing a pre-alpha build off to make it to production that we could be in for a wait

Try saying that to Duken Nuken fans, with preorder receipts since the 90's har har har

Modifié par Palipride47, 30 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .

[zsom]

Palipride47 wrote...
...
Others are waiting for people to be angry about the new game and scream "IT SUX" so they can say with smug righteousness that DA and Bioware is "dead" and go play Project Eternity or Baldur's Gate while gleefully jerking each other off with sweet whispers of being the only "true" RPGers, a dying master race fighting the good fight against Call Of Duty and Farmville. They criticize because it inflates their egos. 
...

So effin true! It seems this crowd is getting bigger and bigger as the original fans of the BG series are getting older. I can't wait for the first "In my time they used to make decent RPGs not  corridor shooter crap" comment here on the forum. I don't think it will be long now...

[The Elder King]

Palipride47 wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...



Just a little joke

If it doesnt come out til 2015 it will be an amazing game (lots of dev time yay) but we will die of anticipation.

Try saying that to Duken Nuken fans, with preorder receipts since the 90's 

If DA3 would be released in 2015, it'll have a 4-year development cycle. It's not even comparable to Duke Nuken.
Regardless, I think it was confirmed that the game will be released in fall 2013.

[Morty Smith]

zsom wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...
...
Others are waiting for people to be angry about the new game and scream "IT SUX" so they can say with smug righteousness that DA and Bioware is "dead" and go play Project Eternity or Baldur's Gate while gleefully jerking each other off with sweet whispers of being the only "true" RPGers, a dying master race fighting the good fight against Call Of Duty and Farmville. They criticize because it inflates their egos. 
...

So effin true! It seems this crowd is getting bigger and bigger as the original fans of the BG series are getting older. I can't wait for the first "In my time they used to make decent RPGs not  corridor shooter crap" comment here on the forum. I don't think it will be long now...

People pointing at people who point at stuff. I just wanted to point that out.

<3

[Farbautisonn]

Blair Brown wrote...

It seems like what you want from us is "the game" or atleast a detailed list of all the features, story plots, artwork, videos etc etc to prove its a good game... which we can't do at this time.

We can't say more than what has already been released in Marks Blog, as well as the few tidbits that are said in twitter feeds or at con's, etc.

Not so. I just want to know what you have learned from the experience with the previous games.

If what has already been stated doesnt dispell your concerns, then sorry, you will have to wait for the announce and eventual release of the game before that will happen.

I will do so.

There seems to be a lot of negitivity on these forums, whether true or not, thats what it looks like from a dev's perspective.  People are assuming that we arn't trying to make an amazing game or something, I really don't know.

As for the first bit, yes there is. However if you do not mind my saying so, some of it is warrented. If we didnt care, we would just leave. Some of us still cling desperately to a sliver of hope for what used to be the benchmark gaming company in Storytelling.

And no. I do not think people are assuming that you are NOT trying. I think people (some old timer fans such as myself)  assume you focus on things that are counterproductive or hasnt proven to be very well integrateable to the storytelling. That the focus for Bioware has shifted from Storytelling to Action. Nothing wrong with action. Its just not what Bioware was built on. I would very much like to endorse a higher focus on storytelling. 

What I can say for fact, (I don't know if it will quell anyones concerns or not) is that walking down these halls, seeing the passion, and excitement everyone has for this game, the extra hours, hard work, and effort that is being put into it... Sends chills up my spine sometimes. 

I undestand and I am very glad that you feel that way. However You must realize that I have heard that before. I heard it with DA2, the DLC and with ME3. And the result was really not what I had come to expect. I hope you will not hold that sentiment against me. I do sincerely wish you and the rest of the writing/dev team the very best of luck and good times in making this game. But please. Keep the focus on storytelling. Its what made you. Not the multiplayer or the action. Not the graphics or the engine. 

It's going to be an amazing game and we can't wait to share it with our fans, who are just as passionate as us.

I sincerely hope so. I would love to buy another bioware game. I would love that my sceptizism and my mistrust would be put to utter shame. I love the storytelling. I just do not think that the warnings from DA2 and the DA:O DLC were heeded when it came to telling the story for ME3. I would sincerely hope that player concerns played a bigger role.

You have lots of stallwart fans. Most of whom remain here on the boards are very much stallwart fans. Fanatically so for some of them. But some of us have followed you since before Baldurs Gate. Some of us have bought your games 3 times over because we wore the disks down. Some of us recommended you to friends, relatives and were near fanatical in our devotion to your games. We preordered them the second they were announced. And some of us feel you let us down. That the storytelling got shafted for nice animations and glitzy console glamour. Thats where the negativity stems from. Thats the open sore that reeks putrid malice. You may not feel its justified, and it might not be. But its how some of the fanbase feels. We could move on. But we hope. A fools hope perhaps, but we do hope.

Anyway. Thanks for replying to the topic. I wish you and the rest of the team best of luck.

[Farbautisonn]

Foolsfolly wrote...

But I don't think that explains it enough. Your title is rather aggressive. Like they're a pet and you're rubbing their nose in their mess and asking them what did you learn?

Ofcourse its aggressive. I was dissapointed with the DA:O DLC, the Bazaar debacle, the Deception fiasco, DA2, ME3s utter failiure in delivering on coherent storytelling. I dont like being taken for granted or for an idiot. If I wasnt aggressive in my title It would not convey how I feel. Dissapointed.  So ofcourse I rub their nose in it. They have to do better and be more consistant. They can, because they did great before, so I know they can do it again. If they choose to cater to action, multiplayer, microtransactions, rehashing old designs in DLC etc, then I can presume they learned nothing.

Secondly I believe their response should be DA3 itself. If that game fails you then you have your answer. If it's a return to form than you know what they've learned. Hearing these guys talk about things are nice but ultimately their products speak more for them and their direction.

Sure their response should be DA3. However asking me to buy it up front or to have a "postive" or "endorsing" mindset about it, given the recent track record is a bit... "Optimistic" I think is a good word. And well, if DA3 turns out to be "more of the same" then I will leave for greener pastures and Bioware wont have to worry about me posting "malicious threads" on their boards. I wont care enough to do so. But untill then I will reserve the right to go over every word and every news release with a toothpick trying to discern if they are trying to blow smoke up my hinie and up the hinie of other fans like me. And to some that will seem very aggressive indeed.

[Rudy Lis]

Sorry for bursting into this thread without invitation, but I find it very difficult to not to.

Blair Brown wrote...

There seems to be a lot of negitivity on these forums, whether true or not, thats what it looks like from a dev's perspective.

And you think negativity is not well deserved? You, personally. Of course, if your regulations and contract allows you to say your opinion; your PR staff will spew all that "protocol nonsense" on us on their own, so no need to add to their chaos otherwise.

Blair Brown wrote...

People are assuming that we arn't trying to make an amazing game or something, I really don't know.

"You're only as good as your last shift." 
Do I need to note that it far from perfect? Before someone grab his pitchfork and yells "speak for yerself", let me clarify (since it seems to be a highly popular trend in your recent endeavors, "to clarify") - I won't put "IMHO" or "my subjective opinion", because everything I say is my IMHO and my subjective opinion, unless it placed into quotes and thus is the quite. For most cases - in some it's just to put emphasis.

Blair Brown wrote...

What I can say for fact, (I don't know if it will quell anyones concerns or not) is that walking down these halls, seeing the passion, and excitement everyone has for this game, the extra hours, hard work, and effort that is being put into it... Sends chills up my spine sometimes.  

Ooh, I heard that before. And read. And seen. Many times, in fact. Okay, maybe not exactly in those words, but by leitmotif. Seeing recent results, I find them harder and harder to believe. Lay off your tar and pitchfork, not just yours words, but everywhere, regardless of industry.

I wonder, if most people fail to deliver something epic and it all ends as crap, maybe they should concentrate on delivering crap and save time, resources and efforts?

Blair Brown wrote...

It's going to be an amazing game and we can't wait to share it with our fans, who are just as passionate as us.

And I think I heard that as well.
Let me ask you something. "Amazing" in which department? By great profits it will brings? By "75 perfect scores"? By popularity it'll leave afterwards, so even in Ghost in the Shell side by side comparison you'll find comment like "green on the left, red on the right, let's add blue and we'll got ME3"?

[Realmzmaster]

Unfortunately negativity always rears it head on the BSN. As far responding to the OP Bioware does not have to respond. The developers do not have to come to this forum to say squat. Bioware does not have to say if they learned anything. The gamer has the choice to buy or not buy the product. Very few industries go around telling people about the product before it is ready.
I for one liked DA2 and did not find it to be a failure. I am as old school as you can get when it comes to crpgs. I was not disappointed. I had fun.

Bioware simply needs to make a great game and not look backwards at BG, DAO or anything else. Those games had their faults. If Bioware keep looking back DAO would not exist.

Each individual is entitled to their opinion. No one on this forum is entitled to any answers outside of those that the developer wishes to reveal. I for one am happy with the show don't tell method. It cuts down on unrealistic expectations. Also keeps gamers from howling if a feature or features gets cut.
Any lessons learned will be found in the final product. I will risk the pre-order for DA3 because I have not been disappointed.

[WhiteThunder]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Also the actual point of your post is rather silly, if you were an author and wrote a book that got amazing reviews then wrote a second book that you poured your heart and soul into and it ended up with mixed/negative reviews you certainly wouldn't just shake it off and say 'Let's do better!'. You'd be sad cause people are meanies (I would be anyway).

But anyway we'll see what has been learned when DA3 finally hits shelves in 2015....

I've been cut from teams after working my a** off, and my exact reaction, both times, was "eff that, I'm gonna prove you wrong next year."  Being sad doesn't help anything.  A hearty dose of cold anger, however, does.

[WhiteThunder]

EntropicAngel wrote...
I personally hope they learned that while DA ][ was a step in the wrong direction, it was better than anything else that came out that year outside of Skyrim.

please, stop dealing in opinions, people, because they're subjective.

So, DA ][ was better than Shogun 2, Portal 2, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex: HR, FIFA 12, Dark Souls, Arkham City, Battlefield 3 and Skyward Sword.  Really?

[WhiteThunder]

EntropicAngel wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...

So, DA ][ was better than Shogun 2, Portal 2, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex: HR, FIFA 12, Dark Souls, Arkham City, Battlefield 3 and Skyward Sword.  Really?

1. I'm not a Real War fan, myself. A friend of mine is, but I'm not.

2. Portal 2? Definitely, for more than one reason, but mostly because it wasn't a freaking six hours. Portal 2 was amazing, but a six hour game is absolutely, under any circumstance, unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.

3. TW2--please, don't even mention that. I bought TW (the first) this year and didn't even finish it, the mediocre combat and the bang-literally-every-type-of-female-in-the-game-but-the-head-prostitute thing was just too much to get over.

4. Deus Ex, was very good. But I prefer role-playing games myself, not FPSes.

5. Don't play sports games. At. All.

6. Don't play hack-and-slash games (outside of DMC4, and that was because of the story), especially not simply because "it's hard."

7. Adventure game, interesting, but i'm not a Batman fan and, once again, not an RPG and a story I really couldn't get behind.

8. Battlefield--I don't play FPSes. Ever. The last FPS I played was Deus Ex. The last real FPS I played was MOH: Allied Assault.

9. I don't even know what that game is. Heard of it.

You're missing the point, aren't you? The point is: The majority of what you "take" from a game is subjective.

That list is subjective. Mine...and yours.

I too prefer RPGs, that's why I prefer DE to DA2 :innocent:.  And The Witcher being worse than DA2 does not mean that TW2 is worse than DA2.  Skyward Sword was the new Zelda game, it's pretty damn good, IMO.   Dark Souls was an A-RPG, not a hack and slash game, but I get what you're saying.

But yeah, I see your point, de gustibus non est disputandum and all that jazz.

[legbamel]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Maclimes wrote...
Watch one of the panels they did, in which the lead developers specifically mention the lessons they learned from previous games, especially DA2.

Here's the PAX Panel: 

And here's another small panel from the NYCC:

There. OP's question actually answered.

Nope. Not answered. What I got out of that was alot of noncommital "Might" and "watch us". Whilst I really and truely appreciate the latter bit, its not reassuring given the recent history. I simply do not trust Bioware to deliver, despite their wellmeaning words.

I know that the DA3 team isnt = the ME3 team, and that they cannot be "held accountable" for ME3. But... They delivered DA2. They delivered rehashed level designs and (in my opinion) not very well thought out DLC for DA:O and a DA2 that was not really what alot of DA:O afficionados were looking for.   [snip for length]

Personally, the DLC for both DA:O and DA2 were wonderful additions to the game.  (I can only presume that you're considering DA: A as DLC).  In fact, the DLC for the second game rescued it from its flaws, for me.  If Legacy is the direction in which they're going I'm actually quite excited to see what happens.

[HK-90210]

Blair Brown wrote...

It seems like what you want from us is "the game" or atleast a detailed list of all the features, story plots, artwork, videos etc etc to prove its a good game... which we can't do at this time.

We can't say more than what has already been released in Marks Blog, as well as the few tidbits that are said in twitter feeds or at con's, etc.

If what has already been stated doesnt dispell your concerns, then sorry, you will have to wait for the announce and eventual release of the game before that will happen.

There seems to be a lot of negitivity on these forums, whether true or not, thats what it looks like from a dev's perspective.  People are assuming that we arn't trying to make an amazing game or something, I really don't know.

What I can say for fact, (I don't know if it will quell anyones concerns or not) is that walking down these halls, seeing the passion, and excitement everyone has for this game, the extra hours, hard work, and effort that is being put into it... Sends chills up my spine sometimes.  

It's going to be an amazing game and we can't wait to share it with our fans, who are just as passionate as us.

When the first information about DA2 was released, I was, along with a great deal of the fanbase, apprehensive.  Some of what I heard was good, some of it made me nervous about the future of the franchise. When DA2 was released, that was pretty much my reaction to the finished product. I liked some things, others I disliked.

In your subsequent DLCs, I saw how you guys had listened to your fanbase's critisism. Your constant interactions with your fans, your willingness to admit that there were flaws with DA2 impressed the hell out of me.

So I'll say this about what you guys have revealed about DA:3 so far: Everything I hear makes me more and more excited for this game. DA2 and ME3 have both been underwhelming to your fanbase, so if DA3 can truly be a return to form for Bioware, then I think this fanbase will be ready for it. We may seem hypercritical(well, OK, we are), but for most of us, this comes from a heart that is as devoted to your games as you yourselves are(never underestimate the devotion of a passionate fan). We WANT your game to be good.

So reveal what you can, when you can. We''ll be waiting to provide (premature)praise and (premature)critisism as that's pretty much all we can do. We're very judgmental, fickle, contradictory creatures. Almost unlovable, in a way.  But we do love your games. That's got to count for something, right?

[WhiteThunder]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would argue that "leveling up" and skill selection does not an RPG make, but that's beside the point.

Yeah, Dark Souls' RPG-ness is pretty borderline, but there are some choices as well.

[SafetyShattered]

Palipride47 wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

2015? Really? That´s a pretty long time. Is it official information?

No.

Just a little joke

If it doesnt come out til 2015 it will be an amazing game (lots of dev time yay) but we will die of anticipation.

Just joking that since we haven't seen anything about the game at all and my personal experience is that RPGs take up to 3 years (generally 2) after showing a pre-alpha build off to make it to production that we could be in for a wait

Try saying that to Duken Nuken fans, with preorder receipts since the 90's har har har

Agh! Just when I started to forget that game you reminded me...........why'd you have to do that? That game was freaking torture...

[WhiteThunder]

legbamel wrote...

Personally, the DLC for both DA:O and DA2 were wonderful additions to the game.  (I can only presume that you're considering DA: A as DLC).  In fact, the DLC for the second game rescued it from its flaws, for me.  If Legacy is the direction in which they're going I'm actually quite excited to see what happens.

DA: A was an expansion pack.  Not DLC.  It was sold in a box.

[naughty99]

Blair Brown wrote...

If what has already been stated doesnt dispell your concerns, then sorry, you will have to wait for the announce and eventual release of the game before that will happen.

Dragon Age III still hasn't been officially announced? 

Blair Brown wrote...
There seems to be a lot of negitivity on these forums, whether true or not, thats what it looks like from a dev's perspective.  People are assuming that we arn't trying to make an amazing game or something, I really don't know.

What I can say for fact, (I don't know if it will quell anyones concerns or not) is that walking down these halls, seeing the passion, and excitement everyone has for this game, the extra hours, hard work, and effort that is being put into it... Sends chills up my spine sometimes.  

It's going to be an amazing game and we can't wait to share it with our fans, who are just as passionate as us.

Thanks for sharing your excitement with us - there may be a lot of negativity, but there are also a lot of us who are looking forward to the game and excited about some of the details we've learned so far.

Hope we get a chance to try the demo at Comic Con next year! 

[Babaganoosh013]

Shadowfang12 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

2015? Really? That´s a pretty long time. Is it official information?

No.

Just a little joke

If it doesnt come out til 2015 it will be an amazing game (lots of dev time yay) but we will die of anticipation.

Just joking that since we haven't seen anything about the game at all and my personal experience is that RPGs take up to 3 years (generally 2) after showing a pre-alpha build off to make it to production that we could be in for a wait

Try saying that to Duken Nuken fans, with preorder receipts since the 90's har har har

Agh! Just when I started to forget that game you reminded me...........why'd you have to do that? That game was freaking torture...

You would think somewhere around year 4 or 5, someone would go: "Hey, why don't we try putting the entire game on paper first, and then code it."