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[CosmicGnosis]

Let's look at some pictures. All three slides are exclusive to the Synthesis ending.


"... to recover the greatness that was lost... and surpass it."


"We will reclaim our worlds... and the stars."


"... taking our first steps into a new and wonderful future, where organics and synthetics can coexist peacefully."

BSN, I want you to be absolutely clear with me. Do the majority of you believe that these slides should not be taken literally? That is, the slide are illusions, exaggerations, half-truths, etc.? There is absolutely nothing good about these slides? Is there something sinister or deceptive about them? The krogan really don't rebuild and improve their civilization? The quarians and geth really don't willingly coexist and rebuild Rannoch together?

No matter what we see or hear, Synthesis is a deception?


Update: I want to add another image:



Synthesis sure is evil, right?

By the way, maskless quarians and the krogan renaissance are really important to me. I also agree with the notion that access to knowledge can lead to increased understanding and empathy.

I also believe that our destiny lies beyond our humanity. Remember, we were not always humans. Life on Earth is billions of years old. Our distant ancestors were not humans at all. Here is a post I recently submitted in a different thread:

How is our "humanity" lost in Synthesis? Adding synthetic parts to your body no longer makes you human?

Also, your 200 millionth great-grandparents were fish. Yeah, humans evolved from fish. Guess we lost our "fishiness"? Evolution allows species to evolve into new species. So if humans wish to "evolve", we're gonna have to "lose our humanity" eventually.

Just some things to think about.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 06 janvier 2013 - 10:10 .

[CronoDragoon]

Is this aimed at something in particular? Like the belief that Synthesis is nothing but Reaper Indoctrination?

[CosmicGnosis]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Is this aimed at something in particular? Like the belief that Synthesis is nothing but Reaper Indoctrination?

Not exactly, but many people simply don't trust Synthesis. They suspect that there is something fundamentally twisted about it, and that it can't possibly be as good as it seems.

[ghost9191]

well what? hey geth and quarians were rebuilding rannoch just fine without synthesis. well till i sent those synthetic bast*rds to hell with their gods

but i am with crono. you saying you agree with IT or is this sarcasm?

oh and agree. nothing is perfect . and al lot of the novels and sh*t that you read about futures, utopias almost always turn out to be dystopias

Modifié par ghost9191, 30 octobre 2012 - 08:11 .

[CosmicGnosis]

ghost9191 wrote...

but i am with crono. you saying you agree with IT or is this sarcasm?

It's not sarcasm. I really want to understand what BSN thinks about those slides. I want to settle on a canon ending, and I think Synthesis has some very appealing characteristics. However, it's the most hated of the three main choices, and many people have stated that they don't trust the choice.

[CINCTuchanka]

It is just thematically inconsistent.

We spend 3 games getting to know various races of organics and synthetics. Despite their differences and histories the point is that life fights for a right to a future.

Synthesis subverts this theme by asserting that further though not total, physiological homogeneity (i.e. green circuits or whatever) is the surest way to peace. At best this is silly, at worst it is unsettling in a "body horror to prevent race war" way.

[CronoDragoon]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Not exactly, but many people simply don't trust Synthesis. They suspect that there is something fundamentally twisted about it, and that it can't possibly be as good as it seems.

Well, those are two different beliefs. First, you can believe that the means are fundamentally twisted, and also believe the end result is fundamentally twisted, or one but not the other. You can also believe that the end result will not be as utopic as depicted. I personally have a hard time swallowing that Synthesis would produce peace as it seemingly does. Nor do I believe the Reapers will suddenly be this benevolent race that, despite being grossly overpowering in their technology and sheer force, will decide against empire.

As for the first belief, I believe it's valid to see it as twisted or see it as a positive evolution.

[StarcloudSWG]

Simply put, everything in the Synthesis epilogue is about what Edi *hopes* will happen in the future.

These hopes are likely to not come to pass. The Catalyst is still in control. Non-Synthesized Life or non-Synthesized AI could and probably will arise; the Reaping will begin again once something disrupts the Reaper mind-control network necessary to eliminate conflict.

The Quarians and the Geth are *already* on a path to cooperatively rebuild Rannoch. Neither Control nor Synthesis is necessary for that outcome. And the only reason it wouldn't happen in Destroy is because the writers realized that without artificially inserting a downside to Destroy, nearly every player would pick it because the other two choices are abhorrent.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 30 octobre 2012 - 08:25 .

[Obadiah]

I think the slides are to be taken literally.

There will probably still be disputes and wars in the future though.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I am not denying that synthesis is the most "happy rainbows" ending.

The fact that synthesis is the "happy rainbows" ending is what I find repulsive.

[Wayning_Star]

OP, folks don't like what they cannot understand. The story doens't do a fair job of explanation either. Cut scenes only make it seem more unreal. Fantasy, to realist conceptulizers. Others don't like it cause they cannot actually 'choose' any choice. They're all pre made, by nature or the writers, anyone/thing that'll take the heat..lol

[Cribbian]

Lizardviking wrote...

I am not denying that synthesis is the most "happy rainbows" ending.

The fact that synthesis is the "happy rainbows" ending is what I find repulsive.

[Fixers0]

"Together, we can build a future greater than any one of us could imagine"

So what makes synthesis special?

Modifié par Fixers0, 30 octobre 2012 - 08:30 .

[Wayning_Star]

Fixers0 wrote...



"Together, we can build a future greater than any one of us could imagine"

So what makes synthesis special?

I heard that the techy reaper types will return again, or in the least, the chaos. But it's only in the codex entries..

[LilLino]

Synthesis is forced union. Not one forced by blood, tears and love, but one forced by brutal logic from creatures that sought our destruction and killed millions of innocents.

This 'peace' in Synthesis isn't real, it's created, whatever made us different from machines is gone in that ending. You find that nice, I find that repulsive and counter-creative.

[Fixers0]

Wayning_Star wrote...

I heard that the techy reaper types will return again, or in the least, the chaos. But it's only in the codex entries..

We've got the appropriate tools to keep them at bay.

[blueumi]

no one had a say in it and it was what the reapers the bad guys wanted

instead of showing how good different life is it makes us all the same takes away the things that make being organic good

shepard did not have the right nore did the reapers to change us all and so control or destroy are the only things shepard should haev a say on

[ghost9191]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

*snip*

"Together, we can build a future greater than any one of us could imagine"

So what makes synthesis special?

I heard that the techy reaper types will return again, or in the least, the chaos. But it's only in the codex entries..

did i miss a codex entry? i don't recall one about the options

[Malanek]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Is this aimed at something in particular? Like the belief that Synthesis is nothing but Reaper Indoctrination?

Not exactly, but many people simply don't trust Synthesis. They suspect that there is something fundamentally twisted about it, and that it can't possibly be as good as it seems.

People can interpret it how they want. The narator, Hacket, has been synthesised so it is his perspective on it. Even if you take those slides as outside the narators perspective, there is nothing in there to suggest there isn't some form of massive perception altering going on. At the same time there is no evidence to suggest that there is.

Personally I don't like synthesis. I would still prefer that everything that is rebuilt is actually earned by the people rebuilding it. Civilisation should be built on the civillians accomplishments. Evolution, even technological evolution, is a natural process and should stay that way. That and the science behind synthesis was just too bats**t crazy for me. Having said all that, there are no facts presented in the ending or epilogue that state synthesis is bad, in fact I got the impression the writers tried to push it as the best outcome.

[blueumi]

im glad we don't all agree thats what makes being organic good that we all see things in a different way and thats what synthesis would take from life sound like hell sounds like tranquility which takes the minds of all mages not a good thing at all

[Ieldra]

Obadiah wrote...
I think the slides are to be taken literally.

There will probably still be disputes and wars in the future though.

Indeed. It is a golden age, but no real golden age is without its flaws. The slides just present a generally bright future, it's not meant to be interpreted as a universally bright one. It's presented that way, just like the other endings, because the way BSN works, those would be picked up in order to "prove" that it's the absolutely worst thing anyone could ever choose.

Not that the absense of downsides prevents that. Now people just claim the slides are illusionary. For some people, anything, really anything goes in order to not have to accept that Synthesis is a good ending. "Synthesis is bad" is the dogma, and the reasons are interpreted or plainly made up to make it so.

The slides are meant to convey that the endings - all of them - are good endings. That whatever you choose, if you have a high EMS ending there will be some kind of bright future for the galaxy (Renegade Control may be an exception). Synthesis has some extra slides that detail specific benefits the Synthesis will bring. Bioware presents this in the usual heavy-handed manner, and I'm beginning to understand why - see above.

Synthesis is a good ending. Not everyone's best ending of course, but a good and valid one, however problematic the means to achieve it might have been. There is no necessary connection between the morality of the means and the outcome. For anything. Ever. Really, people need to accept that.

Edit:
About the "earned" benefits? By whose standards? Who determines if, or when, something is "earned"? This kind of thinking is Protestant work ethic, it's very specific to a certain cultural substream of the western hemisphere. Why the hell is it less acceptable to get the same benefits as a gift?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 octobre 2012 - 08:59 .

[Ledgend1221]

Screw science! Lets make CYBORGS!

[Andretzli_nar_Mile]

Synthesis was the star child's ideal solution to solving the conflict between synthetics and organics, it's a hard to grasp concept but as everyone seems to be getting along better than ever due to their upgrades

[blueumi]

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]Obadiah wrote...

Synthesis is a good ending. Not everyone's best ending of course, but a good and valid one, however problematic the means to achieve it might have been. There is no necessary connection between the morality of the means and the outcome. For anything. Ever. Really, people need to accept that.
[/quote]

no we fought to get rid of slavery for women to vote morals are what took us past base animals  it is the thing that shows the reapers are bad and need to be stopped

I WILL NEVER ACCEPT SYNTHESIS

star child just said we can't keep our form because he wont let us but destroy them and we could and would keep our form

synthesis is not inevitable that is just bull