214 réponses à ce sujet

[xAmilli0n]

Argolas wrote...

You can either consider them slaves or tools, your choice, but they do not fit any definition of life that I am aware of.

I assume you mean in the context of Control.  Because I know many of the Synthesis supporters would disagree with that statment.

Edit:  Actually, since you probably don't support Synthesis, this would probably apply to all endings yes?

@CosmicGnosis

Do you think the Reapers are alive?  Or are they simply husks, abominations of their former selves, like the Collectors?

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:58 .

[Argolas]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Argolas wrote...

You can either consider them slaves or tools, your choice, but they do not fit any definition of life that I am aware of.

I assume you mean in the context of Control.  Because I know many of the Synthesis supporters would disagree with that statment.

Edit:  Actually, since you probably don't support Synthesis, this would probably apply to all endings yes?

In the Control context, yes, although I do not see what changes the reapers in Synthesis. They already are organic/synthetic hybrids.

[xAmilli0n]

Argolas wrote...

In the Control context, yes, although I do not see what changes the reapers in Synthesis. They already are organic/synthetic hybrids.

Yeah, thats what I figured, hence my edit.  I'm no supporter of Synthesis, so I can't really comment and how that works, because honestly I have no clue.

[Eterna]

Argolas wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Because the stupid Extended Cut declares that Shepard will act as a guardian. Therefore, he is guaranteed to interfere with galactic events. It turns him into a dictator. And no matter what I try to headcanon, people will always remember how the EC depicts Control.

This is exactly my core problem with Control. Let me headcanon that Holoshep will fly all Reapers into the nearest sun, and Control is (almost) the perfect ending. The reaper threat is gone for good, and nobody except Shepard has to die.
The EC does not let me headcanon that, and thus Destroy is my only way.

That being said, a question about the "catalyst" related to this:

It claims to help us and allows us to control or destroy the reapers.

Well, it already DOES control the reapers. So if it offers Destroy, why the hell can't we just tell it to destroy the reapers itself?

"I can not make them happen."

Bulls**t! It can't use the crucible, all right, but of course it can destroy the reapers, and without killing all our synthetic friends!

It may reinforce the idea that the Catalyst was a shackled AI. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 31 octobre 2012 - 06:04 .

[Argolas]

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Because the stupid Extended Cut declares that Shepard will act as a guardian. Therefore, he is guaranteed to interfere with galactic events. It turns him into a dictator. And no matter what I try to headcanon, people will always remember how the EC depicts Control.

This is exactly my core problem with Control. Let me headcanon that Holoshep will fly all Reapers into the nearest sun, and Control is (almost) the perfect ending. The reaper threat is gone for good, and nobody except Shepard has to die.
The EC does not let me headcanon that, and thus Destroy is my only way.

That being said, a question about the "catalyst" related to this:

It claims to help us and allows us to control or destroy the reapers.

Well, it already DOES control the reapers. So if it offers Destroy, why the hell can't we just tell it to destroy the reapers itself?

"I can not make them happen."

Bulls**t! It can't use the crucible, all right, but of course it can destroy the reapers, and without killing all our synthetic friends!

It may reinforce the idea that the Catalyst was a shackled AI. 

There were no Reapers when it was created and shackled. Don't tell me it can create them, but its shackles forbid it to destroy them, but allows it to let others destroy them.

Where's the sense?

[Samtheman63]

lol, control

[Eterna]

Argolas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Because the stupid Extended Cut declares that Shepard will act as a guardian. Therefore, he is guaranteed to interfere with galactic events. It turns him into a dictator. And no matter what I try to headcanon, people will always remember how the EC depicts Control.

This is exactly my core problem with Control. Let me headcanon that Holoshep will fly all Reapers into the nearest sun, and Control is (almost) the perfect ending. The reaper threat is gone for good, and nobody except Shepard has to die.
The EC does not let me headcanon that, and thus Destroy is my only way.

That being said, a question about the "catalyst" related to this:

It claims to help us and allows us to control or destroy the reapers.

Well, it already DOES control the reapers. So if it offers Destroy, why the hell can't we just tell it to destroy the reapers itself?

"I can not make them happen."

Bulls**t! It can't use the crucible, all right, but of course it can destroy the reapers, and without killing all our synthetic friends!

It may reinforce the idea that the Catalyst was a shackled AI. 

There were no Reapers when it was created and shackled. Don't tell me it can create them, but its shackles forbid it to destroy them, but allows it to let others destroy them.

Where's the sense?

The catalyst doesn't promote Destroy, it is not a solution to it's problem, it's just a temporary band aid. It can create Reapers because it ultimately helps it achieve it's goal, it can't Destroy them itself because by doing so it invalidates its own purpose.

 It can offer the option because the crucible changed some of its programming. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 31 octobre 2012 - 06:36 .

[jijeebo]

Wise choice my man.

Control ftw. xD

[Samtheman63]

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Because the stupid Extended Cut declares that Shepard will act as a guardian. Therefore, he is guaranteed to interfere with galactic events. It turns him into a dictator. And no matter what I try to headcanon, people will always remember how the EC depicts Control.

This is exactly my core problem with Control. Let me headcanon that Holoshep will fly all Reapers into the nearest sun, and Control is (almost) the perfect ending. The reaper threat is gone for good, and nobody except Shepard has to die.
The EC does not let me headcanon that, and thus Destroy is my only way.

That being said, a question about the "catalyst" related to this:

It claims to help us and allows us to control or destroy the reapers.

Well, it already DOES control the reapers. So if it offers Destroy, why the hell can't we just tell it to destroy the reapers itself?

"I can not make them happen."

Bulls**t! It can't use the crucible, all right, but of course it can destroy the reapers, and without killing all our synthetic friends!

It may reinforce the idea that the Catalyst was a shackled AI. 

There were no Reapers when it was created and shackled. Don't tell me it can create them, but its shackles forbid it to destroy them, but allows it to let others destroy them.

Where's the sense?

The catalyst doesn't promote Destroy, it is not a solution to it's problem, it's just a temporary band aid. It can create Reapers because it ultimately helps him achieve his goal, it can't Destroy them itself because by doing so it invalidates its own purpose.

 It can offer the option because the crucible changed some of its programming. 

the crucible is just power source according to the prothean VI and the catalyst himself, how can that change his programming? 

something doesn't add up...

[Eterna]

Samtheman63 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Because the stupid Extended Cut declares that Shepard will act as a guardian. Therefore, he is guaranteed to interfere with galactic events. It turns him into a dictator. And no matter what I try to headcanon, people will always remember how the EC depicts Control.

This is exactly my core problem with Control. Let me headcanon that Holoshep will fly all Reapers into the nearest sun, and Control is (almost) the perfect ending. The reaper threat is gone for good, and nobody except Shepard has to die.
The EC does not let me headcanon that, and thus Destroy is my only way.

That being said, a question about the "catalyst" related to this:

It claims to help us and allows us to control or destroy the reapers.

Well, it already DOES control the reapers. So if it offers Destroy, why the hell can't we just tell it to destroy the reapers itself?

"I can not make them happen."

Bulls**t! It can't use the crucible, all right, but of course it can destroy the reapers, and without killing all our synthetic friends!

It may reinforce the idea that the Catalyst was a shackled AI. 

There were no Reapers when it was created and shackled. Don't tell me it can create them, but its shackles forbid it to destroy them, but allows it to let others destroy them.

Where's the sense?

The catalyst doesn't promote Destroy, it is not a solution to it's problem, it's just a temporary band aid. It can create Reapers because it ultimately helps him achieve his goal, it can't Destroy them itself because by doing so it invalidates its own purpose.

 It can offer the option because the crucible changed some of its programming. 

the crucible is just power source according to the prothean VI and the catalyst himself, how can that change his programming? 

something doesn't add up...

"the crucible changed me, created new possibilities" 

[Samtheman63]

Eterna5 wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Because the stupid Extended Cut declares that Shepard will act as a guardian. Therefore, he is guaranteed to interfere with galactic events. It turns him into a dictator. And no matter what I try to headcanon, people will always remember how the EC depicts Control.

This is exactly my core problem with Control. Let me headcanon that Holoshep will fly all Reapers into the nearest sun, and Control is (almost) the perfect ending. The reaper threat is gone for good, and nobody except Shepard has to die.
The EC does not let me headcanon that, and thus Destroy is my only way.

That being said, a question about the "catalyst" related to this:

It claims to help us and allows us to control or destroy the reapers.

Well, it already DOES control the reapers. So if it offers Destroy, why the hell can't we just tell it to destroy the reapers itself?

"I can not make them happen."

Bulls**t! It can't use the crucible, all right, but of course it can destroy the reapers, and without killing all our synthetic friends!

It may reinforce the idea that the Catalyst was a shackled AI. 

There were no Reapers when it was created and shackled. Don't tell me it can create them, but its shackles forbid it to destroy them, but allows it to let others destroy them.

Where's the sense?

The catalyst doesn't promote Destroy, it is not a solution to it's problem, it's just a temporary band aid. It can create Reapers because it ultimately helps him achieve his goal, it can't Destroy them itself because by doing so it invalidates its own purpose.

 It can offer the option because the crucible changed some of its programming. 

the crucible is just power source according to the prothean VI and the catalyst himself, how can that change his programming? 

something doesn't add up...

"the crucible changed me, created new possibilities" 

"the device you refer to as the crucible is little more than a power source"

[Eterna]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

You are Shepard,  Reaper God!

I prefer this: http://youtu.be/vo9AH4vG2wA

You are now imaging Admiral Hackett singing this. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 31 octobre 2012 - 06:53 .

[Little Princess Peach]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I cannot abide by a dictator ruling the galaxy. I don't care how good and righteous he is, he's a dictator with an army of death machines to enforce his will. My love of free will will not stand for it.

I know. I hate it, too. But I refuse to alter all beings against their will, and I refuse to obliterate synthetic life. Believe me, my Shepard will rarely use his power.

In fact, if my Shepard determines that he simply can't protect the galaxy without violating the galaxy's self-determination, he may just become a wandering cosmic entity. Something will have to be done with the Reapers themselves. They will probably be restored and left to rejoin the galaxy.

Afterward, Shepard will just leave the galaxy for all time, destined to wander the universe forever.

you do realise that the shepardo reaper might loose control one day and come up with the same sadistic responces as the original casper kid?, all that power and knowlage he/she no longer thinks like an organic, the machine parts have there own way of understanding shepardos will and it could end up being totally diffrent to what shepard wanted

[Argolas]

Samtheman63 wrote...

something doesn't add up...

Just that. But that's reaper kid, after all.

[Eterna]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I cannot abide by a dictator ruling the galaxy. I don't care how good and righteous he is, he's a dictator with an army of death machines to enforce his will. My love of free will will not stand for it.

I know. I hate it, too. But I refuse to alter all beings against their will, and I refuse to obliterate synthetic life. Believe me, my Shepard will rarely use his power.

In fact, if my Shepard determines that he simply can't protect the galaxy without violating the galaxy's self-determination, he may just become a wandering cosmic entity. Something will have to be done with the Reapers themselves. They will probably be restored and left to rejoin the galaxy.

Afterward, Shepard will just leave the galaxy for all time, destined to wander the universe forever.

you do realise that the shepardo reaper might loose control one day and come up with the same sadistic responces as the original casper kid?, all that power and knowlage he/she no longer thinks like an organic, the machine parts have there own way of understanding shepardos will and it could end up being totally diffrent to what shepard wanted

The old man and his Granchild seem fine in the stargazer scene 50000 years in the future. 

[AxStapleton]

I like the fact that you've put a lot of thought into it. I may not personally agree with you but you gave each ending a serious chance so no real criticism from me.

[IElitePredatorI]

No! Im in control!

[Argolas]

Eterna5 wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I cannot abide by a dictator ruling the galaxy. I don't care how good and righteous he is, he's a dictator with an army of death machines to enforce his will. My love of free will will not stand for it.

I know. I hate it, too. But I refuse to alter all beings against their will, and I refuse to obliterate synthetic life. Believe me, my Shepard will rarely use his power.

In fact, if my Shepard determines that he simply can't protect the galaxy without violating the galaxy's self-determination, he may just become a wandering cosmic entity. Something will have to be done with the Reapers themselves. They will probably be restored and left to rejoin the galaxy.

Afterward, Shepard will just leave the galaxy for all time, destined to wander the universe forever.

you do realise that the shepardo reaper might loose control one day and come up with the same sadistic responces as the original casper kid?, all that power and knowlage he/she no longer thinks like an organic, the machine parts have there own way of understanding shepardos will and it could end up being totally diffrent to what shepard wanted

The old man and his Granchild seem fine in the stargazer scene 50000 years in the future. 

And how long is 50k years to a reaper or a Leviathan?

[jijeebo]

IElitePredatorI wrote...

No! Im in control!

That's it, my headcanon now either includes the constuction of a 6ft tall reaper or a 2km tall Garrus-bot.

... I'm not sure which is more awesome tbh.

[Eterna]

Argolas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I cannot abide by a dictator ruling the galaxy. I don't care how good and righteous he is, he's a dictator with an army of death machines to enforce his will. My love of free will will not stand for it.

I know. I hate it, too. But I refuse to alter all beings against their will, and I refuse to obliterate synthetic life. Believe me, my Shepard will rarely use his power.

In fact, if my Shepard determines that he simply can't protect the galaxy without violating the galaxy's self-determination, he may just become a wandering cosmic entity. Something will have to be done with the Reapers themselves. They will probably be restored and left to rejoin the galaxy.

Afterward, Shepard will just leave the galaxy for all time, destined to wander the universe forever.

you do realise that the shepardo reaper might loose control one day and come up with the same sadistic responces as the original casper kid?, all that power and knowlage he/she no longer thinks like an organic, the machine parts have there own way of understanding shepardos will and it could end up being totally diffrent to what shepard wanted

The old man and his Granchild seem fine in the stargazer scene 50000 years in the future. 

And how long is 50k years to a reaper or a Leviathan?

Does it matter? 

[ghost9191]

your choice , but you did choose wrong :innocent:

do disagree with the synthesis theme being best because control is

oh and i might have missed it but what do you mean "forbidden knowledge"?

oh and if by "I" you mean the your shepard., that shep is dead, but in killing self created a ai based on memories and such , but dead , that is a pet peeve. shep is dead in control. well somewhat , "are we more then are thoughts" i think so but whatever. experiences and such , oh and it does say that it is not shep

Modifié par ghost9191, 31 octobre 2012 - 07:29 .

[Little Princess Peach]

Eterna5 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I cannot abide by a dictator ruling the galaxy. I don't care how good and righteous he is, he's a dictator with an army of death machines to enforce his will. My love of free will will not stand for it.

I know. I hate it, too. But I refuse to alter all beings against their will, and I refuse to obliterate synthetic life. Believe me, my Shepard will rarely use his power.

In fact, if my Shepard determines that he simply can't protect the galaxy without violating the galaxy's self-determination, he may just become a wandering cosmic entity. Something will have to be done with the Reapers themselves. They will probably be restored and left to rejoin the galaxy.

Afterward, Shepard will just leave the galaxy for all time, destined to wander the universe forever.

you do realise that the shepardo reaper might loose control one day and come up with the same sadistic responces as the original casper kid?, all that power and knowlage he/she no longer thinks like an organic, the machine parts have there own way of understanding shepardos will and it could end up being totally diffrent to what shepard wanted

The old man and his Granchild seem fine in the stargazer scene 50000 years in the future. 

And how long is 50k years to a reaper or a Leviathan?

Does it matter? 

yeah it kinda dose, for us it could be 50k years for the reapers could be five minutes

[AxStapleton]

Eterna5 wrote...

The old man and his Granchild seem fine in the stargazer scene 50000 years in the future. 

To be honest, anyone can head-canon what goes on after each ending.

For example:

Destroy: Stereotypical happy ending (minus Synthetics dying) and Galaxy returns to some form of normality or Synthetics in the future utterly wipe out Organics or Cycle restarts on its own.

Control: Reapers (under Shepard AI) act as silent guardians for the rest of eternity or Shepard AI (having come to the same conclusion as the Catalyst over millions of years) decides that the cycle will always be necerssary and decides to continue it.

Synthesis: Everyone ascends to find the true meaning of peace and civilisation advances beyond recognition or Synthesis only manages to end conflict between Organics and Synthetics with issues arrising when they meet non-synthesised organics (perhaps in another Galaxy?).

(These are only ideas that came off the top of my head)

Modifié par AxStapleton, 31 octobre 2012 - 07:32 .