354 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Okay, I think most people here will agree that ME1 and 2 had awesome endings.  Both peaked in emotional/gameplay intensity during the final battle, and both paid off with a resounding victory that, despite hard decisions and potentially massive losses, left the players feeling good about themselves.  The minute players go through the Conduit/Omega 4 Relay, all bets are off, and right up until the final scene they're not sure whether they'e going to make it out alive.  When Shepard finally stands up triumphant, players get to have a well-deserved "F* YEAH!" moment.

It's a tried and true way to cap off a game, a cliche players love.

But a beloved cliche is still a cliche.  Bioware wanted to try something new.  However, was that ultimately the best choice?  Was it really a good idea to kill off the adrenaline in the final confrontation?  Is it really appropriate for Shepard to decide the ultimate fate of the galaxy while standing next to a glowing ghost boy with soft, dreamy music playing in the background?  Is it a good thing to deny players the critical "F* YEAH!", and instead bog them down with hazy uncertancies and morally ambiguous decisions that, no matter what they choose, have the potential to make them feel like a monster?

Is it really a good idea to not leave players feeling pumped as hell and good about themselves after investing hundreds of hours (and dollars!) into a series?  Isn't this the one time you'd want to go with the "F* YEAH!" moment, even if it is a bit cliche?

I suppose the ending we got would have been an interesting conclusion in a different game (LIKE DEUS EX MAYBE JUST SAYIN), but Mass Effect had already laid out a clear template so far as what players should expect.  It was a noble experiment, Bioware, but a failed one.

Sorry, but we (or I, at least) wanted the "F* YEAH!".

Good try, though.  And thanks for the EC.  I may still wangst about it, but it helped.

PS: Sorry if this thread is incoherent but I'm hella tired.

[CosmicGnosis]

I kind of like what they tried to do with the ending, but I don't like that every choice makes you feel like a monster. It makes everyone assume the worst of every ending.

[AdmiralCheez]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Well yeah, that plus it was terribly-written.

The Human Reaper wasn't exactly quality, either.  This is less about literary finesse and more about feelings.

@CG: Yeah, the endings are interesting IN THEORY, but I think there'd be a lot lest wangst if ME3 had ended with a scene of Shepard punching Harbinger in the face set to awesome music.  Far less intellectual, but again it's all about feelings.  Same thing with the kid, really: as a symbol, he's a good idea.  However, said symbol is worthless if the audience doesn't FEEL anything, and ZOMG NOT THE CHILDREN is not enough when it comes to emotional investment.

I'm saying all of this as a person who appreciates intellectual/artsy stuff.  As someone who took a bunch of literature and art history courses, it's impossible for me not to.  My argument here is that said intellectual/artsy stuff is as out of place in Mass Effect's finale as a graphic decapitation in an episode of Blue's Clues.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:18 .

[Syroel13]

I think that Bioware has to make a reason why the reapers did what they do. But they just went about it the wrong path. They cleaned it up exceptionally well with the EC and Leviathan, but it does seem out of place.

It would have been better if it was simply reapers think they are the dominant species and want all organic life destroyed to keep it that way.

[SNascimento]

 I think Bioware made the right choice with ME3's ending..People don't like it because the finality of it. .

fi·nal·i·ty/fīˈnalətē/

Noun:

The fact or impression of being an irreversible ending: "the finality of death".
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And by ending, I mean only what happens after your pick your choice. The starkid is another matter. What I'm sure is, if after your choice you had an ending more in tone with the exntended cut and a reunion with your LI, ME3's ending disater would NEVER have happened.
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There would be people complaining about the starkid, space magic and plot holes, but this guys exist ever since ME2. Actually, ME2 have a lot of this criticisms, but nonetheless is regarded as the best in the trilogy by the majority. 

Modifié par SNascimento, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:19 .

[Malanek]

Yeah, a "F*ck Yeah" moment would have been safer. I don't think you need to go down that path though. Lots of different problems with the ending all added up for me. It felt emotionally flat and I would've quite happily settled for a good cry instead of a "F*ck Yeah" moment. Instead nothing. And the whole thing with the crucible being the solution to everything didn't help. Nor did the Normandy crash scene which I couldn't understand at all.

The EC did help a bit. If it had been in the original game I don't think I would've had a problem with the ending. But it wasn't, and playing something for the second time doesn't have quite the same immersion. And then there was the indoctrination theory. For a while (until dev comments were made) I was convinced by it, anticipating the real ending was still to come. Convinced that I had been tricked and the real ending was going to be the greatest ending in the history of video games. Expectations can be a drag.

[Binary_Helix 1]

I've said the same thing repeatedly. The ME trilogy is a cliche ridden action blockbuster without a proper triumphant guns blazing ending. When you try to be something you aren't you fail much like ME3. The lesson here is stick to your strengths.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:22 .

[Legion of 1337]

The original ending was EA's fault.

Now that we actually know what the ending is, it's not really bad except for the giant plot hole that's been there the whole time (the Crucible). But because people hated it in the first place, they got picky and didn't like the ending regardless, though I will admit that a Deus Ex ending often doesn't work outside Deus Ex, which a lot of games don't understand and ME didn't.

[AdmiralCheez]

SNascimento wrote...

 I think Bioware made the right choice with ME3's ending..People don't like it because the finality of it.

I don't actually mind the finality.  In fact, I was totally expecting "an end, once and for all" (lol soundtrack).

What I didn't like is how the ending was devoid of punchy-shooty action-suspense.  Also, it made me feel like a jerk.

[CosmicGnosis]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

My argument here is that said intellectual/artsy stuff is as out of place in Mass Effect's finale as a graphic decapitation in an episode of Blue's Clues.

That's rather... extreme.

[AdmiralCheez]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

That's rather... extreme.

THE MOST EXTREME!!!  URRRRAAAGGGGHHH!!!

@Cthulu42: Yep.  Tone.  There's the word.

@Binary_Helix 1: Never got a chance to read one of your comments on the matter.  However, I'm glad you agree.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:28 .

[SNascimento]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

 I think Bioware made the right choice with ME3's ending..People don't like it because the finality of it.

I don't actually mind the finality.  In fact, I was totally expecting "an end, once and for all" (lol soundtrack).

What I didn't like is how the ending was devoid of punchy-shooty action-suspense.  Also, it made me feel like a jerk.

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I don't either, but doesn't mean it wasn't the main cause of the internet uproar. 

[AdmiralCheez]

SNascimento wrote...

I don't either, but doesn't mean it wasn't the main cause of the internet uproar.

Nahhhh.  Finality is okay if it leaves you feeling pumped and awesome, even if it's a sad goodbye (you can have both!).  When you drain the player of their enthusiasm and then make them feel like a jerk, there's no incentive to boot it up and play again.  All that investment feels hollow.

[SNascimento]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

I don't either, but doesn't mean it wasn't the main cause of the internet uproar.

Nahhhh.  Finality is okay if it leaves you feeling pumped and awesome, even if it's a sad goodbye (you can have both!).  When you drain the player of their enthusiasm and then make them feel like a jerk, there's no incentive to boot it up and play again.  All that investment feels hollow.

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No, that is the finality as it is. When you die, do you think you are going to feel awesome and pumped afterwards? No, because that is the end, it's final.
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ME3's ending feels like the death of your story, of shepard story. That is what I mean by finality.

[Zazzerka]

SNascimento wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

I don't either, but doesn't mean it wasn't the main cause of the internet uproar.

Nahhhh.  Finality is okay if it leaves you feeling pumped and awesome, even if it's a sad goodbye (you can have both!).  When you drain the player of their enthusiasm and then make them feel like a jerk, there's no incentive to boot it up and play again.  All that investment feels hollow.

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No, that is the finality as it is. When you die, do you think you are going to feel awesome and pumped afterwards? No, because that is the end, it's final.
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ME3's ending feels like the death of your story, of shepard story. That is what I mean by finality.

For a story to die, it doesn't need to end in a literal death, just sayin'.

[Asch Lavigne]

I was mostly confused by the ending. Leviathan made one aspect of it even more confusing:
Organics fighting Synthetics (and vise versa) = Bad
Organics fighting Organics = Ok
The Leviathans are weird.

[SNascimento]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

I don't either, but doesn't mean it wasn't the main cause of the internet uproar.

Nahhhh.  Finality is okay if it leaves you feeling pumped and awesome, even if it's a sad goodbye (you can have both!).  When you drain the player of their enthusiasm and then make them feel like a jerk, there's no incentive to boot it up and play again.  All that investment feels hollow.

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No, that is the finality as it is. When you die, do you think you are going to feel awesome and pumped afterwards? No, because that is the end, it's final.
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ME3's ending feels like the death of your story, of shepard story. That is what I mean by finality.

For a story to die, it doesn't need to end in a literal death, just sayin'.

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I don't understand. Are you saying for a story to die Shepard doesn't have to actually die? Because if that's the case, I would agree. And this is actually evident in ME3, as in one of the endings Shepard survives, but the feeling of finality still the same. 

[hiraeth]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nahhhh.  Finality is okay if it leaves you feeling pumped and awesome, even if it's a sad goodbye (you can have both!).  When you drain the player of their enthusiasm and then make them feel like a jerk, there's no incentive to boot it up and play again.  All that investment feels hollow.

yeah good point- i felt like a jerk too regardless of what i picked. control made me feel like a jerk because...well, i'm basically arrogant enough to think that i can do what nobody else in the ME universe could do...all because a ghost toddler told me i could do it. picking synthesis made me feel like a jerk for forcing everyone to alter their DNA...all because a ghost toddler told me humanity was "ready" to do it. destroy made me feel like a jerk because i was wiping out synthetic life. refuse made me feel like a jerk because "the cycle continues."

i wanted to throw my controller at the TV in complete and utter irritation.

[Sanunes]

I don't mind Shepard dying, I was expecting it all along, but I would have liked him to have died differently then hanging onto electrodes, jumping into an acid wash, or being blown up by a large capacitor.

At the same time I really don't consider either Mass Effect 1 or Mass Effect 2 to have an ending, for in Mass Effect 1, Shepard just walks back to the Normandy and flies away and in Mass Effect 2 you get to pick between blowing up the Collector base or saving it, but nothing really changes. I think as a whole that has always been BioWare's weakness is their endings have always been on the weaker side.

Modifié par Sanunes, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:45 .

[AdmiralCheez]

SNascimento wrote...

No, that is the finality as it is. When you die, do you think you are going to feel awesome and pumped afterwards? No, because that is the end, it's final.
.
ME3's ending feels like the death of your story, of shepard story. That is what I mean by finality.

Death of the hero is okay so long as it is an epic, worthy, and meaningful death.  I was actually prepped for Shepard to die.

Provided I get to go out like this.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:46 .

[TenmaTaro]

ME3 made it painfully obvious that BW was just making it up as they went along.

[Chala]

For me, there are 2 things that made the ending not a failure (Is this sentence well written?):

1° Dat song! Imma a guy who pays a lot to attention to the music, so my attention was focused on that piano instead of the stuff that was happening on the screen, same thing with the Catalyst.

2° I had my F*ck yeah:
"So, I'm going to die because I'm sorrounded by jerks that never listen to what I say... I'll **** everything that moves!" So I ran, I ran as fast as I could and then, I jumped to the beam.
When I saw it's effects I smiled, it felt good, like beating the the sh*t out of an annoying human.

Pd: If you ask, I don't hate or like it... For me is just there and nothing else.

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:56 .