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Possible reason why the ending failed.


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#101
SNascimento

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dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.

#102
unbentbuzzkill

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Bioware will never admit it's wrong, that would cause a rip in the fabric of space and rime and destroy us all, so in a way bioware is saving us by ruining beloved game franchises thank you bioware.

#103
wright1978

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SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.


The revulsion, confusion, anger the original ending inspired amongst the huge majority of people who experienced was in no way a sign of success. The original ending was a complete failure and the EC was the band aid that they devised to try and address the faults within the limitations of not making any changes to the fundamental structure.

#104
EagleScoutDJB

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SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if it doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.


I'm glad some people liked, or at the vary least think  the ending worked, but I feel if your game created the worst backlash I've ever seen over a game it didn't work.  Video games are entertainment, if enough of your fans hate it that you feel you have to release something like the EC you did something wrong.

Modifié par dbollendorf, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:39 .


#105
Necrotron

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

Well yeah, that plus it was terribly-written.


Yeah, the bittersweetness of the ending wouldn't have been so badly received if the logic getting there was sound.

#106
crimzontearz

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dbollendorf wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.


I'm glad some people liked, or at the vary least think  the ending worked, but I feel if your game created the worst backlash I've ever seen over a game it didn't work.  Video games are entertainment, if enough of your fans hate it that you feel you have to release something like the EC you did something wrong.


did you not know? Fans are irrelevant....we are whiny morons and such

#107
Iakus

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SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.



Bioware tried to deliver the message that "No matter how much you struggle, you'll never succeed"?

"Death is the only destination for heroes"?

"All we are is dust in the wind"?

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down"?

"Don't cling to love, it will always turn to ashes?"

"Ha-ha, we strung you along for five years?"

Modifié par iakus, 31 octobre 2012 - 04:41 .


#108
EagleScoutDJB

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crimzontearz wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.


I'm glad some people liked, or at the vary least think  the ending worked, but I feel if your game created the worst backlash I've ever seen over a game it didn't work.  Video games are entertainment, if enough of your fans hate it that you feel you have to release something like the EC you did something wrong.


did you not know? Fans are irrelevant....we are whiny morons and such

And it would be true that the fans are irrlevant if not for one thing, EA and Bioware need our money if they want to stay in business.

#109
crimzontearz

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iakus wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.



Bioware tried to deliver the message that "No matter how much you struggle, you'll never succeed"?

"Death is the only destination for heroes"?

"All we are is dust in the wind"?

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down"?

"Don't cling to love, it will always turn to ashes?"

"Ha-ha, we strung you along for five years?"


"MY STORY MY SHEPARD MY RULES MY ART"
"you do not like it? YOU LOSE"
"you are too dumb to understand"
"it is not our fault, it's yours"

#110
Iakus

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crimzontearz wrote...

iakus wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.



Bioware tried to deliver the message that "No matter how much you struggle, you'll never succeed"?

"Death is the only destination for heroes"?

"All we are is dust in the wind"?

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down"?

"Don't cling to love, it will always turn to ashes?"

"Ha-ha, we strung you along for five years?"


"MY STORY MY SHEPARD MY RULES MY ART"
"you do not like it? YOU LOSE"
"you are too dumb to understand"
"it is not our fault, it's yours"


Don't forget
"SO BE IT!  ROCKS FALL!  EVERYONE DIES!" :P

#111
crimzontearz

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dbollendorf wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.


I'm glad some people liked, or at the vary least think  the ending worked, but I feel if your game created the worst backlash I've ever seen over a game it didn't work.  Video games are entertainment, if enough of your fans hate it that you feel you have to release something like the EC you did something wrong.


did you not know? Fans are irrelevant....we are whiny morons and such

And it would be true that the fans are irrlevant if not for one thing, EA and Bioware need our money if they want to stay in business.

hence why I am planning to express myself with my wallet and help my friends and whoever I can influence to do the same with theirs

#112
SNascimento

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iakus wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.



Bioware tried to deliver the message that "No matter how much you struggle, you'll never succeed"?

"Death is the only destination for heroes"?

"All we are is dust in the wind"?

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down"?

"Don't cling to love, it will always turn to ashes?"

"Ha-ha, we strung you along for five years?"

.
No. The question it deliver is: "Does everything you do matters if there is an end?" or "How can you live knowing that here is an end".
.
What you are saying are possible answer to those quesiton. But most people just want to forget our mortality. It may work pretty well, but when you have to face the end, you are not prepared. 

#113
unbentbuzzkill

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ummm......oh i know the endings were poorly received because....well they just sucked plain and simple.

#114
crimzontearz

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iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

iakus wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

dbollendorf wrote...

I like it when a developer is willing to try something new in a game, there are not enough left with the guts to do that. But the last game in a trilogy seems like the wrong place to try something new, and if you have the guts to try something new you need to have the guts to admit you were wrong if doesn't work.

.
But here is the interesting thing. ME3's ending getting the backslassh it did doesn't mean it didn't work. Quite the contrary. It means it was very successful in the message it tried to deliver.
.
But unfortunately EC was released. Which means that by one point that preassure was too much for Bioware/EA to do nothing.



Bioware tried to deliver the message that "No matter how much you struggle, you'll never succeed"?

"Death is the only destination for heroes"?

"All we are is dust in the wind"?

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down"?

"Don't cling to love, it will always turn to ashes?"

"Ha-ha, we strung you along for five years?"


"MY STORY MY SHEPARD MY RULES MY ART"
"you do not like it? YOU LOSE"
"you are too dumb to understand"
"it is not our fault, it's yours"


Don't forget
"SO BE IT!  ROCKS FALL!  EVERYONE DIES!" :P

that was the second one

#115
ld1449

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Catman Assuming Direct Control wrote...

But...but... the ending was great.


LISTEN TO YOURSELF!!!

You're...Indoctrinated:ph34r:

#116
ShadowLordXII

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To add to the OP's post, what was wrong with a final boss?

Is it really cliche to have a final boss in a video game? Really?

And it's not like they didn't have someone for that boss either...didn't BW originally plan to have the Illusive Man turn into some freakish Indoctrinated Monster?

Or how about a desperate fight against Harbinger during that final run to the Conduit and then we get to Shepard wounded and struggling to walk on while Harbinger lies dead in the background, his voice whispering into Shepard's psyche about his inevitable defeat.

But seeing as that BW was gunning for Star-Child anyway, a final boss wouldn't have mattered. In fact, it would've made fans more ticked off.

#117
Fixers0

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The ending  failed probably because it was bad.

Modifié par Fixers0, 31 octobre 2012 - 05:15 .


#118
Blueprotoss

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SNascimento wrote...

 I think Bioware made the right choice with ME3's ending..People don't like it because the finality of it. .

fi·nal·i·ty/fīˈnalətē/

Noun:

The fact or impression of being an irreversible ending: "the finality of death".

.
And by ending, I mean only what happens after your pick your choice. The starkid is another matter. What I'm sure is, if after your choice you had an ending more in tone with the exntended cut and a reunion with your LI, ME3's ending disater would NEVER have happened.
.
There would be people complaining about the starkid, space magic and plot holes, but this guys exist ever since ME2. Actually, ME2 have a lot of this criticisms, but nonetheless is regarded as the best in the trilogy by the majority. 

This is very accurate and I'm surprised that some people forgot about the past critcisms that existed in ME way before ME3 was released.

Legion of 1337 wrote...

The original ending was EA's fault.

Now that we actually know what the ending is, it's not really bad except for the giant plot hole that's been there the whole time (the Crucible). But because people hated it in the first place, they got picky and didn't like the ending regardless, though I will admit that a Deus Ex ending often doesn't work outside Deus Ex, which a lot of games don't understand and ME didn't.

How is that EA's fault when Bioware has the majority of the Control over ME and if you're going to say that the Crucible is a "plothole" then the Reapers themselves would be a plothole.  To be fair DE didn't invent those "endings" but Control, Synthesis, and Destroy have been present in the ME series since ME1.

AeonFrog wrote...

ME3 made it painfully obvious that BW was just making it up as they went along.

If thats the case then ME2 would be an example of that way before ME3 since it was inevitable that the Reapers couldn't be stopped before ME2.

FlamingBoy wrote...

this is kind of strange logic when my favorite movie is butch cassidy and the sundance kid (60's movie)
or the widely praised red dead redemption (even though I did not like it)

you also suggest that people did not "used" to be this way that they used to like these endings. I therefore bring your attention to sherlock holmes and the negativity that brought about the author
Edit: or comparing the street car named desire movie vs the play

to suggest that some how I did not "get" it, or that the game (ME3) was somehow before its time and audiences were just not ready for it.... well frankly it theres a difference between being deep with meaning and vague

But the odd thing about that is both aren't a part of a series with three intertwined installments.

The problem here is that the book was in the form of a rough draft like what most writers of the time did in Europe by writhing thier books in monthly literary journals.

The irony here is that Bioware has always had sacrafice present in their endings whether its a side character, main protagonist, or main antagonist.  It shouldn't be shock that Shepard would die at the end of ME3 even when Shepard's story was going to be contained in a trilogy from the original announcement of ME.

JPN17 wrote...

I'd also just like to say that it sucked that instead of getting an ending that I fought for and deserved for 3 games, I was only able to choose an ending that the god kid, who comes out of nowhere, gives to me at the very end. God kid resolves the plot, not Shepard. That's a big no in my book.

So you don't what to rid the Milky Way of the Reapers then to save the lives of billions?

wright1978 wrote...

ME3 ending is a damp squib mess with so many huge problems to it.

There's all these war assets i've built up and yet they play virtually zero role in the ending. They are the missing f**k yeah moments. I don't see the Normandy, Destiny ascension, Krogan, geth, Quarians etc in action doing great things if i've accrued these assets.

Then there's the bizarre decision to bring ghost boy into the equation. It feels like they came up with the 3 ending types athey wanted nd then worked in a cheap device to achieve them that doesn't fit with anything else that came before.
I also dislike in a choice based game this desperate attempt by them to force Shep's death. Eventually they added in a Half arsed shep lives scenario but it should have been built in properly.

To be fair a conventional ending isn't possible and everything war asset doesn't need to be shown to be effective.  The Catalyst isn't really a bizarre decision since the Reaper leader was never shown until the end of ME3 and you shouldn't forget that Bioware laid down the framework of the choices throughout the story of ME.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 31 octobre 2012 - 05:39 .


#119
GreyLycanTrope

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SNascimento wrote...
That is not the same thing. This kind of uncertainty would have a totally different affect on the player, to the point for most  people it wouldn't be an emotional problem, but a racional one. ME3's original ending make you feel the incertainty deep inside you. And that is definitely not what people wanted. No wonder they good so pissed.

You're said we'd miss out on the feeling of uncertainty, I'm saying we can still feel that uncertainty. If you're arguring emotional conflict that something else entirely. And something I'd be glad to do without.

#120
CaptainZaysh

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Greylycantrope wrote...

SNascimento wrote...
That is not the same thing. This kind of uncertainty would have a totally different affect on the player, to the point for most  people it wouldn't be an emotional problem, but a racional one. ME3's original ending make you feel the incertainty deep inside you. And that is definitely not what people wanted. No wonder they good so pissed.

You're said we'd miss out on the feeling of uncertainty, I'm saying we can still feel that uncertainty. If you're arguring emotional conflict that something else entirely. And something I'd be glad to do without.


Are you really arguing for a less emotionally engaging story?

#121
Iakus

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crimzontearz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Don't forget
"SO BE IT!  ROCKS FALL!  EVERYONE DIES!" :P

that was the second one


My version's more literal Image IPB

#122
crimzontearz

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iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Don't forget
"SO BE IT!  ROCKS FALL!  EVERYONE DIES!" :P

that was the second one


My version's more literal Image IPB

I am sorry I was too dumb to understand your art

#123
Iakus

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Gervaise wrote...
Reading the Final Hours, it is revealled that originally we were going to be given a conventional big boss ending with a synthesised and power boosted TIM. Presumably after beating him we would simply press the button and get a conventional destroy ending with Reapers wiped out and everyone else surviving, except possibly Shepard. For some reason, the writers decided this would too cliched and predictable and so we got the endings we did. May be they should do a DLC ending with the one they originally planned and then when people get to the beam, that is where they are given the choice of a) conventional ending (TIM boss) or B) director's cut (the current endings). Since they have made it clear that Shepard's story ends regardless and it would be impossible to write a sequel without canonising one of the endings anyway, this would make little difference except allowing those people who do not enjoy the endings, to experience the original "conventional" vision of the writers rather than the later "non-conventional" one.



Such an ending would be cliched and uncreative.  Truly a DXHR rip-off.

Yet I would pay good money to replace the current ending with that, if it meant Shepard could rejoin the crew/LI, look out over a devastated London, and go "What do we do now?"

#124
Blueprotoss

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Greylycantrope wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

That is not the same thing. This kind of uncertainty would have a totally different affect on the player, to the point for most  people it wouldn't be an emotional problem, but a racional one. ME3's original ending make you feel the incertainty deep inside you. And that is definitely not what people wanted. No wonder they good so pissed.


You're said we'd miss out on the feeling of uncertainty, I'm saying we can still feel that uncertainty. If you're arguring emotional conflict that something else entirely. And something I'd be glad to do without.

Its very odd that you're arguing over opinion especially when it comes down to emotion.

iakus wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

Reading the Final Hours, it is revealled that originally we were going to be given a conventional big boss ending with a synthesised and power boosted TIM. Presumably after beating him we would simply press the button and get a conventional destroy ending with Reapers wiped out and everyone else surviving, except possibly Shepard. For some reason, the writers decided this would too cliched and predictable and so we got the endings we did. May be they should do a DLC ending with the one they originally planned and then when people get to the beam, that is where they are given the choice of a) conventional ending (TIM boss) or B) director's cut (the current endings). Since they have made it clear that Shepard's story ends regardless and it would be impossible to write a sequel without canonising one of the endings anyway, this would make little difference except allowing those people who do not enjoy the endings, to experience the original "conventional" vision of the writers rather than the later "non-conventional" one.


Such an ending would be cliched and uncreative.  Truly a DXHR rip-off.

Yet I would pay good money to replace the current ending with that, if it meant Shepard could rejoin the crew/LI, look out over a devastated London, and go "What do we do now?"

For Deus Ex to be the originator of those "endings" then DE would have to be one of the 1st science fiction stories to exist especially when Babylon 5, Megaman, Iron Man, Transformers, Blade Runner, Robocop, and the Matrix existed before DE.  Its also odd that Blade Runner, Robocop, and the Matrix heavily influenced DE as a series.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 31 octobre 2012 - 05:46 .


#125
hiraeth

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Blueprotoss wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

Reading the Final Hours, it is revealled that originally we were going to be given a conventional big boss ending with a synthesised and power boosted TIM. Presumably after beating him we would simply press the button and get a conventional destroy ending with Reapers wiped out and everyone else surviving, except possibly Shepard. For some reason, the writers decided this would too cliched and predictable and so we got the endings we did. May be they should do a DLC ending with the one they originally planned and then when people get to the beam, that is where they are given the choice of a) conventional ending (TIM boss) or B) director's cut (the current endings). Since they have made it clear that Shepard's story ends regardless and it would be impossible to write a sequel without canonising one of the endings anyway, this would make little difference except allowing those people who do not enjoy the endings, to experience the original "conventional" vision of the writers rather than the later "non-conventional" one.


iakus wrote...

Such an ending would be cliched and uncreative.  Truly a DXHR rip-off.

Yet I would pay good money to replace the current ending with that, if it meant Shepard could rejoin the crew/LI, look out over a devastated London, and go "What do we do now?"


For Deus Ex to be the originator of those "endings" then DE would have to be one of the 1st science fiction stories to exist especially when Babylon 5, Megaman, Iron Man, Transformers, Blade Runner, Robocop, and the Matrix existed before DE.  Its also odd that Blade Runner, Robocop, and the Matrix heavily influenced DE as a series.


i don't think he was asserting that DXHR was the first of its kind to do an ending like this..just a recent example. posts would be really long and painful if we had to recount the history of science fiction endings to make a point.