354 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I have been sharing that and more for a while but people keep forgetting

Also, in a prior message he let me know that Casey seemed adamant about having a happy non sacrifice ending....god only knows WTF happened to that

Really? That's odd. Part of me thought that it was Casey's idea to have almost always Shepard die in some artistic, symbolic sacrifice BS. So who did come up with the idea, Mac?

Wouldn't suprise me, Arrival seems very telling to of his writing style.

well....all I can do is relay to you what was said to me

[TK EL_]

crimzontearz wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

lol, to be fair someone has actually directly apologized about 1 of those statements

really? who? i didn't hear about an apology!

img51.imageshack.us/img51/8489/screenshot2012103114325.png

there, at the time we were talking a lot about the weapons, the deleted enemies and so on, I did ask him a week prior about the lack of sufficient war assets in SP to get the breath scene, he inquired to the guy who coded it and the answer was that, as you see, that is how it was meant to be....even tho he was told before there would be enough assets in the game to get ALL endings

Wow, thanks for putting this up. I had no idea it was acknowledged that early by one of the devs. This to me was one of if not the most blatant examples of taking advantage of your fans and consumers in general. Do you know to what lengths they went to deny this? Thread after thread was closed over this issue, each punctuated with a firm, almost condescending denial. Eventually when they released the EC, Chris casually mentioned it in passing that it was done on purpose with an air of disregard that I still haven't forgotten. Nobody get me wrong, I played a crap ton of MP, but this is about more than just the experience of one individual. It is the major reason why I too have chosen to vote with my walet. I decided that day that Bioware/EA will never see a dime of my money again. If they make a game I want to play, I'll simply get it used.

[crimzontearz]

I have been posting this forever...it was blatantly ignored by Chris

you wonder why I do not trust a single word he says?

[culletron1]

I thought the whole thing was just horrible writing. From the introduction of the crucible to the star child, it was really evident that the writers had no idea how they were going to tie up the series and the best they could come up with was a meta god child reaper that can't apply logic correctly and a big I win button that had been on Mars this whole time just no one noticed until right when they needed it!

None of this was hinted at or seeded in the previous games. In fact the things the star child said appear to totally contradict Sovereign in ME1. I mean, there was so many plot holes at the end, that the hallucination theory actually made more sense than the face value ending.

The unite the galaxy plot was done in dragon age origins so it was predictable and lazy. The new squad mates were lame.

The one thing I am glad about is that they had the balls to kill Shepard at the end. It would have really cheapened the story if he/she made it out OK after such huge deus ex machinas to get him/her into a winning position.

That is not to say it wasn't a good game... it was, just the marco plot was very poor by the standards of ME1.

[Someone With Mass]

The worst thing about it is that it had next to no foreshadowing.

I thought the Catalyst would be an inanimate object of some kind throughout the game, not an AI that's contradicting several key plot points of the first game by merely existing.

As for Shepard dying or living...is it too much to ask for both? As long as it's well done. I think the endings should have each had two scenarios where Shepard either lives or dies. To really have all those variations in the endings they bragged about.

Anyway, that's not the problem. The problem is that Shepard saves everyone because the Catalyst lets him do it. It's not something Shepard nor the player achieved, which makes it feel like I'm just an observer, that I don't have anything to do with this.

Then again, that's not the biggest problem. No, the biggest problem is that there shouldn't have been a final mission. The whole war should have been over when the Reapers took the Citadel if the game had been consistent with earlier establishments and not go all out with the assumption that Earth is the center of the galaxy and everything major should be decided there.

But, hey, what do I know about art and integrity, right?

[Legion of 1337]

I've said my gripes with the ending before, but I suppose this is good a place as any to reiterate. But really, I only dislike half of it - as in, I hate 2 of the 4 endings.

Synthesis is fine as a wild fantasy of the Catalyst - indeed, it would be fitting as such. But it should never have been an actual option for an ending, for obvious moral, thematic, and technical reasons.

Refuse is half-assed and shouldn't have been put in. If you have a giant Mega Doom Weapon as your MacGuffin, having the player refuse to use it and lose is just a dick move. Remove the option.

Control and Destroy are actually fine to me. I like them (yes: I LIKE the ending, or at least two of them), they still fit in thematically but still leave a moral dilemma.

The major problem I have with the whole thing is the plot hole elephant in the room - the Crucible. If the Crucible's existence and function is adequately explained, then I will have no serious gripes left other than the other minor plot holes. I can live with their Deus Ex rip-off ending choices - I've seen it before, I can deal with Synthesis and its crap. But the plot holes must be fixed.

[ZLurps]

@Cheez

I think the problem is basically in task / reward ratio and low production values in the final stage of game contributes to that a bit. It's not the ending per se, even though delivery was IMO bad, but problems are in pacing, how things build up earlier in game.
They tried very hard to make it filmeshque, and I think contrast with QTE parts and the Citadel, where control of character isn't taken from player (well, Kai Leng crap as exception to the rule) tells a lot about where, in their approach, they started to walk on a thin ice.

[silverexile17s]

Arcian wrote...

I thought we agreed that the ending failed because Super MAC sneezed artistic mucus all over it.

I'm not even sure Mac is entirely to blame. We saw that the EC was what he ORIGINALLY indended, but Hudson cut him off, wanting the story to stay 'High-level" (Linear)
If he HADN'T been so nit-picky about it, maybe Mac Walters could have surprised us. I mean, who KNOWS what ending options he ran by Hudson that were shot down. And had Drew STAYED to finish fleshing out the Dark Energy plot...
Sigh. I can dream, right?

[crimzontearz]

silverexile17s wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I thought we agreed that the ending failed because Super MAC sneezed artistic mucus all over it.

I'm not even sure Mac is entirely to blame. We saw that the EC was what he ORIGINALLY indended, but Hudson cut him off, wanting the story to stay 'High-level" (Linear)
If he HADN'T been so nit-picky about it, maybe Mac Walters could have surprised us. I mean, who KNOWS what ending options he ran by Hudson that were shot down. And had Drew STAYED to finish fleshing out the Dark Energy plot...
Sigh. I can dream, right?

according to Brenon casey wanted a happy ending....just saying

[Rapidfire Widow]

I was more annoyed at the fact that it's all a story told to the child. The ending wasn't terrible at all for me, the fact that it's all a legend, a myth, was. It all could have happened differently, Shephard MAY NOT HAVE EVEN EXISTED according to the last scene of the game. Basically everything you achieved was pointless.

[David7204]

I'm disappointed that the best defenses I see for 'happy' or 'triumphant' endings and consequences are basically "It's a cliche, but it doesn't matter cause real life sucks and I want a happy ending and it's unrealistic but I don't care cause it's a video game and cliches are okay." More or less. Which is all pretty much nonsense.

There are far better reasons.

Modifié par David7204, 01 novembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[Legion of 1337]

Rapidfire Widow wrote...

I was more annoyed at the fact that it's all a story told to the child. The ending wasn't terrible at all for me, the fact that it's all a legend, a myth, was. It all could have happened differently, Shephard MAY NOT HAVE EVEN EXISTED according to the last scene of the game. Basically everything you achieved was pointless.

I believe the point is that what you did was so awesome and important that you became a hero and the story became a legend, and you are remembered fondly even millenia upon millenia later. Star Wars was this as well.

[silverexile17s]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I've said my gripes with the ending before, but I suppose this is good a place as any to reiterate. But really, I only dislike half of it - as in, I hate 2 of the 4 endings.

Synthesis is fine as a wild fantasy of the Catalyst - indeed, it would be fitting as such. But it should never have been an actual option for an ending, for obvious moral, thematic, and technical reasons.

Refuse is half-assed and shouldn't have been put in. If you have a giant Mega Doom Weapon as your MacGuffin, having the player refuse to use it and lose is just a dick move. Remove the option.

Control and Destroy are actually fine to me. I like them (yes: I LIKE the ending, or at least two of them), they still fit in thematically but still leave a moral dilemma.

The major problem I have with the whole thing is the plot hole elephant in the room - the Crucible. If the Crucible's existence and function is adequately explained, then I will have no serious gripes left other than the other minor plot holes. I can live with their Deus Ex rip-off ending choices - I've seen it before, I can deal with Synthesis and its crap. But the plot holes must be fixed.

Agreed. Control and Destroy are actually acceptable, though on their own, with NOTHING else to choose from, they are not good ways to end a game. Though, I liked the concept that there was really no PERFECT "best" choice. That was kinda forshadowed with the whole "ancient, giant, sentiant living starships."

Synthesis, and later Refuse, however, PISSED ME THE F*** OFF!!!!!!!!
Synthesis is a Space-Magic Cop-Out that literally seems to be the living anti-thesis of EVERY reason you fight the Reapers in the first place.
The key reason for fighting is to allow every sentiant race the option to choose their own fate and decide the path they which to evolve on. This seems to be little to no different then what Saren wanted. I got horrible visions of him as a ghost laughing his turian ass off, saying "I told you, didn't I?"

Refuse was a dick-move by the developers becaues all everyone WANTED to do was refuse the existance of this -the fact that the element of choice felt ripped out right at the END OF THE GAME.
Now you can't even feel like you can refuse the endings anymore! It's either a near-carbon copy of Deus Ex Machina, or instant loss? That is a dick-move I NEVER thought I'd see from BioWare.

[Hey]

yeah - it can be improbable or cliche all that is to be expected but it should end with me being clucking awesome.

[silverexile17s]

crimzontearz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I thought we agreed that the ending failed because Super MAC sneezed artistic mucus all over it.

I'm not even sure Mac is entirely to blame. We saw that the EC was what he ORIGINALLY indended, but Hudson cut him off, wanting the story to stay 'High-level" (Linear)
If he HADN'T been so nit-picky about it, maybe Mac Walters could have surprised us. I mean, who KNOWS what ending options he ran by Hudson that were shot down. And had Drew STAYED to finish fleshing out the Dark Energy plot...
Sigh. I can dream, right?

according to Brenon casey wanted a happy ending....just saying

Still, it seems like he cut quite a bit out in editing for the sake of a linear plot-line. Or, they worked counter to each other.

[Blueprotoss]

silverexile17s wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Deus Ex is far from popular as you say it is until some people got to the end of ME3 and found out what DE was after the small amount of fallout that occured.

Strawman strikes again!![smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]
EVERYONE knows that seires. The endings were almost INSTANTLY linked with Deus Ex.

The only strawman would be coming from you because Deus Ex isn't popular and if ME copied DE then Eidos would have said something by now.

silverexile17s wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Sadly this is still going on.

Reverse logic is stalling the arguement.

Yet I'm not using opinion since logic is based around fact not opinion.  Insults are still are meaningless and useless.

silverexile17s wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I thought we agreed that the ending failed because Super MAC sneezed artistic mucus all over it.

I'm not even sure Mac is entirely to blame. We saw that the EC was what he ORIGINALLY indended, but Hudson cut him off, wanting the story to stay 'High-level" (Linear)
If he HADN'T been so nit-picky about it, maybe Mac Walters could have surprised us. I mean, who KNOWS what ending options he ran by Hudson that were shot down. And had Drew STAYED to finish fleshing out the Dark Energy plot...
Sigh. I can dream, right?

If thats the case then why would you blame a single person like MAc or Hudson even when they were part of the ME team since ME's general annoncement from 6 to 7 years ago.

silverexile17s wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

according to Brenon casey wanted a happy ending....just saying

Still, it seems like he cut quite a bit out in editing for the sake of a linear plot-line. Or, they worked counter to each other.

I'm pretty sure you didn't work for Bioware to know the "story" and I also know that making grand assumptions is a bad idea.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 01 novembre 2012 - 01:11 .

[Blueprotoss]

Arcian wrote...

I thought we agreed that the ending failed because Super MAC sneezed artistic mucus all over it.

How can you blame Mac while nobody has said when Drew started and ended then Mac finished.  To be fair the Lead Writer doesn't have overall control because there's an order and a chain of command.

[silverexile17s]

Blueprotoss wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Deus Ex is far from popular as you say it is until some people got to the end of ME3 and found out what DE was after the small amount of fallout that occured.

Strawman strikes again!![smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]
EVERYONE knows that seires. The endings were almost INSTANTLY linked with Deus Ex.

The only strawman would be coming from you because Deus Ex isn't popular and if ME copied DE then Eidos would have said something by now.

silverexile17s wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Sadly this is still going on.

Reverse logic is stalling the arguement.

Yet I'm not using opinion since logic is based around fact not opinion.  Insults are still are meaningless and useless.

silverexile17s wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I thought we agreed that the ending failed because Super MAC sneezed artistic mucus all over it.

I'm not even sure Mac is entirely to blame. We saw that the EC was what he ORIGINALLY indended, but Hudson cut him off, wanting the story to stay 'High-level" (Linear)
If he HADN'T been so nit-picky about it, maybe Mac Walters could have surprised us. I mean, who KNOWS what ending options he ran by Hudson that were shot down. And had Drew STAYED to finish fleshing out the Dark Energy plot...
Sigh. I can dream, right?

If thats the case then why would you blame a single person like MAc or Hudson even when they were part of the ME team since ME's general annoncement from 6 to 7 years ago.

silverexile17s wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

according to Brenon casey wanted a happy ending....just saying

Still, it seems like he cut quite a bit out in editing for the sake of a linear plot-line. Or, they worked counter to each other.

I'm pretty sure you didn't work for Bioware to know the "story" and I also know that making grand assumptions is a bad idea.

1.Do you really think Edios would WANT to get involved in that mess. Besides, their game gets MORE popular all of a sudden with all the uproar. No company wants to STOP that. Besides, when you ask about which game ending it reminds people of, everyone you ask tends to say Deus Ex. It's popular enough that it's what comes to everyones ming when the endings are brought up.
It wouldn't have been linked up with by so many people if not.

2. But you said that all fact is subjective opinion, remember? That's no different. You've denied everything from Dictionaries to wikis, refusing to acknolodge them as credible, factual sources of information. That would mean that according to YOUR "logic", EVERYTHING anyone says, yourself included, is NEVER ANYTHING BUT OPINION.
That's reverse logic.

3. Derw was lead writer then, remember? When he left the team, they didn't know how to continue the original vision he had when he wrote the plot for the Crucible.
Mac Walters is a wonderful character developer, but he doesn't know how to work effectively with the main plot of a story. Hudson was a bit too controling, and they clashed each other.  Hudson wanted the keep the story "High-level"(liner), but wanted the story to have the option of a happy ending. Walters wanted there to be a fair ammount of variation in the endings, but thought a perfect happy ending was just not realistic in the face of something like the Reapers.
In the end, they comprimized, resulting in the bittersweet Deus Ex Machina that we got instead.
I actually thnk had Walters been left alone, he could have actually made these bittersweet endings somewhat better, perhapse, without the constant echo of "make it high-level" in head.

4.And, no, I don't work for BioWare. And what makes your assumptions any more or less true? Do you work for BioWare?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 01 novembre 2012 - 10:00 .

[Grubas]

That was such a good read until strawman hit again. Can we not just agree to ignore every post he makes, and continue the disscusion like toss never happened?

Lol The lead writer can not be blamed completely, because there is a "chain of command", so dont blame him at all. Leave Mac alone. 

Modifié par Grubas, 01 novembre 2012 - 08:02 .

[drayfish]

Yep - Deus Ex, one of the most influential, respected and beloved games ever made, a work that frequently sits at the top of every 'Greatest Videogame of all Time' list, isn't that popular.

It just isn't. 'Cause... you know, stuff.


On an unrelated note, I wrote a haiku:


'Shades of Blue'

The only strawman
I'm not using opinion
Insults are useless

Modifié par drayfish, 01 novembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

The ending didn't fail.

People fail to grasp it, is all.

It's freaking genius.


Five minutes with the Reaper overlord and thousands of Shepards throw themselves willingly into the Reaper beam.

RELINQUISH YOUR FORM TO US

[SpamBot2000]

The ending only failed if you take it as an attempt at anything except a crude demolition of a beloved series.

If they were really going for a great, or even good, ending, why exclude the writing team and sneak this... thing... in such an odd, clandestine way?

[silverexile17s]

Grubas wrote...

That was such a good read until strawman hit again. Can we not just agree to ignore every post he makes, and continue the disscusion like toss never happened?

Lol The lead writer can not be blamed completely, because there is a "chain of command", so dont blame him at all. Leave Mac alone. 

I agree. I think that had Hudson left Mac alone, he could have been quite creative with it. We saw him at work in ME2 with his character plots, right? We KNOW he's not a bad writer. He got thrown into this when Drew left the writing team, and told, "Think up an ending for this", when main plotline writing wasn't his forte. But, I think had Hudson not nagged at him to keep it High-level (linear), it could have been better. We know from the "Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" app that the EC was what his original concept had been.
What if he'd continued from where the EC was? Keep adding to THAT version, instead of having things cut OUT at that stage?
I think that had Mac Walters been left to his own mecinations, he could have done something creative with this mess, instead of the High-level Deus Ex Machina that was produced by Hudson's interference.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 01 novembre 2012 - 10:08 .

[Mcfly616]

Let's get this straight. The Original Endings were awful. Granted, I have seen worse in Cinema, but never in a videogame.


With that being said, I think ME3's Extended Cut is a far better ending than ME2.

That not to say that I didn't like ME2's ending. It made me feel like an intergalactic badass for sure. But it was definitely a "by the numbers", typical ending. It was quite bland.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 01 novembre 2012 - 10:20 .