Mcfly616 wrote...
Let's get this straight. The Original Endings were awful. Granted, I have seen worse in Cinema, but never in a videogame.
With that being said, I think ME3's Extended Cut is a far better ending than ME2.
That not to say that I didn't like ME2's ending. It made me feel like an intergalactic badass for sure. But it was definitely a "by the numbers", typical ending. It was quite bland.
preferences and all that. I for one think the entirety of ME3 was better than ME2. (With ME1 still being my favorite.). All a matter of opinion, I guessiakus wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
Let's get this straight. The Original Endings were awful. Granted, I have seen worse in Cinema, but never in a videogame.
With that being said, I think ME3's Extended Cut is a far better ending than ME2.
That not to say that I didn't like ME2's ending. It made me feel like an intergalactic badass for sure. But it was definitely a "by the numbers", typical ending. It was quite bland.
Between ME3's ending, even with EC, and bland, I'll take bland every time
Mcfly616 wrote...
preferences and all that. I for one think the entirety of ME3 was better than ME2. (With ME1 still being my favorite.). All a matter of opinion, I guessiakus wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
Let's get this straight. The Original Endings were awful. Granted, I have seen worse in Cinema, but never in a videogame.
With that being said, I think ME3's Extended Cut is a far better ending than ME2.
That not to say that I didn't like ME2's ending. It made me feel like an intergalactic badass for sure. But it was definitely a "by the numbers", typical ending. It was quite bland.
Between ME3's ending, even with EC, and bland, I'll take bland every time
AdmiralCheez wrote...
But a beloved cliche is still a cliche. Bioware wanted to try something new. However, was that ultimately the best choice? Was it really a good idea to kill off the adrenaline in the final confrontation? Is it really appropriate for Shepard to decide the ultimate fate of the galaxy while standing next to a glowing ghost boy with soft, dreamy music playing in the background? Is it a good thing to deny players the critical "F* YEAH!", and instead bog them down with hazy uncertancies and morally ambiguous decisions that, no matter what they choose, have the potential to make them feel like a monster?
Modifié par KevShep, 01 novembre 2012 - 11:33 .
As do I.KevShep wrote...
AdmiralCheez wrote...
But a beloved cliche is still a cliche. Bioware wanted to try something new. However, was that ultimately the best choice? Was it really a good idea to kill off the adrenaline in the final confrontation? Is it really appropriate for Shepard to decide the ultimate fate of the galaxy while standing next to a glowing ghost boy with soft, dreamy music playing in the background? Is it a good thing to deny players the critical "F* YEAH!", and instead bog them down with hazy uncertancies and morally ambiguous decisions that, no matter what they choose, have the potential to make them feel like a monster?
This is EVERYTHING Ive been saying to people that dont understand why most of us think the ending is the BIGGEST let down in gaming history/entertainment history! Why is this so hard for some to realize that?
I agree 100% with you!
Who in their right mind wants that?
Modifié par Massa FX, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:05 .
Modifié par Massa FX, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:05 .
Modifié par ld1449, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:26 .
Guest_DirtyMouthSally_*
I think grim and dark can be done well. I may be in the minority here, but a "not so happy ending" doesn't bother me. That's not to say that I don't think that the ME3 ending is awful, which I do, and the ec only made it worse for me.Nightwriter wrote...
This desire to do something new literally ruined the game for me. It may even end up ruining the series; still can't bring myself to go back to ME2, knowing what's coming. Clearly I am not the only person who was disappointed by it, either.
When you have a choice between doing something wild and new and series-destroying, or doing something tried and true and series-preserving, why would you go with wild and new? I mean, obviously they didn't know it would be series-destroying, but... shouldn't they have?
At this point, this fear of cliche has become a serious threat to my ability to enjoy my fiction. Unless creators stop worshiping this group of people who say grimdark is "mature" and only new is good, a lot of creative works are probably going to suffer.
Modifié par AlanC9, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:43 .
Guest_DirtyMouthSally_*
There's a difference between a not so happy ending and a flat out depressing one I think. I'm tired of depressing endings being made out to be mature and deep. It's stupid.DirtyMouthSally wrote...
I think grim and dark can be done well. I may be in the minority here, but a "not so happy ending" doesn't bother me. That's not to say that I don't think that the ME3 ending is awful, which I do, and the ec only made it worse for me.Nightwriter wrote...
This desire to do something new literally ruined the game for me. It may even end up ruining the series; still can't bring myself to go back to ME2, knowing what's coming. Clearly I am not the only person who was disappointed by it, either.
When you have a choice between doing something wild and new and series-destroying, or doing something tried and true and series-preserving, why would you go with wild and new? I mean, obviously they didn't know it would be series-destroying, but... shouldn't they have?
At this point, this fear of cliche has become a serious threat to my ability to enjoy my fiction. Unless creators stop worshiping this group of people who say grimdark is "mature" and only new is good, a lot of creative works are probably going to suffer.
Speaking of creators, my opinion of ME3 is that much of it is not terribly original. It seems to be more of an amalgamation of ideas and concepts already used in other works, which may ok, except that the final product smacks as a cheap rip-off with poor execution.
I'm not a big Tali fan, but that photoshopped stock photo of her and her hand and all, really speaks for itself. It's a microcosm of a lot of what I see in ME3, an unoriginal poorly executed rip-off. I know that's harsh, but that's the way that I see it.
Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 02 novembre 2012 - 03:40 .
Guest_DirtyMouthSally_*
Tuchanka was my favorite. I don't mind old themes either. When I say that it smacks as a cheap rip-off with poor execution, I mean to say that in light of the fact that some of it is recycled, it's execution is handled in a very clumsy way. The fact that it's not original is accentuated, and it's off-putting, similar to my reaction to the Tali photo, cheap.Nightwriter wrote...
There's a difference between a not so happy ending and a flat out depressing one I think. I'm tired of depressing endings being made out to be mature and deep. It's stupid.
But if the ending is going to be depressing, the work should set you up for it. ME3 didn't. The game made a last minute decision to commit suicide, and it didn't feel right.
I don't care if a work uses old themes. I care if it's well written. I'll never understand why, for some other people, it's the opposite. They don't care if it's well written; they care if it uses old themes.
The Tuchanka arc is an example of storytelling that didn't really use any innovative writing devices and yet was very well written and worthy of praise. According to some people, this would mean it was a bad arc, because it did not attempt to pull something new and gritty and revolutionary and depressing out of its ass.
sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I always miss out on the Admiral's threads when they start.
* Bioware should have stuck to the strengths of the series and not given us an ending where we're supposed to commit suicide that had all of the intellectual content of a decapitated version of Blues Clues. -- I loved that analogy.
* Anderson's death should have happened earlier in the game or after the final battle.
* The game shouldn't have ended on a cliff hanger. Never end the final installment of a character's story arc on a cliff hanger. It is downright cruel.
* Never tell the player "You are Shepard" for three games, then kill the player off in the final game on purpose unless you want backlash. -- note I'm excluding the masochists who want to kill their characters.
* And actually I'm missing the happy ending. The heroic happy ending is bloody rare these days.
Guest_magnetite_*
sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
* Never tell the player "You are Shepard" for three games, then kill the player off in the final game on purpose unless you want backlash. -- note I'm excluding the masochists who want to kill their characters.
* And actually I'm missing the happy ending. The heroic happy ending is bloody rare these days.
Modifié par magnetite, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:09 .
Guest_DirtyMouthSally_*
I don't know. They could not have had an evacuation at all, as far as that goes, and whoever were the squadmates that came with you, died, putting their names on the wall as well, along with yours. That probably wouldn't go over to well with the fans, but still. They died fighting for what they believed in. Millions/Billions died leading up to that. Are your squadmates so untouchable? Just a thought.AlanC9 wrote...
I wonder if the evac scene was only needed for the Synthesis ending with EDI and Joker. Other LIs could have been swapped into the Miranda/Jack slide if they were left on Earth, and the Destroy plaque scene could have defaulted to Traynor if the LI wasn't on board ( though it would have been a little odd).
Modifié par DirtyMouthSally, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:31 .
If Bioware did copy Eidos thenEidos would have done something about it but that tells us DE wasn't the 1st. If DE is popular as you say then it would match the lies of Half-Life and Doom.silverexile17s wrote...
1.Do you really think Edios would WANT to get involved in that mess. Besides, their game gets MORE popular all of a sudden with all the uproar. No company wants to STOP that. Besides, when you ask about which game ending it reminds people of, everyone you ask tends to say Deus Ex. It's popular enough that it's what comes to everyones ming when the endings are brought up.
It wouldn't have been linked up with by so many people if not.
Never said fact is subjective but opinion is subjective. Btw the logic I'm using are actual facts and its not that hard to use common sense.silverexile17s wrote...
2. But you said that all fact is subjective opinion, remember? That's no different. You've denied everything from Dictionaries to wikis, refusing to acknolodge them as credible, factual sources of information. That would mean that according to YOUR "logic", EVERYTHING anyone says, yourself included, is NEVER ANYTHING BUT OPINION.
That's reverse logic.
How is that a compromise when Bioware has always done bittersweet endings even before DE was created by Eidos.silverexile17s wrote...
3. Derw was lead writer then, remember? When he left the team, they didn't know how to continue the original vision he had when he wrote the plot for the Crucible.
Mac Walters is a wonderful character developer, but he doesn't know how to work effectively with the main plot of a story. Hudson was a bit too controling, and they clashed each other. Hudson wanted the keep the story "High-level"(liner), but wanted the story to have the option of a happy ending. Walters wanted there to be a fair ammount of variation in the endings, but thought a perfect happy ending was just not realistic in the face of something like the Reapers.
In the end, they comprimized, resulting in the bittersweet Deus Ex Machina that we got instead.
I actually thnk had Walters been left alone, he could have actually made these bittersweet endings somewhat better, perhapse, without the constant echo of "make it high-level" in head.
I never said I worked for them, but you shouldn't forget that assumptions are just assumptions.silverexile17s wrote...
4.And, no, I don't work for BioWare. And what makes your assumptions any more or less true? Do you work for BioWare?
Its easy to assume things without evidence even when Drew left during ME3 and Mac wrote every ME comic, which tells us nobody knows where Drew or Mac started then ended.silverexile17s wrote...
I agree. I think that had Hudson left Mac alone, he could have been quite creative with it. We saw him at work in ME2 with his character plots, right? We KNOW he's not a bad writer. He got thrown into this when Drew left the writing team, and told, "Think up an ending for this", when main plotline writing wasn't his forte. But, I think had Hudson not nagged at him to keep it High-level (linear), it could have been better. We know from the "Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" app that the EC was what his original concept had been.
What if he'd continued from where the EC was? Keep adding to THAT version, instead of having things cut OUT at that stage?
I think that had Mac Walters been left to his own mecinations, he could have done something creative with this mess, instead of the High-level Deus Ex Machina that was produced by Hudson's interference.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 02 novembre 2012 - 10:24 .
Ironically insulting people is a strawman and to be fair there is a thing called a chain of command.Grubas wrote...
That was such a good read until strawman hit again. Can we not just agree to ignore every post he makes, and continue the disscusion like toss never happened?
Lol The lead writer can not be blamed completely, because there is a "chain of command", so dont blame him at all. Leave Mac alone.
You do know that something thats influential doesn't make it popular, which an example of that is Killswitch that spawned Gears of War or Alone in the Dark that spawned the Survival Horror genre. Btw ignorance only breeds more ignorance hence why its useless to insult people.drayfish wrote...
Yep - Deus Ex, one of the most influential, respected and beloved games ever made, a work that frequently sits at the top of every 'Greatest Videogame of all Time' list, isn't that popular.
It just isn't. 'Cause... you know, stuff.
On an unrelated note, I wrote a haiku:
'Shades of Blue'
The only strawman
I'm not using opinion
Insults are useless
Establishing a Reaper leader isnt anything new just like how the Control, Destroy and Synthesis concepts have been in ME since ME1. You personally don't have to enjoy every work of fiction just like everyone else does. I'm pretty sure like most people including me you don't like everyhiing that you read, watch, or play.Nightwriter wrote...
This desire to do something new literally ruined the game for me. It may even end up ruining the series; still can't bring myself to go back to ME2, knowing what's coming. Clearly I am not the only person who was disappointed by it, either.
When you have a choice between doing something wild and new and series-destroying, or doing something tried and true and series-preserving, why would you go with wild and new? I mean, obviously they didn't know it would be series-destroying, but... shouldn't they have?
At this point, this fear of cliche has become a serious threat to my ability to enjoy my fiction. Unless creators stop worshiping this group of people who say grimdark is "mature" and only new is good, a lot of creative works are probably going to suffer.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 02 novembre 2012 - 10:30 .
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*
Blueprotoss wrote...
If I wanted to use opinion then I wouldn't be using logic or I would be insulting people for no reason.A Bethesda Fan wrote...
Common sense is subjective.
You do not use facts, you try to make your deluded views into facts.
Blueprotoss wrote...
Establishing a Reaper leader isnt anything new just like how the Control, Destroy and Synthesis concepts have been in ME since ME1. You personally don't have to enjoy every work of fiction just like everyone else does. I'm pretty sure like most people including me you don't like everyhiing that you read, watch, or play.
Modifié par TK EL , 02 novembre 2012 - 11:10 .
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