5 réponses à ce sujet

[AnacondaDarce]

Let me just start by saying, i'm not having a go at anyone and i don't know if what i'm typing right now is going to end up as a question, a rant or incoherant rambling but here goes. Recently i find myself reading the word "retcon" alot  and how dead characters should stay dead and how options don't matter, and it got me thinking, am i the only person who thinks/understands it just isn't viable for every single outcome of every single option from every single peice of dialogue to be taken into account and a seperate peice of lore/story/dialogue be written and implemented in a game based on what is chosen at that time by everyone's individual PC?

I'd love for this to be the case, don't get me wrong, but it just isn't possible, not unless you want to wait 50 years inbetween Dragon Ages. Now to the point i think i'm trying to make, i have a saying "if it's cutscene, then it's canon." not perfect but it helps me put things into perpsective from a video game standpoint, now indulge me if you will and use my saying for 5mins while you (hopefully) read the rest of my ramblings.

I think we can all agree Anders is either dead or alive because those are the options we were given and we had to choose one, the same can be said for Loghain, which is why there inclusion in DA3 can be debated by us, because there either dead or alive, we chose the option, so we know, in our own worlds what the outcome is/was. For arguments sake let's say you killed them, if they turn up in Your DA3 i can see why you'd be a little annoyed because it was an endgame choice given to you in a cutscene by the game creator which was then ignored by that very same creator a little further down the line, completely understandable to be angry in that case.
 
However if for example you (somehow) killed Morrigan or leliana or shale i personally don't think you can/should be too mad if they popped up further down the road because you kind of have to go out of your way too kill them, either through bad approval or doing an action you know that character has strong feelings towards, so in my opinion it's your own fault that character is dead, not the games, which is why i believe their inclusion in a future DA title would be acceptable. Sure the game gave you the option to kill them, but it's an option that's 100% avoidable.

I understand how frustrating it is too see someone (in what you believe to be your world, your story) and be like "wtf, you should be dead." and how that kind of takes a little immersion out of the game, but in all honesty i don't think we should be crying over spilt milk. We've got two great Dragon Age games with a third on the way, is your experience going to be "ruined" if the casteless you killed in dust town in DA:O turns up as a merchant in DA3, really?

Sarcasm aside if Bioware want to have dead Fenris play a big part in the sequel and it makes the overall story better for his inclusion, go for it, and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the main reason we play these kinds of games for the story, and if your honest with yourself which would you rather have a solid DA3 with an excellent story that has a few character inclusions your not 100% happy with or a completely personalised experience that takes everything you've ever killed, said and touched into account but  the story sucks and it has more plot holes than an ME3 ending and it takes longer to make than half life 3?

I really hope this makes sense and isn't completely ilegible, i'd love to hear your opinions on what you've just read.

[unbentbuzzkill]

borderline rant but really good points, if the story gets better because a character is brought back from the dead do it after all it is a video game not real life.

[Realmzmaster]

I have no problem with bringing a character back and establishing the canon that the character did not die if it adds to the story. The bringing back of Leliana in DA2 and the Exiled Prince as Sister Nightingale added nothing to the story. Sister Nightingale could have been an entirely new character. All we get with Leliana's return is fan service.

[Guns]

Guns wrote...

The worse thing you can do is to retcon. That's when universes start going to crap *cough* warcraft * cough*. They've done enough of it already for dragon age.

[Palipride47]

AnacondaDarce wrote...

Now to the point i think i'm trying to make, i have a saying "if it's cutscene, then it's canon.....
However if for example you (somehow) killed Morrigan or leliana or shale i personally don't think you can/should be too mad if they popped up further down the road because you kind of have to go out of your way too kill them, either through bad approval or doing an action you know that character has strong feelings towards, so in my opinion it's your own fault that character is dead, not the games, which is why i believe their inclusion in a future DA title would be acceptable. Sure the game gave you the option to kill them, but it's an option that's 100% avoidable.

I could agree/ diasgree. "Avoidable" is tricky, but yes, I think being upset because a random VFX shows head/body separation does not make for "proof" of decapatation. All those ogres that fell w/o VFX should've come back to life, according to lore. But six of those VFX in the Final Battle and I would fling my shoddy computer pretty hard at a wall.

And Leliana still being alive could be explained by getting killed in a temple where the ashes of a woman that will heal anyone happen to be. Not perfect (you can kill her in camp) and not justifying it, but there's that. 

AnacondaDarce wrote...
I understand how frustrating it is too see someone (in what you believe to be your world, your story) and be like "wtf, you should be dead." and how that kind of takes a little immersion out of the game, but in all honesty i don't think we should be crying over spilt milk. We've got two great Dragon Age games with a third on the way, is your experience going to be "ruined" if the casteless you killed in dust town in DA:O turns up as a merchant in DA3, really? 

While there are the "I killed Wynne and Irving and they showed up in a book!" ragers out there, I would not consider the retconning of Anders "crying over spilled milk" (and I kept him EVERY TIME, because Anders is awesome, thats why!) 

Some people never recruit him at all (meaning no darkspawn blood, which means no Warden senses). Or they gave him to the Templars, but by then, he was a Warden. Justice could be explained as a little side bromance. I mean, Anders has a friend in Amaranthine who takes his cat, regardless of your DAA (non) playthrough.

He gets a line if he died in Vigil's Keep about a decoy body, but what about those who never recruited him? Did he dare himself to steal the goblet and drink it when everyone walked away? Did he stalk the Warden to the Blackmarch, showing signs of a stalker syndrome that a year later, would fully manifest with some person named "Hawke" he encounters?

The "gay retcon" is a non-issue to me, because I never saw a "contradiction" (people can be bi, and bi people don't walk around with a sex with which sex tally to determine their gay/straightness)  nvm, Palipride, don't derail this thread.

AnacondaDarce wrote...
Sarcasm aside if Bioware want to have dead Fenris play a big part in the sequel and it makes the overall story better for his inclusion, go for it, and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the main reason we play these kinds of games for the story, and if your honest with yourself which would you rather have a solid DA3 with an excellent story that has a few character inclusions your not 100% happy with or a completely personalised experience that takes everything you've ever killed, said and touched into account but  the story sucks and it has more plot holes than an ME3 ending and it takes longer to make than half life 3?

I really hope this makes sense and isn't completely ilegible, i'd love to hear your opinions on what you've just read.

Both?

I don't want fan service cameos with horrible punch lines that were never funny (The "swooping is bad" line killed my excitement over Alistair being there, completely ->-><_<. Like History Channel killed History - MTV joke is overrdone) 

But I'm not mad about Zevran the way some people are like "OMG HE SHOULD BE LITERALLY TIED TO MY HIP I READ OVERATTACHED GF MEMES AND ASK WHATS WRONG WITH WHAT SHE SAYS ARGGHHHG 

Not every decision (like Cullen) will be sacrosanct. But, in the end, Cullen means little to the DA universe in general. And maybe they can do a GREAT storyline with him for DA3 (I don't like him now, we'll see in he is in DA3).

Same with a detached Justice, same with a "not-dead, exiled" Anora trying to reseize her throne. (I mean, even hardened Alistair never explicity states, "I'm killing her.") Maybe he pulled an Arland/ Dryden to appease her supporters and now it is costing the stability of the nation, and he can't marry her instead because he's married to the now-missing Hero of Ferelden (from Warden's Keep DLC, for those without it)

The OGB, who rules Fereldan and Orzammar, those DO matter. And I want those treated with more respect than whether I gave Katlyn and Bevin either money or the sword back. 

I might be uncomfortable with a not-dead Fenris if I killed him, but I would be WAY more uncomfortable with a not-dead Anders (which isn't going to happen, Gaider isn't lying through his teeth, despite what some like to think), or a not-dead Meredith. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 31 octobre 2012 - 09:54 .

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't mind seemingly dead characters reappearing. There are numerous ways to explain their cameos, and while some may consider those ways to be hand-waving or whatnot, in the context of the vast, mysterious, magical universe that is Dragon Age, perceived death is probably not all that it seems. And in some manner, it's the universe, fate, circumstance that has a greater power - every choice taken by a player/PC may not pan out the way he/she hopes, may not yield success (which is measured individually). 

I, for one, welcome the inclusions as they have, thus far, added to the story (imo, of course). And I look forward to seeing how the overall narrative unfolds.