36 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

 Back in Neverwinter nights, everyone who weren't capable of picking a lock were still able to smash it, and it was logical. I think mages and warriors should be able to blow up or smash locks and doors open. The cons of that in NWN was that you also had a chance to break the item that was in the chest, so you could find a trash piece of metal instead of say a sword inside of the chest if you break it open. 

Thoughts? 

Modifié par KainD, 31 octobre 2012 - 08:33 .

[NRieh]

Afaik this feature was initialy supposed to be in DAO (or so they say), and there is a mod, that "unlocks" it, and it works exactly as you said. Check goes not against lockpick skill, but against main damage stat (like magic or strength), and there is a chance to break the chest.

Imo, it's a good thing. It spares you from having lockpicking rogue in your party, but it also adds risk of wasting some needed loot from locked chest (like gifts or minor plot items). And this risk is based on a random roll.

[ElitePinecone]

Do you mean break?

I think this is a good idea, KoTOR had the same feature (unless it was Obsidian's KoTOR II and I'm misremembering), and if crafting is going to be reasonably deep this time around the chance to get item components if we don't have a rogue handy would be nice. The probability of items breaking being dependent on mage/warrior skills or attributes would also be a nice touch.

Of course, lockpicking in DA2 was rather oddly tied to Dexterity and not its own skill, so if non-combat skills are going to be reintroduced in any meaningful way for the next game it may be that there's more depth to opening doors or locked crates.

[NRieh]

Of course, lockpicking in DA2 was rather oddly tied to Dexterity and not its own skill

Wasn't it Cunning?.. I'm pretty sure it was...

[ElitePinecone]

Nrieh wrote...

Of course, lockpicking in DA2 was rather oddly tied to Dexterity and not its own skill

Wasn't it Cunning?.. I'm pretty sure it was...

Oops, it was. My bad.

[Bernhardtbr]

Doing that implies in a high chance of rogues becoming useless or UP.

If breaking chests is possible there should be a chance to break the items inside it as well.

[Wulfram]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Doing that implies in a high chance of rogues becoming useless or UP.

No it doesn't.  Rogues are plenty powerful based on their combat abilities.  You don't need to punish people for not including them in the party.

[AlexJK]

Yes, I think the option to break open small locks (chests, basic doors) should exist, possibly with a penalty to the items inside. But there are some locks (bigger chests, stronger doors) which can always be unbreakable, retaining the opening of some secret areas and mega treasure hauls to the rogue.

Modifié par AlexJK, 31 octobre 2012 - 11:26 .

[NRieh]

Doing that implies in a high chance of rogues becoming useless or UP.

It's same as saying that healing potions make spirit healers useless. You may like it one way or another. Potion has CD. Bashing has a chance of getting dust pile instead of your loot.

By the way, NWN used separate trained spell for mages to open doors and locks - Knock. While rest could lockpick(trained) or bash (avalible to all, if I remember right). Ah..good old times, when no one tried to make things too easy... 8P

[Vitlen]

Would be cool to kick open doors...........

[mousestalker]

KainD wrote...

 Back in Neverwiner(Neverwinter) nights, everyone who weren't capable of picking a lock were still able to smash it, and it was logical. I think mages and warriors should be able to blow up or smash locks and doors open. The cons of that in NWN was that you also had a chance to brake(break) the item that was in the chest, so you could find a trash piece of metal instead of say a sword inside of the chest if you brake it open. 

Thoughts? 

(fixed some stuff)

I miss Neverwhiner Nights. The old forums were nicer then.

BW almost implemented chest smash in DAO. They created the animations and such, but never implemented them. There are two mods for the PC that used the existing mechanic to allow that.

To be honest, I can see both sides of the argument.

[Terrorize69]

Mages can't pick locks with magic? lol I always wondered why my mages could be baffled by a locked door or chest, I can rain fire, caused thunder storms, freeze the field, but not use a little will power to unlock something?

If anything It would be nice for warded chests/doors that only mages can breach.

[iSignIn]

It should only depend on your Cunning.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I said it in the other thread, but I would be content if they would just let the PC be able unlock the chests if there is a rogue in the party with a cunning skill high enough. No need to make us constantly switch characters for an activity that could take just one second.

I've gotten to the point on playthroughs for DA2 where I just don't even bother with the chests when I play, even if I have a rogue (and I always do) in the party. I have all the DLC, so I just stick with those pieces of armor and weapons.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

Ever since I found the lockbash mod I have been using it in my DAO playthroughs. I don't mind that there is a small chance of destroying what's inside. It makes sense to me, especially before you get Leliana, that you would at least try to break the locks. Without the mod I found it frustrating to play as a mage or warrior and not be able to unlock things in my own house. Or bash them open.

I find it better to have rogues for the higher level locks, but at least earlier in the game I don't feel cheated by not being able to open everything. The comment about magic not working on the door in the basement makes more sense if it can be used to unlock other things.

[Bernhardtbr]

Wulfram wrote...

No it doesn't.  Rogues are plenty powerful based on their combat abilities.  You don't need to punish people for not including them in the party.

You´re contradicting yourself. Then if rogues are so good why give their class ability to another? Since you should always have one rogue in the party... Why have warriors if they are so good at combat? Just make parties of rogues and mages huh?

Giving lots of choices is as bad as giving no choice at all. Some things should be unique to a class, including to give replayability. You can´t cast spells if you have no mage and on one complains about that, then why it´s such a bad thing you can´t pick locks without a rogue? If chest and door breaking is possible some penalty should exist.

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 31 octobre 2012 - 01:39 .

[IElitePredatorI]

Like this?

[ElitePinecone]

Bernhardtbr wrote...
Giving lots of choices is as bad as giving no choice at all. Some things should be unique to a class, including to give replayability. You can´t cast spells if you have no mage and on one complains about that, then why it´s such a bad thing you can´t pick locks without a rogue? If chest and door breaking is possible some penalty should exist.

I think the idea is that there aren't many other gameplay systems that are so dependent on companion class. It's possible to tackle any combat situation (with varying degrees of success) with any class combination, and it's possible to use potions or stat buffing items in lieu of taking mages. Mages' spells aren't absolutely necessary, because all their non-combat functions can be handled by other gameplay systems - and warriors have no non-combat use at all, at least in DA2 as far as I'm aware.

The items inside locked doors and locked containers might only ever be non-essential filler that just nets the player more cash in the long run, but it's hard to think of another situation where bringing one class along is completely necessary for a segment of gameplay. It comes down to design philosophy and how much class differentiation there is - and we have really no info on this for Inquisition.

(Of course, DA3 might include things like codex entries or unique items in locked containers, and so the appeal of unlocking them is greater - we don't really know.)

[LilyasAvalon]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

Doing that implies in a high chance of rogues becoming useless or UP.

If breaking chests is possible there should be a chance to break the items inside it as well.

I approve of this. A very good mod came out for DA:O that allowed anyone to break open the chest, but it was tied to their strength stat, the higher the stat, the easier it was to open the chest, but the easier it was also to break items inside the chest.

[Patchwork]

I'm in favour of this- let mages blow stuff up and warriors bash things with a chance of destroying the loot or making the treasure room door unpassable. The risk free way is to use a rogue and they could have a chance at opening a lock above their skill level.

Traps should remain a rogue exclusive skill.

[Wulfram]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

You´re contradicting yourself. Then if rogues are so good why give their class ability to another? Since you should always have one rogue in the party... Why have warriors if they are so good at combat? Just make parties of rogues and mages huh?

Giving lots of choices is as bad as giving no choice at all. Some things should be unique to a class, including to give replayability. You can´t cast spells if you have no mage and on one complains about that, then why it´s such a bad thing you can´t pick locks without a rogue? If chest and door breaking is possible some penalty should exist.

All the classes provide combat abilities of different types.  They ultimately contribute to success in combat together, and part of the attraction of the game is coming up with ways to combine the various classes and abilities.  Any party mix can succeed at combat, though some might be more effective than others.

But lockpicking is a simple pass/fail check which doesn't play into anything else and just serves to punish people for choosing a mix that's atypical.  It doesn't add any interest to the game, it just limits party composition.

edit:  Rereading that I'm not sure if even I can tell what I'm wittering about, so I'll have another go.

You can play without Mages or Warriors, and the only "penalty" is a different sort of challenge in combat.  If you play without Rogues, you have a different sort of challenge in combat, and you'll miss out on everything behind a lock.

I enjoy playing around with party composition, either because I want to have different characters in my party, or for adding the fresh challenge to combat.  I don't see the gameplay benefit of making one class a requirement to access loot. 

Not as a regular routine thing, anyway.

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 octobre 2012 - 02:49 .

[Galactus_the_Devourer]

Break, surely?