253 réponses à ce sujet

[Dream-Maker]

Biotic explosions still are the strongest type of explosion anyway, this in itself is a great advantage to biotic characters. And mind you, almost everyone suffers from ammo powers setting up tech explosions. A human engineer built around incinerate/overload explosions for example will also see his DPS go down if someone else constantly primes his target with incendiary or disruptor ammo. Because tech explosions that come from ammo are weaker than those coming from level 6 powers.

Anyway, playing as a biotic character you shouldn't rely ONLY on biotic explosions and base your entire strategy around keeping the lowest cooldown possible to make the most biotic booms in one match.

You're not playing alone and will rarely be able to make things go boom on your own all the time, so it's better to take that into account. Biotics are stronger when there are several of them in a team but even with a team of techies and a non BE friendly environment they are able to perform great. If you can't do that you've probably built your character the wrong way.

As an adept you don't need to have 200% cooldown. You can afford to go down to around 150% and still keep extremely fast cooldowns (plenty of powerful weapons fall in this weight range), and even if you really want a 200% cooldown regardless just throw out that carnifex and take a hurricane + scorpion or acolyte with ULM on both for example. You can destroy anything with that. Also warp users can benefit from insane DPS with incendiary ammo, and every enemy that is set up for a biotic explosion takes increased warp ammo damage. So even if you can't BE because of your teammates you're still able to kick ass if you make the right choices.

Every char has access to weapons and ammo consumables, pick them well in regards to their performance and in combination with your power effects and you'll be able to wreck pretty much anything like any other class, no matter the situation.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 10 novembre 2012 - 02:57 .

[whalewhisker]

So long as you're not the only biotic, then yes, absolutely.

[poonts]

and then there's the fury...

[whateverman7]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

Yes, they can contribute just fine, but the game mechanics as they currently stand prevent them from contributing at their maximum potential, with a number of exceptions that can be counted on one hand.  (Fury, Justicar, Drell, and Valkyrie.)

so that exception list keeps growing i see lol....anyway, those game mechanics allow them to top the scoreboards?....either all the players using biotics are very good at the game, or yall claim of them being 'weaker' is not true....i think it's the latter

Modifié par whateverman7, 10 novembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[darkpassenger2342]

add human adept to the list of 'exceptions"
the class is amazing and has 0 limitations.

[whateverman7]

TheThirdRace wrote...

If you take something out of context you can make it tell whatever you want. I took the liberty to repeat the whole discussion with the other guy so you can see the reasonning behind it.

As you can read, I top the scoreboard BUT with only 3 medals and less kills than everyone else. Biotic explosions give a ridiculous amount of experience. If I can pull 25 kills with BE, I've got more than 75% of that score done. Killing a Canibal with Warp will give me something like 300 experience while killing it with a biotic explosion will give me more than 3 times as much.

Because of biotic explosions giving that much experience, I can top the scoreboard even by being the worst player of the game. You cannot base yourself on the scoreboard when it comes to Biotics because of this. My score means nothing, only that I managed to pull off some biotic explosions along the way and that's it. The other players killed much more enemies than me and at a faster pace too. Would you say a character would be overpowered if he had a score of 100k for 5 melee kills while doing nothing else for the remaining of the game? No, I would say he benefits from a bad design in how experience is calculated, nothing to do with how he fared in the game.

How can you think I try to brag when I openly state that I'm the worst player of the game? I'm good, don't get me wrong, but I'm still the weakest player on the team when I use an Adept (other than Fury). Curiously, I can never get the same score with any other class, just like if there was something special with Adepts, something like biotic explosions that give way too much experience...

how  did i take it out of context?...you said you top the scoreboard 99% of the time using biotics (adepts), correct?...if that's the case, how are they weaker to you?

so now it's about the number of medals you get? lol whatever....medals dont matter...if you topping the scoreboard, that means you doing damage and scoring...

the worst player not gonna top the scoreboard...so yea, you must be trying to brag about your skills...i wish you were on playstation, i'd **** on you just to shut you up...you claim one stance, yet you say something else that disproves that stance...i'm done with this topic and you...biotics arent 'weaker' than other character types...

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

add human adept to the list of 'exceptions"
the class is amazing and has 0 limitations.

add all the biotics to that list of exceptions...they just talking out they ass lol

[whateverman7]

starlitegirlx wrote...

You know, while on the topic, I never figured out the logic behind weapon weight and biotic recharge. Whatever logic will be given will by nature not be logic but some kind of justification. It's game magic. A biotic is going to recharge their powers no matter what weight the weapon they are carrying is. There is zero logic to weapons. Also, there's no logic to them being so squishy. ME logic is illogical.

Of course krogans, turians and batarians will be stronger with more health and shields. They are warriors. But if you go by the game before MP, adepts weren't squishy. Sure, they wore lightweight armor (but it still had good shields as you leveled up) and they were pistols only, but because they generally didn't need stronger weapons except at first. But then weapons and weapon skills became the norm in ME2 as ME got mainstreamed. By ME3 it's totally mainstream and no longer even follows it's own design.

about weapon weight, there is logic...the more weight you can carry easily, the faster your recharge gonna be...means you can carry heavier weight better...if i can carry 200 lbs easy, means my recharge gonna be faster....if i cant, means it wont

[whateverman7]

poonts wrote...

and then there's the fury...

there's more than the fury...i wish this myth would go away already...there are more biotics that are good than the fury

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Science & tech trumps magic all the time...

[darkpassenger2342]

whateverman7 wrote...

poonts wrote...

and then there's the fury...

there's more than the fury...i wish this myth would go away already...there are more biotics that are good than the fury

 yes, like the justicar with warp ammo on a powerful AR is out of this world in terms of potential dps.

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

 yes, like the justicar with warp ammo on a powerful AR is out of this world in terms of potential dps.

the justicar without warp ammo on a powerful AR is out of this worl....but i know, they gonna say 'i'm talking about gold/plat'....like they the only ones that play it <_<

[TheThirdRace]

whateverman7 wrote...

TheThirdRace wrote...

If you take something out of context you can make it tell whatever you want. I took the liberty to repeat the whole discussion with the other guy so you can see the reasonning behind it.

As you can read, I top the scoreboard BUT with only 3 medals and less kills than everyone else. Biotic explosions give a ridiculous amount of experience. If I can pull 25 kills with BE, I've got more than 75% of that score done. Killing a Canibal with Warp will give me something like 300 experience while killing it with a biotic explosion will give me more than 3 times as much.

Because of biotic explosions giving that much experience, I can top the scoreboard even by being the worst player of the game. You cannot base yourself on the scoreboard when it comes to Biotics because of this. My score means nothing, only that I managed to pull off some biotic explosions along the way and that's it. The other players killed much more enemies than me and at a faster pace too. Would you say a character would be overpowered if he had a score of 100k for 5 melee kills while doing nothing else for the remaining of the game? No, I would say he benefits from a bad design in how experience is calculated, nothing to do with how he fared in the game.

How can you think I try to brag when I openly state that I'm the worst player of the game? I'm good, don't get me wrong, but I'm still the weakest player on the team when I use an Adept (other than Fury). Curiously, I can never get the same score with any other class, just like if there was something special with Adepts, something like biotic explosions that give way too much experience...

how  did i take it out of context?...you said you top the scoreboard 99% of the time using biotics (adepts), correct?...if that's the case, how are they weaker to you?

so now it's about the number of medals you get? lol whatever....medals dont matter...if you topping the scoreboard, that means you doing damage and scoring...

the worst player not gonna top the scoreboard...so yea, you must be trying to brag about your skills...i wish you were on playstation, i'd **** on you just to shut you up...you claim one stance, yet you say something else that disproves that stance...i'm done with this topic and you...biotics arent 'weaker' than other character types...

Yet you still fail to adress my argumentation and keep repeating your opinion like a broken disk.

In the example I gave you, I'm the worst player of the game, yet I top the scoreboard.

I explained it's because killing with a biotic explosion give more experience than killing by any other means. This mean, I have to do about 1/3 of the damage to score the same as anyone else.

All you reply to this is by saying I'm trying to brag? You really cannot say anything about what I just explain? You really can't wrap your head around this or what?

Making it real simple for you...

Adept: 25 kills + 50 assists + 10 biotic kills + worst player of the game = Top scoreboard

I gave you real answer to explain this: biotic explosions give ridiculous experience. Whether you chose to see it or not, I cannot explain more clearly.

[whateverman7]

TheThirdRace wrote...

Yet you still fail to adress my argumentation and keep repeating your opinion like a broken disk.

In the example I gave you, I'm the worst player of the game, yet I top the scoreboard.

I explained it's because killing with a biotic explosion give more experience than killing by any other means. This mean, I have to do about 1/3 of the damage to score the same as anyone else.

All you reply to this is by saying I'm trying to brag? You really cannot say anything about what I just explain? You really can't wrap your head around this or what?

Making it real simple for you...

Adept: 25 kills + 50 assists + 10 biotic kills + worst player of the game = Top scoreboard

I gave you real answer to explain this: biotic explosions give ridiculous experience. Whether you chose to see it or not, I cannot explain more clearly.

i understand everything you said, but  you fail to see how those statements contradict each other....the worse player is not gonnna top the scoreboard...nor is the weakest character gonna top the scoreboard...and if you put those together: the worse player using the weakest character is not gonna top the scoreboard...it doesnt matter how the points are calculated...

you think the characters are weak cause you didnt earn a lot of medals or you had a low Biotic kill medal; yet all evidence points to the character not being as weak as you claim/think

[TheThirdRace]

whateverman7 wrote...

TheThirdRace wrote...

Yet you still fail to adress my argumentation and keep repeating your opinion like a broken disk.

In the example I gave you, I'm the worst player of the game, yet I top the scoreboard.

I explained it's because killing with a biotic explosion give more experience than killing by any other means. This mean, I have to do about 1/3 of the damage to score the same as anyone else.

All you reply to this is by saying I'm trying to brag? You really cannot say anything about what I just explain? You really can't wrap your head around this or what?

Making it real simple for you...

Adept: 25 kills + 50 assists + 10 biotic kills + worst player of the game = Top scoreboard

I gave you real answer to explain this: biotic explosions give ridiculous experience. Whether you chose to see it or not, I cannot explain more clearly.

i understand everything you said, but  you fail to see how those statements contradict each other....the worse player is not gonnna top the scoreboard...nor is the weakest character gonna top the scoreboard...and if you put those together: the worse player using the weakest character is not gonna top the scoreboard...it doesnt matter how the points are calculated...

you think the characters are weak cause you didnt earn a lot of medals or you had a low Biotic kill medal; yet all evidence points to the character not being as weak as you claim/think

Well, if you cannot understand that using powers give you more experience, I guess I'm wasting my time.

Although I must ask you how come a Silver player can realize that by himself while you just can't with your extensive experience? Link

Modifié par TheThirdRace, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:25 .

[QSec]

Dream-Maker wrote...

Biotic explosions still are the strongest type of explosion anyway, this in itself is a great advantage to biotic characters. And mind you, almost everyone suffers from ammo powers setting up tech explosions. A human engineer built around incinerate/overload explosions for example will also see his DPS go down if someone else constantly primes his target with incendiary or disruptor ammo. Because tech explosions that come from ammo are weaker than those coming from level 6 powers.

True, we are framing it around biotics, but an engineer that uses powers
to set-up tech explosions is impacted as well.  Good point.  (will stop equipping warp ammo on pug games with engineers)

Anyway, playing as a biotic character you shouldn't rely ONLY on biotic explosions and base your entire strategy around keeping the lowest cooldown possible to make the most biotic booms in one match.

Generally speaking, isn't that what the Adept class is designed for?  Each has, at least, 2 powers that can be combined to create a BE.  If an adept is going to use their biotics to supplement weapon damage, then why not just play as a Sentinel and get the extra damage protection? 

[Bleachrude]

Isnt this more an issue of how the game calculates points...

Say a TGI with a harrier and warp ammo is up against a brute that has only been hit by a turian sentinel. using warp....

Yet if the TGI kills him, the TGI player gets more points from the kill than the turian sentinel even though one could argue the WARP thrown by the sentinel player easily accounts for half of the damage.

(Warp' expose and pierce evolutions combined with the bonus from warp ammo imakes even platinum brutes roll over)

Yet the scoreboard will simply give you an assist point...

This applies to many of the debuff powers I think....which are mostly the purview of the "wizard/caster" classes like the adept and engineer...

[QSec]

Bleachrude wrote...

Isnt this more an issue of how the game calculates points...

Say a TGI with a harrier and warp ammo is up against a brute that has only been hit by a turian sentinel. using warp....

Yet if the TGI kills him, the TGI player gets more points from the kill than the turian sentinel even though one could argue the WARP thrown by the sentinel player easily accounts for half of the damage.

(Warp' expose and pierce evolutions combined with the bonus from warp ammo imakes even platinum brutes roll over)

Yet the scoreboard will simply give you an assist point...

This applies to many of the debuff powers I think....which are mostly the purview of the "wizard/caster" classes like the adept and engineer...

I think debating how scores are calculated is not really the issue here.  Not that it isn't a valid point and worthy of discussion, but not why TheThirdRace started this topic.  Points (in this discussion) are not relevant. 

The question, especially with the newer tech explosion capability and the proliferation of ammo consumable usage, is if biotic skills/builds are as efficient as weapons-based skills/builds for dispatching enemy units? 

[whateverman7]

TheThirdRace wrote...

Well, if you cannot understand that using powers give you more experience, I guess I'm wasting my time.

Although I must ask you how come a Silver player can realize that by himself while you just can't with your extensive experience? Link

well, if you can't understand that the worst player using the supposedly weakest character is not gonna top the scoreboard 99% of the time (as you claim), i'm wasting my time....that says either you're not the worst player or the character isnt as weak as you claim...

actually i have realized it....realized it a long time ago, i just dont care....when i play, i dont care about who scores the highest...i play to get the job done, meaning extracting....

edit: had to come back and lol at your 'silver' player label...you sound like you think you're above him....which further lets me know you just trying to brag about your skills without being upfront about it...hence the reasons you keep mentioning about playing plat games and topping the score board 99% of the time while using such a 'weak' character type..

Modifié par whateverman7, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:22 .

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

I think debating how scores are calculated is not really the issue here.  Not that it isn't a valid point and worthy of discussion, but not why TheThirdRace started this topic.  Points (in this discussion) are not relevant. 

The question, especially with the newer tech explosion capability and the proliferation of ammo consumable usage, is if biotic skills/builds are as efficient as weapons-based skills/builds for dispatching enemy units? 

to answer that question: yes, they are

[TheThirdRace]

QSec wrote...

I think debating how scores are calculated is not really the issue here.  Not that it isn't a valid point and worthy of discussion, but not why TheThirdRace started this topic.  Points (in this discussion) are not relevant. 

The question, especially with the newer tech explosion capability and the proliferation of ammo consumable usage, is if biotic skills/builds are as efficient as weapons-based skills/builds for dispatching enemy units? 

QSec is right, I brought up the way points are calculated to prove that the scoreboard doesn't mean squat to determine the effectiveness of Adepts. I didn't start that topic though, I only contributed.

[TheThirdRace]

whateverman7 wrote...

edit: had to come back and lol at your 'silver' player label...you sound like you think you're above him....which further lets me know you just trying to brag about your skills without being upfront about it...hence the reasons you keep mentioning about playing plat games and topping the score board 99% of the time while using such a 'weak' character type..

I don't know that "silver" player, I never played with him either, I can only take his word when he's describing himself as a Silver player. Am I more skilled than him at this game? Probably, he branded himself as a Silver player and as far as I know, Silver is still less difficult than Platinum. Am I above him? No. If you can't see the difference then I'll just conclude you're a short sighted person.

[whateverman7]

TheThirdRace wrote...

I don't know that "silver" player, I never played with him either, I can only take his word when he's describing himself as a Silver player. Am I more skilled than him at this game? Probably, he branded himself as a Silver player and as far as I know, Silver is still less difficult than Platinum. Am I above him? No. If you can't see the difference then I'll just conclude you're a short sighted person.

not once in that thread did he call himself a silver player...he said 'while playing on silver'....you took that and labeled him a silver player, while also declaring you're probably better than him lol ....but i'm the short sighted one...lol ok