253 réponses à ce sujet

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

Totally agree, speccing our biotic characters for Biotic Explosions is gimping them because of teammate's ammo consumable overriding the warp prime and that shouldn't be.

lol yall are killing me...so, is there only 1 enemy in the game and everyone is shooting at it? cause that's how yall sound...'i cant do my BE because they keep shooting it'...like i said in an earlier post: i thought this thread was about whether or not biotics are weaker than non-biotics, but it's really aboutbeing upset others are taking points away...i dont care about that...

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

Yes. I thought TheThirdRace was saying their cooldown timers could be adjusted to bring their DPS more in line with weapon-based counterparts. I agree with his math. Personally, I think this is by design that purely biotics-based characters fit somewhere in between level 1 weapons and level 10.

I do think they should do something about ammo consumables causing issues with priming for BE, though.

DPS doesnt matter, why do yall care about that so much?....anyway, he did say adjust the cooldowns, and i said they'd be overpowered at that point....which you're kinda admitting by saying limit the weapons they use on 'pure' biotics...why would you need to limit the weapons used?.....also, what is a 'pure' biotic?...

[QSec]

whateverman7 wrote...

so you're upset they changed it that all the explosions are equal now in the manner they go off?....lol...how does that make sense? how does that show biotics are weaker?......it doesnt because it's not true....the change didnt do anything to BEs, you can still do them as easily as before....also, you said i wasnt being fair, but you think it was fair that the other explosions didnt work like BEs...if they changed it the other way, made BEs work like the other explosions, you'd really be upset lol

How can you do them as easily as before?  If you are playing with 3 squadmates with ammo consumables on their weapons - you will rarely be able to generate a BE unless you run to the other side of the map and fight alone. 
It wasn't fair before that tech explosions could only be generated by killing the opponent.  They fixed that, and they should have.  At this point, it seems, to me, the most fair to have tech detonators detonate tech priming and biotic detontators detonate biotic priming. 

[Bonza99]

The sound effect of a biotic explosion, and even better a Fury or Human Adept chaining biotic explosions is worth it alone. Human Adept is massively powerful with an acolyte and % increases to biotic explosions. If you're not finding it effective for gold/plat then try a different loadout/strategy.

[QSec]

whateverman7 wrote...
like i said in an earlier post: i thought this thread was about whether or not biotics are weaker than non-biotics, but it's really aboutbeing upset others are taking points away...i dont care about that...

A biotic specced for explosions that can't detonate his explosions is a detriminate to the team.

whateverman7 wrote...
DPS doesnt matter, why do yall care about that so much?

DPS matters.  As a biotic, I need to boost the DPS of my teammates, generate DPS directly to kill enemies and/or improve the damage protection of the unit. 

[Moxy_Pirate]

Is OP playing the same game I am. Biotic Characters are just fine. You can do LOADS of damage with them.

[QSec]

Bonza99 wrote...

The sound effect of a biotic explosion, and even better a Fury or Human Adept chaining biotic explosions is worth it alone. Human Adept is massively powerful with an acolyte and % increases to biotic explosions. If you're not finding it effective for gold/plat then try a different loadout/strategy.

One of the great things about the way that Bioware seems to approach these multiplayer changes each week is to adjust the effectiveness of the weapons/powers.  The idea is that we don't all just run around with N7 Destroyer's and Typhoon X assault rifles because they have the highest DPS.  They want to maintain the variety in the gameplay.  The Widow was a fine sniper rifle.  They did a slight damage boost a couple of weeks ago because it was a little weak in comparison to other weapons.   Nobody said the Widow sucks and now the Widow is overpowered.  It was a minor change. 
The argument isn't that you can't do damage with biotics.  As previously noted, TheThirdRace is doing speedruns on Platinum with his biotics in 21-22 minutes (obviously more capable than me, I am sad to say).  The argument is that they aren't AS effective.  And the difference is slight, but there.  And maybe a minor adjustment wouldn't be a bad idea to keep the biotic classes relevant. 

[ParanoidDrone]

whateverman7 wrote...

the changes to tech/cyro were neccessary because you couldnt set them off as easy as BEs...they now go off as easily as BEs do...that change doesnt negate/nullify BEs, BEs still go off as easily as they did before the change...

no, i havent talked about extra damage....BEs still do whatever level of damage they do...not being able to do them all the time doesnt mean they are weaker than before or other explosions...your gun line doesnt make sense nor apply because no one has mentioned taking power away....

so you're upset they changed it that all the explosions are equal now in the manner they go off?....lol...how does that make sense? how does that show biotics are weaker?......it doesnt because it's not true....the change didnt do anything to BEs, you can still do them as easily as before....also, you said i wasnt being fair, but you think it was fair that the other explosions didnt work like BEs...if they changed it the other way, made BEs work like the other explosions, you'd really be upset lol

there is no power problem...BEs are still as powerful as ever....and no, my solution isnt just use a gun...i mention using a gun cause the game is setup for you to use a combo of both (powers/weapons), not just do all of 1 thing...i've said, when i play as adepts my powers are first, guns are secondary....that doesnt mean i use the worst gun, but i do use 1....

like i said: it's not the game, it's you that's gimping the character...but since you cant play the game how you want, it must be something wrong with the game....good ole bsn lol

On paper, biotic combos are unchanged, but bear in mind the following:

-Tech combos can be set off by most powers, including biotics.
-Tech combos can now be set off without killing the target.
-Tech combos can be primed by ammo mods.
-Incendiary/Cryo/Disruptor ammo mods are now quite popular due to the previous two points.
-Combo primers are applied to the target in a stack, where the last primer applied is the first one detonated.

In combination, this means that unless you have dedicated pairs of biotics working in concert, it's increasingly difficult to detonate your own biotic combos because your teammates keep layering their own non-biotic primers on top of the primer stack.  This severly cuts the DPS of biotic combos due to having to cast the detonator twice, sometimes more if you're unlucky or your teammates are spamming Overload, etc. alongside you.

It's true that tech combos do damage, but they don't do as much damage as biotic combos, especially vs. armor and barriers, and ammo primers count as level 1, which cuts their damage further.  Not to mention that biotic combos can only be detonated by biotic abilities, unlike tech combos which can be detonated by pretty much anything.  So the most powerful combo in the game can only be detonated by a select subset of powers, but that same subset keeps detonating other combo types instead, which somewhat wastes their potential.

That is the issue at hand.

[Siriai]

This is a good question, and I can only speak for myself: With an N7 Fury I can destroy a map with the Annihilation Field/Throw combo, the Asari with Reave/Pull, etc. It combos well with the guys that play tech in my squad.

[TheThirdRace]

Siriai wrote...

This is a good question, and I can only speak for myself: With an N7 Fury I can destroy a map with the Annihilation Field/Throw combo, the Asari with Reave/Pull, etc. It combos well with the guys that play tech in my squad.

Anihilation Field + Throw as technically no cooldown for a biotic explosion.
Pull + Reave have a 1.28 seconds cooldown for a biotic explosion.

Both given example are very good combos that work well only because you can detonate your biotic explosion before someone else prime the target with fire/cryo/tech. So telling Adepts don't need a slight balance change based on combos that practically don't have a cooldown just reinforce my point.

People see Adepts + underpowered and they think "No, the Fury isn't" There are other Adepts you know. The Fury doesn't have a problem, the Human Adept, the Phoenix, the Shaman and the Asari do. The fact that ammo consumables is taking priority over their biotic explosions lessen their damage output because they can't pull off biotic explosions as easy as before.

[TheThirdRace]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

On paper, biotic combos are unchanged, but bear in mind the following:

-Tech combos can be set off by most powers, including biotics.
-Tech combos can now be set off without killing the target.
-Tech combos can be primed by ammo mods.
-Incendiary/Cryo/Disruptor ammo mods are now quite popular due to the previous two points.
-Combo primers are applied to the target in a stack, where the last primer applied is the first one detonated.

In combination, this means that unless you have dedicated pairs of biotics working in concert, it's increasingly difficult to detonate your own biotic combos because your teammates keep layering their own non-biotic primers on top of the primer stack.  This severly cuts the DPS of biotic combos due to having to cast the detonator twice, sometimes more if you're unlucky or your teammates are spamming Overload, etc. alongside you.

It's true that tech combos do damage, but they don't do as much damage as biotic combos, especially vs. armor and barriers, and ammo primers count as level 1, which cuts their damage further.  Not to mention that biotic combos can only be detonated by biotic abilities, unlike tech combos which can be detonated by pretty much anything.  So the most powerful combo in the game can only be detonated by a select subset of powers, but that same subset keeps detonating other combo types instead, which somewhat wastes their potential.

That is the issue at hand.

And that's what I'm trying to explain to Whateverman7, but he just don't see it. Oh, and he will insult you for pointing it to him... "good old bsners" as he says ...

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

still dominate will biotics, but tech people will annoy you so stay away from them.

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

How can you do them as easily as before?  If you are playing with 3 squadmates with ammo consumables on their weapons - you will rarely be able to generate a BE unless you run to the other side of the map and fight alone. 
It wasn't fair before that tech explosions could only be generated by killing the opponent.  They fixed that, and they should have.  At this point, it seems, to me, the most fair to have tech detonators detonate tech priming and biotic detontators detonate biotic priming. 

how can i do them so easily? the same way i did them before...using whatever biotic character i'm using....even when others are using consumables....

also: i've said i dont care who does what as long as the job gets done...if i dont set off as many BEs as i could because of my teammates, i couldnt care less cause it's a team game...if all i cared about was my BEs, i'd solo

what you're saying is different then what third proposed....even then, i dont think it's neccessary cause it's a team game, the individual stats shouldnt matter

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

A biotic specced for explosions that can't detonate his explosions is a detriminate to the team.

again: if that's all you are relying on, it's you that's holding the character back, not the game/your teammates...i say that cause all my adepts are specced for explosions, but when i dont set off BEs all the time, i'm not a detriment to the team

DPS matters.  As a biotic, I need to boost the DPS of my teammates, generate DPS directly to kill enemies and/or improve the damage protection of the unit. 

DPS does not matter...it's a useless spreadsheet stat...

[whateverman7]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

On paper, biotic combos are unchanged, but bear in mind the following:

-Tech combos can be set off by most powers, including biotics.
-Tech combos can now be set off without killing the target.
-Tech combos can be primed by ammo mods.
-Incendiary/Cryo/Disruptor ammo mods are now quite popular due to the previous two points.
-Combo primers are applied to the target in a stack, where the last primer applied is the first one detonated.

In combination, this means that unless you have dedicated pairs of biotics working in concert, it's increasingly difficult to detonate your own biotic combos because your teammates keep layering their own non-biotic primers on top of the primer stack.  This severly cuts the DPS of biotic combos due to having to cast the detonator twice, sometimes more if you're unlucky or your teammates are spamming Overload, etc. alongside you.

It's true that tech combos do damage, but they don't do as much damage as biotic combos, especially vs. armor and barriers, and ammo primers count as level 1, which cuts their damage further.  Not to mention that biotic combos can only be detonated by biotic abilities, unlike tech combos which can be detonated by pretty much anything.  So the most powerful combo in the game can only be detonated by a select subset of powers, but that same subset keeps detonating other combo types instead, which somewhat wastes their potential.

That is the issue at hand.

i understand what you, third, and others are saying about not being able to do BEs are the time...i understand the issue at hand, i just dont think it's bad as yall are saying...doing BEs is still as easy as it was before...do you do them all the time now? no, but you can do them a lot still...i'm saying this from experience as the only adept in games....

that's why i disagreed with what this thread was originally about 'biotics being weaker than other character types'....

[whateverman7]

TheThirdRace wrote...

And that's what I'm trying to explain to Whateverman7, but he just don't see it. Oh, and he will insult you for pointing it to him... "good old bsners" as he says ...

i see it, i just dont agree based on my experience in the game (what i've done or seen)..it's not a problem like you're trying to make it out to be...

i dont insult people on here cause it's not that serious to me.....we're just stating opinions....also, i only say 'good ole bsn' when it's needed...not once in his post did he question intelligence, reading comprehension, etc....so it's not needed.....he stated his opinion on the my post and kept it civil, unlike what others have done...

[QSec]

whateverman7 wrote...

i understand what you, third, and others are saying about not being able to do BEs are the time...i understand the issue at hand, i just dont think it's bad as yall are saying...doing BEs is still as easy as it was before...do you do them all the time now? no, but you can do them a lot still...i'm saying this from experience as the only adept in games....

that's why i disagreed with what this thread was originally about 'biotics being weaker than other character types'....

If I spec Adept spec for BE and throw a light weapon on like an Acolyte.  I can throw a BE every 3.26 seconds.  That is 4366 damage every 3.26 seconds.  You are saying if I can only BE less,  let say every other time, reducing damage output from 1339/sec to 669/sec isn't that bad? 

[TheThirdRace]

QSec wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...

i understand what you, third, and others are saying about not being able to do BEs are the time...i understand the issue at hand, i just dont think it's bad as yall are saying...doing BEs is still as easy as it was before...do you do them all the time now? no, but you can do them a lot still...i'm saying this from experience as the only adept in games....

that's why i disagreed with what this thread was originally about 'biotics being weaker than other character types'....

If I spec Adept spec for BE and throw a light weapon on like an Acolyte.  I can throw a BE every 3.26 seconds.  That is 4366 damage every 3.26 seconds.  You are saying if I can only BE less,  let say every other time, reducing damage output from 1339/sec to 669/sec isn't that bad? 

No what he says is you are the problem. Slap a big gun on it and play like a Soldier. Your DPS will be greater and you can still use your powers whenever you can. Problem solved.

If you think biotic explosions are the bread and butter of an Adept, you're doing it wrong. Use your powers as often as possible and the big gun will be your saving grace. Bioctic explosions are secondary and shouldn't be relied upon.

Modifié par TheThirdRace, 08 novembre 2012 - 03:23 .

[NuclearTech76]

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

Is OP playing the same game I am. Biotic Characters are just fine. You can do LOADS of damage with them.

The problem is other characters can do loads more damage than you can.

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

If I spec Adept spec for BE and throw a light weapon on like an Acolyte.  I can throw a BE every 3.26 seconds.  That is 4366 damage every 3.26 seconds.  You are saying if I can only BE less,  let say every other time, reducing damage output from 1339/sec to 669/sec isn't that bad? 

huh?...what are you talking about?...not once have i said the damage of a BE was reduced....i said how often you do them might have been reduced because of the change to the other explosions, but that still doesnt make biotics weaker....going by your example: instead of doing a BE every 3.26 secs, you're doing one every 7.52 secs (that's every other time).....that isnt bad nor does that make biotics weaker that you shouldnt play them

[whateverman7]

TheThirdRace wrote...

No what he says is you are the problem. Slap a big gun on it and play like a Soldier. Your DPS will be greater and you can still use your powers whenever you can. Problem solved.

If you think biotic explosions are the bread and butter of an Adept, you're doing it wrong. Use your powers as often as possible and the big gun will be your saving grace. Bioctic explosions are secondary and shouldn't be relied upon.

lol....when/where have i said slap a big gun on?...never...i have said in conjunction with your powers, you should use your weapon(s)...

when/where have i said BEs are secondary on biotic characters?...never...i have said that when i play biotic characters, my powers are first, weapons are secondary....that means inbetween BEs and power usage cooldowns, i do shoot enemies....i know, a novel concept...

are you doing it wrong? that's not my place to say....you play the game how you like....all i've been doing is stating how i think if the cooldowns were lowered on biotics, they'd be overpowered....cause they do damn well right now with the supposed cooldown & BE problems you keep mentioning....

[Schneidend]

Biotic characters can't be all bad. Still tons of people using biotics and Biotic Explosions are still an excellent way to shred through spawns.

[QSec]

whateverman7 wrote...

huh?...what are you talking about?...not once have i said the damage of a BE was reduced....i said how often you do them might have been reduced because of the change to the other explosions, but that still doesnt make biotics weaker....going by your example: instead of doing a BE every 3.26 secs, you're doing one every 7.52 secs (that's every other time).....that isnt bad nor does that make biotics weaker that you shouldnt play them

So if every other bullet in your gun didn't do any damage, it wouldn't make you weaker? 

[whateverman7]

QSec wrote...

So if every other bullet in your gun didn't do any damage, it wouldn't make you weaker? 

not a good comparison....cause even if you arent doing BEs, you're still doing damage with your powers...that warp you used, is doing damage even if you dont detonate it...same goes for dark channel, reave, af, etc....they are still doing damage even if you dont set them off....but for some reason yall are ignoring that....

[TheThirdRace]

whateverman7 wrote...

QSec wrote...

So if every other bullet in your gun didn't do any damage, it wouldn't make you weaker? 

not a good comparison....cause even if you arent doing BEs, you're still doing damage with your powers...that warp you used, is doing damage even if you dont detonate it...same goes for dark channel, reave, af, etc....they are still doing damage even if you dont set them off....but for some reason yall are ignoring that....

" So if every other bullet in your gun did 10% of it's normal damage, it wouldn't make you weaker? "

Is is a better comparison now? I'll say it again, you're very very picky, as if you just don't want to hear it... Even if you are right to say Warp will still do damage, 400 damage compared to 4000 from a BE on Platinum is kind of a big step if you ask me...

Saying that doing less BE doesn't make you weaker sounds like BS to me. But that's only backed by my own experience and mathematics, so who knows...

Modifié par TheThirdRace, 08 novembre 2012 - 10:07 .