53 réponses à ce sujet

[Shampoohorn]

Cyonan wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...
There are no "support" characters. The objective is to kill as fast as possible. No matter how well you "support" if you can't deal enough damage - all the "support" is useless.

The amount of fail in this post...

AQ is correct.  The volus are the closest thing to a support character, but in traditional sense (wrt video games) there are no true tanks, healers, etc. in ME3 MP.

Being that this isn't an rpg that utilizes the holy trinity there isn't tanks, healers, or damage dealers.

There is varying levels of durability, utility, and damage output though. You can build a character thats got a lot more utility at the cost of damage output or survivability, and any other manner of character you want.

It's only "useless" if all you care about is the little number in the top right after a game that tells you how long the game took.

Agreed.  Support is not useless, but nor is AQ's post a 'fail' post.  Ahhhh, nuance.

[Invader Nemesis]

Yeah she is amazing. I use the warp bubble. I never really see anyone besides myself use it. I find a hard time understanding, the bubble is amazing.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I think she is not a popular character because:
1) Bioware is trying to force a run and gun playstyle on all maps with all characters and punishing defensive play.
2) Protected enemies are immune to pull. The acolyte solves this to some extent against lesser enemies.
3) She can't detonate on bosses unless she uses a bubble, which can't be cast from a distance on a boss.

[joker_jack]

Air Quotes wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Phoenix535 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

There are no "support" characters. The objective is to kill as fast as possible. No matter how well you "support" if you can't deal enough damage - all the "support" is useless.

except for the fact that support can keep everyone alive and kicking when other sqauds wouldve died out. also, since when was the objective of this game to kill as FAST as possible, while I may say its genrally a mark of an effcient team, it is by no means what you must do to win a match.

P.S. EVERYONE gets a gun

I said if you CAN'T deal enough damage on your own with a support class, all your support is useless. And keeping your team alive just delays the innevitable on higher difficulties. 

STOP saying stuff like that!  My mind can only take a limited amount of fail every day and you have almost reached the max with your last 2 posts!

You people use excuses - "I'm a support character". All characters can dominate the scoreboard. And in this game only efficient killing matters. 

If dps is the be all end with you, then your a bigger idiot than we all thought You forget about things like an escort where a volus spaming shield boost is keeping you alive to the end of the objective while hoards of mooks shoot at you. Or the person setting up combos and stripping sheilds for others. All that contributes to the end result. If you only care about score and highest damage then your playing the wrong game. Simple as that jack hat.

[Maraloudus]

joker_jack wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Phoenix535 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

There are no "support" characters. The objective is to kill as fast as possible. No matter how well you "support" if you can't deal enough damage - all the "support" is useless.

except for the fact that support can keep everyone alive and kicking when other sqauds wouldve died out. also, since when was the objective of this game to kill as FAST as possible, while I may say its genrally a mark of an effcient team, it is by no means what you must do to win a match.

P.S. EVERYONE gets a gun

I said if you CAN'T deal enough damage on your own with a support class, all your support is useless. And keeping your team alive just delays the innevitable on higher difficulties. 

STOP saying stuff like that!  My mind can only take a limited amount of fail every day and you have almost reached the max with your last 2 posts!

You people use excuses - "I'm a support character". All characters can dominate the scoreboard. And in this game only efficient killing matters. 

If dps is the be all end with you, then your a bigger idiot than we all thought You forget about things like an escort where a volus spaming shield boost is keeping you alive to the end of the objective while hoards of mooks shoot at you. Or the person setting up combos and stripping sheilds for others. All that contributes to the end result. If you only care about score and highest damage then your playing the wrong game. Simple as that jack hat.

^This 

[corporal doody]

the entire notice of the Asari Justicar being classified as "SUPPORT" by SOME folks here on the BSN upsets and saddens me to no end.

WTF about her makes her fit into a "SUPPORT" role? WTF is "support"?

the whole..."you need another biotic with her for full potential" is the biggest load of GARBAGE i have heard next to the whole horsecrap of Lone Wolf being the only BANNER that takes skill to get. That can be said FOR any biotic or tech character. More than one is always better.

I'll be damned if i join a match as a AJ and feel like i need to play as someone's BACKUP cuz someone thinks a AJ is only support.

you know what....nah man...nah...this whole AJ = Support is utter BS.

Modifié par corporal doody, 01 novembre 2012 - 03:37 .

[SquintSky12]

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

[corporal doody]

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

[KineticSymphony]

corporal doody wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

Are you seriously incapable of putting two and two together? Justicar is one the few kits that offers an ability that can be specced to reduce incoming damage to their team within the Bubble. That can be considered support.WHY??because it doesnt just affect the user it affects the team mates around the user. Just like Volus shield boost restores team mates shields. That is support. Someone that uses a medi-gel equipment that applies to folk within a vicinity is support.

[UTK_VBall55]

corporal doody wrote...

the entire notice of the Asari Justicar being classified as "SUPPORT" by SOME folks here on the BSN upsets and saddens me to no end.

WTF about her makes her fit into a "SUPPORT" role? WTF is "support"?

the whole..."you need another biotic with her for full potential" is the biggest load of GARBAGE i have heard next to the whole horsecrap of Lone Wolf being the only BANNER that takes skill to get. That can be said FOR any biotic or tech character. More than one is always better.

I'll be damned if i join a match as a AJ and feel like i need to play as someone's BACKUP cuz someone thinks a AJ is only support.

you know what....nah man...nah...this whole AJ = Support is utter BS.

She's not a "support" class, IMO the only thing that game has that's really a "support" class is the volus.  That being said, a DEFENSIVE bubble justicar does have much more of a "support" element than most non-volus characters.  On the other hand, an offensive bubble justicar can be very offensive.

But you are definately wrong about "you need another biotic with her for her full potential."  Don't get me wrong, I love the justicar and she can still be VERY effective in a team with no other biotics.  But for her "full" potential, you need somebody else detonating reaves on bosses.

Look at two regular asari adepts.  How do they synergize?  1 Adept alone would alternate warp and throw.  2 adepts... will still probably both just alternate warp and throw.  It's the same thing, but doubled 2.

But say you have a justicar, attacking a larger boss.  She's spamming reave while shooting a hurricane or something.  That's good, yes.  But if you also have a Turian Sentinel spamming warp, you are now setting off a lot of biotic explosions, which you weren't previously getting.

Yeah, two engineers or something can set off each other's tech bursts.  But they could just as easily set off their OWN tech bursts, something the justicar can not really do by herself, other than once with an offensive bubble, if it touches an enemy (against large bosses, obviously she can acolyte / pull / war other stuff).

Modifié par UTK_VBall55, 01 novembre 2012 - 03:52 .

[NuclearTech76]

Trying to keep a group of randoms in that bubble is like herding cats. Play her offensively and kill everything, that's all the support a decent squad needs.

[corporal doody]

KineticSymphony wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

Are you seriously incapable of putting two and two together? Justicar is one the few kits that offers an ability that can be specced to reduce incoming damage to their team within the Bubble. That can be considered support.WHY??because it doesnt just affect the user it affects the team mates around the user. Just like Volus shield boost restores team mates shields. That is support. Someone that uses a medi-gel equipment that applies to folk within a vicinity is support.

WELL hey there smart guy I R NO GOOD AT THE MATH...SO BY YOUR REASONING a AJ is support BY DEFAULT!  Her bubble which CAN BE SET UP FOR defence (should a person so choose) MAKES HER a support a character???  I must have been playing the AJ wrong this ENTIRE time!!

A:Hey there....did you know you didnt have to set it up for a defensive bubble??

B: WTF? man are you crazy?

A: yeah dude! space magic....you can make a offensive bubble or a mix of the two!

B: wait wait....but then i wouldnt be support...i would be something else!!

C: WHO THE F said you were support EVEN WITH A DEFENSIVE BUBBLE!!







BS!

[SquintSky12]

corporal doody wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

Your either incredibly stubborn, incredibly stupid, or just haven't unlocked the Justicar yet...In any case let me spell it out for you.

Defensive bubble is first and foremost in creating a support build for your Justicar.  Giving 40% DR to everyone inside the bubble as well as 10-25% faster shield recharge can make them a lot harder to kill.  Second is area reave.  On higher difficulties it wont be a heavy hitting power but you can source every damn thing around which means many many detonations from your biotic teammates with detonating powers.  If you want to take it a step further then you can put the Acolyte on her and strip everythings shields off which can be a great help to the team.

Of course none of it matters if you don't know how to play as a teammate.  Got to stick with your fellow players and know where the best strategic place is to drop your bubble and keep it up around your team as much as you can when you aren't on the move.  Works great for hack objectives or any other time where the team is stationary for more than a few seconds.  Keeping enemies sourced can greatly increase the number of detonations though they will likely be weaker than warp sourced targets since reave doesn't have a detonation evolution.  It does allow for efficient detonations on mooks without wasting the 3 or 4 seconds to warp them before detonating and can double the amount of detonations on boss types.  Vanguards will love you if you are a good sourcer since every charge will result in a biotic explosion if you are doing a good job of it.

[corporal doody]

UTK_VBall55 wrote...


But you are definately wrong about "you need another biotic with her for her full potential."  Don't get me wrong, I love the justicar and she can still be VERY effective in a team with no other biotics.  But for her "full" potential, you need somebody else detonating reaves on bosses.

No...you dont NEED someone else. You got teammates...sure....but if it came down to it...you dont NEED.  you drop Enough reaves and SHOOT at bosses...they gonna die in short order.  If the AJ is specced right...3-4 reaves drops a phantom. a few more can drop a brute.

people make it sound like she is handicapped. disagree

[corporal doody]

SquintSky12 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

Your either incredibly stubborn, incredibly stupid, or just haven't unlocked the Justicar yet...In any case let me spell it out for you.

Defensive bubble is first and foremost in creating a support build for your Justicar.  Giving 40% DR to everyone inside the bubble as well as 10-25% faster shield recharge can make them a lot harder to kill.  Second is area reave.  On higher difficulties it wont be a heavy hitting power but you can source every damn thing around which means many many detonations from your biotic teammates with detonating powers.  If you want to take it a step further then you can put the Acolyte on her and strip everythings shields off which can be a great help to the team.

Of course none of it matters if you don't know how to play as a teammate.  Got to stick with your fellow players and know where the best strategic place is to drop your bubble and keep it up around your team as much as you can when you aren't on the move.  Works great for hack objectives or any other time where the team is stationary for more than a few seconds.  Keeping enemies sourced can greatly increase the number of detonations though they will likely be weaker than warp sourced targets since reave doesn't have a detonation evolution.  It does allow for efficient detonations on mooks without wasting the 3 or 4 seconds to warp them before detonating and can double the amount of detonations on boss types.  Vanguards will love you if you are a good sourcer since every charge will result in a biotic explosion if you are doing a good job of it.

and throwing out insults doesnt make you right you JERK.


AND you can go both ways with the bubble.....or a mix.....HOW DOES IT classIFY HER as support???  and why would i want to use a defense bubble AND ONLY A DEFENSE bubble? THAT IS horsecrap. people that feel the WANT to spec her one way...then wanna say they need someone else with her?


my GT is the same as my username. look me up on xbox. Ill show you support.

[SquintSky12]

Seriously dude...change your f*cking tampon and stfu.  You're gonna give yourself an aneurism if you keep this up.

Modifié par SquintSky12, 01 novembre 2012 - 04:07 .

[ParkBom]

[KineticSymphony]

corporal doody wrote...

KineticSymphony wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

Are you seriously incapable of putting two and two together? Justicar is one the few kits that offers an ability that can be specced to reduce incoming damage to their team within the Bubble. That can be considered support.WHY??because it doesnt just affect the user it affects the team mates around the user. Just like Volus shield boost restores team mates shields. That is support. Someone that uses a medi-gel equipment that applies to folk within a vicinity is support.

WELL hey there smart guy I R NO GOOD AT THE MATH...SO BY YOUR REASONING a AJ is support BY DEFAULT!  Her bubble which CAN BE SET UP FOR defence (should a person so choose) MAKES HER a support a character???  I must have been playing the AJ wrong this ENTIRE time!!

A:Hey there....did you know you didnt have to set it up for a defensive bubble??

B: WTF? man are you crazy?

A: yeah dude! space magic....you can make a offensive bubble or a mix of the two!

B: wait wait....but then i wouldnt be support...i would be something else!!

C: WHO THE F said you were support EVEN WITH A DEFENSIVE BUBBLE!!







BS!

I'll skip the childish banter because you're putting my words out of context.Anyways.It's a general rule of thumb in games with RPG elements; that support is basically abilities that buff/help your team mates in a way that doesnt necessarily contribute to DPS. And a example of that would be the defensive bubble you can specc into as a justicar. If the player wants to play the defensive support role he can. You obviously follow  "A good offense is a good defense." role, which is fine. But that doesnt quite fall under as support as defensive abilities.

[DarkerCompanion]

Air Quotes wrote...

There are no "support" characters. The objective is to kill as fast as possible. No matter how well you "support" if you can't deal enough damage - all the "support" is useless.

My problem with many Volus players. You can say you helped out all you want, but at the end of the day, when players 1-3 scored between 90k-50k, and you are rocking 20k, there is a problem. You can't quantifiably prove you were making a difference, and I certainly don't feel like you were. The number of times I've been helped or saved by a timely shield boost is likely about a dozen, between twice as many games.

[corporal doody]

yeah buddy. you wanna say people that disagree with you are stupid but when they TAKE OFFENSE and dont back down you wanna call them children?

AHAHAHAHA!!

i love the BSN.

Modifié par corporal doody, 01 novembre 2012 - 04:30 .

[DSxCallOfBooty-]

As far as the AJ goes, playing her in a support role is certainly a viable option, worth trying. I personally prefer playing her with Warp Bubble/Reave with Warp Ammo on a BDS, usually with the Hurricane. It's fantastic.

For those who don't believe that there is such a thing as a support role, keep in mind that 98% of PUGs are incapable of properly playing one. While this game doesn't really have any dedicated "medics" or such, there are some classes that can really provide some survivability to the team as a whole. That said, I would agree that if most people in the match are in the 70k-90k range, it's hard to justify anything under 40k. Being a support character isn't an excuse to not hold the trigger down.

[corporal doody]

KineticSymphony wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

KineticSymphony wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

SquintSky12 wrote...

Who said they were only support? They have support builds but aren't restricted to it by any means.

Yeah..AND WTF IS SUPPORT?

What about her MAKES her support?  

Why cant EVERYOTHER character be considered SUPPORT? why would she stand out as SUPPORT?


and what BUILD would be a SUPPORT build?

Are you seriously incapable of putting two and two together? Justicar is one the few kits that offers an ability that can be specced to reduce incoming damage to their team within the Bubble. That can be considered support.WHY??because it doesnt just affect the user it affects the team mates around the user. Just like Volus shield boost restores team mates shields. That is support. Someone that uses a medi-gel equipment that applies to folk within a vicinity is support.

WELL hey there smart guy I R NO GOOD AT THE MATH...SO BY YOUR REASONING a AJ is support BY DEFAULT!  Her bubble which CAN BE SET UP FOR defence (should a person so choose) MAKES HER a support a character???  I must have been playing the AJ wrong this ENTIRE time!!

A:Hey there....did you know you didnt have to set it up for a defensive bubble??

B: WTF? man are you crazy?

A: yeah dude! space magic....you can make a offensive bubble or a mix of the two!

B: wait wait....but then i wouldnt be support...i would be something else!!

C: WHO THE F said you were support EVEN WITH A DEFENSIVE BUBBLE!!







BS!

I'll skip the childish banter because you're putting my words out of context.Anyways.It's a general rule of thumb in games with RPG elements; that support is basically abilities that buff/help your team mates in a way that doesnt necessarily contribute to DPS. And a example of that would be the defensive bubble you can specc into as a justicar. If the player wants to play the defensive support role he can. You obviously follow  "A good offense is a good defense." role, which is fine. But that doesnt quite fall under as support as defensive abilities.

now that is more sensible. but imho..a buff doesnt mean support...it means she is ABLE to buff. And just cuz a person can set up for a defensive bubble doesnt mean she is SUPPORT. that is kinda like saying a Geth Engineer that has a turret set up for shield recharge is SUPPORT. or the Demolisher is a support because her pylon can recharge shields. symmantics maybe?

Ive seen far too often this notion of the AJ being support....based solely on the a DEFENSIVE Bubble and the weird idea that SHE NEEDS ANOTHER BIOTIC.

i disagree.

but thank you for clarifiying your point.

Modifié par corporal doody, 01 novembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[corporal doody]

SquintSky12 wrote...

Seriously dude...change your f*cking tampon and stfu.  You're gonna give yourself an aneurism if you keep this up.

HAHAHAHA!!  i wanna be your friend.

[DarkAbsolution]

Lately I've been running the Justicar with any points in the bubble, and I like her that way. Full damage Reave, full evolutions on Pull for dealing with trash mobs with an Acolyte in hand to strip shields. Full health, which with the 40% DR that Reave gives, makes her about as tanky as a Destroyer, and full passives for maximum Reave damage + duration and high weapon bonus. Give her a light long range weapon to back up the Acolyte (I like the Indra), some warp ammo for a reave damage boost and she's a total beast on the battlefield.

[corporal doody]

DarkAbsolution wrote...

Lately I've been running the Justicar with any points in the bubble, and I like her that way. Full damage Reave, full evolutions on Pull for dealing with trash mobs with an Acolyte in hand to strip shields. Full health, which with the 40% DR that Reave gives, makes her about as tanky as a Destroyer, and full passives for maximum Reave damage + duration and high weapon bonus. Give her a light long range weapon to back up the Acolyte (I like the Indra), some warp ammo for a reave damage boost and she's a total beast on the battlefield.

yeah...warp ammo and maxed out reave is a vicious combo.

i personally love 6/6/4/6/4 with her (6/6/4/4/6 before they fixed that passive 5)...with a mattock or disciple.  Biotic Sphere setup for OFFENSE...aka WARP BUBBLE. she is a beast!!!