530 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

not exactly .. the essence is born through thhe death of shepard. it is shepards scion - not shepard itself.

the essence may evolve - but the foundation for its viewpoints, is set on the events while being alive for 31 years.

eternity is a long time to go ... what happens the moment the former loved ones die by the hands of others? ... will there be revenge?

I don't see it that way. It's a new form of Shepard. Like a program moving from one hard ware to the next.

my interpretation of the epilogue is different - but i respect your opinion. but the text is clear: 

"the man/woman i was used that words ... but now i only understand the means of his sacrafice. ... through his death, i was created, through my birth, his/her thoughts were freed. they guide me now. give me direction, give me reason" t

he essence speaks of shepard, as of an other person. the essence is based on shepard but it is only guided by the thoughts and memories of shepard.

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

What evidence? All it saysthat it was Human. That does not mean the AI no longer is Shepard.

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

not exactly .. the essence is born through thhe death of shepard. it is shepards scion - not shepard itself.

the essence may evolve - but the foundation for its viewpoints, is set on the events while being alive for 31 years.

eternity is a long time to go ... what happens the moment the former loved ones die by the hands of others? ... will there be revenge?

I don't see it that way. It's a new form of Shepard. Like a program moving from one hard ware to the next.

my interpretation of the epilogue is different - but i respect your opinion. but the text is clear: 

"the man/woman i was used that words ... but now i only understand the means of his sacrafice. ... through his death, i was created, through my birth, his/her thoughts were freed. they guide me now. give me direction, give me reason" t

he essence speaks of shepard, as of an other person. the essence is based on shepard but it is only guided by the thoughts and memories of shepard.

The prasing in the eplogue isthat the Shepard AI use to be human. Not use to be Shepard.
The statement "Man I was/Woman I was" mean it used to be a man/woman.

[Dr_Extrem]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

What? Memeories  are not fix points. They degrade over time. Emotions are based in the limbic system.

[AlanC9]

ghost9191 wrote...

saves more lives in the long run

sacrifice 1 for 5 or 5 for 1

It's even better than that, since the Reapers were going to destroy the geth anyway.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What statement would that be?

Dude, the game (and EC in particular) celebrates the virtue of 3 morally 'questionable' acts. Hey, at least you agree with me about the Geth.

So the statement is that using the Crucible produces better results than not using it? 

No, the statement is that the morally stunted have fewer issues playing through the end of that game than those who actually value the most basic, inalienable rights of others.

Sound more like you're too ground in you morals to make a choice. It not that no one thatpick does not regret the choice. It just that we understand the reality of the situation.

If staying grounded in you morality means every one unwillfully die because of it....Is it worth stay grounded in your morality?

You do understand that the ending is the geth choice all over agein?

Can I make you poster boy for the other side?

Oh come on.
You bring up the issue of the immoral concept the 3 choices have but ignore the fact that the results of not picking means death for all.

Are we really say you would let everyone die because of you morals. Added, you missed the concept that control is also willing lock you self with prisoners of a prison to make sure they don't escape. 
Control is the least moral conflicting choice.
It your so grounded in you morals, why not carry the world with them instead of letting it burn.

You’re the worst apologist ever - it's actually my point that the game sets things up in such a way as to force the player to choose between becoming a war criminal or condemning an entire galaxy to die. As for Control, even if one assumes that Shep can make a conscious choice after death, what you are advocating is a benign dictatorship.

I'm notbeing an apologist. I'm looking at the situation on hand. The universe does not bend to our morality. It the issue is thefact you being forced to pick that that is the everythingyou were doing form ME1. That is not an issue.
You were always given moral choces to make and give pros and cons of each choice before making them from ME1. Why is the question in ME3 bad because it's extreme?

Also, Shepard is the one incharge. What system is used is up to him. That does not mean it has to be any sort of a dictatorship. Shepard can just let all life rule themselves.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

Bolded the important parts.  Shepard's not offering squat.  The Catalyst (or the game, rather) is demanding.  "GIve me this or you all die"  Shepard is not getting off the CItadel alive.  All Shep can do is decide whether he wants to die alone, doing something horrific, or take the galaxy with him to Valhalla in the ultimate viking funeral.

the Catalyst wants blood.  It is Jigsaw, and Shepard is trapped in one of its "little games"

So the Catalyst designed the Crucible?

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

What evidence? All it saysthat it was Human. That does not mean the AI no longer is Shepard.

"You will die.  You will control us, but you will lose everything you have"

"Your connection to your kind will be lost"

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Bolded the important parts.  Shepard's not offering squat.  The Catalyst (or the game, rather) is demanding.  "GIve me this or you all die"  Shepard is not getting off the CItadel alive.  All Shep can do is decide whether he wants to die alone, doing something horrific, or take the galaxy with him to Valhalla in the ultimate viking funeral.

the Catalyst wants blood.  It is Jigsaw, and Shepard is trapped in one of its "little games"

So the Catalyst designed the Crucible?

Certainbly not offering a truce while new solutions are explored...

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

What evidence? All it saysthat it was Human. That does not mean the AI no longer is Shepard.

"You will die.  You will control us, but you will lose everything you have"

"Your connection to your kind will be lost"

Wonderful selective hearing,iakus ..This time quote the entire statment.

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Bolded the important parts.  Shepard's not offering squat.  The Catalyst (or the game, rather) is demanding.  "GIve me this or you all die"  Shepard is not getting off the CItadel alive.  All Shep can do is decide whether he wants to die alone, doing something horrific, or take the galaxy with him to Valhalla in the ultimate viking funeral.

the Catalyst wants blood.  It is Jigsaw, and Shepard is trapped in one of its "little games"

So the Catalyst designed the Crucible?

Certainbly not offering a truce while new solutions are explored...

You missed that fact that the reapers already won at this point?

[ghost9191]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

Again, I never really bought that. If Shepard uploaded his mind into the Citadel then the Citadel is now Shepard.

Unless you (and possibly the game designers) are saying that if I take a person and copy them then the copy isn't that person anymore, which is a questionable stance, especially if the process destroys the original.

one yes , if someone makes a copy of me and i die then clones me. i will be dead , there will just be a copy of me simple. i wont grow or learn anymore.

but it is stance . it is either shepard died or the ai shep obviously insane , i'd say the galactic community is in for a surprise or lack of one . although lets be fair, they were screwed as soon as shep stepped towards the controls :innocent:

[ghost9191]

AlanC9 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

saves more lives in the long run

sacrifice 1 for 5 or 5 for 1

It's even better than that, since the Reapers were going to destroy the geth anyway.

holy sh*t , never actually thought about it that way

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

What evidence? All it saysthat it was Human. That does not mean the AI no longer is Shepard.

"You will die.  You will control us, but you will lose everything you have"

"Your connection to your kind will be lost"

Wonderful selective hearing,iakus ..This time quote the entire statment.

Which statement?  The first one is complete.  The second does go on to say:

"Your connection to your kind will be lost.  Though you will remain aware of their existence"  which is pretty self evident.  The Shepard-Catalyst will not be human.  It will have Shepard's thoughts and memories, but will think like a machine.

Does that help?

Modifié par iakus, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

not exactly .. the essence is born through thhe death of shepard. it is shepards scion - not shepard itself.

the essence may evolve - but the foundation for its viewpoints, is set on the events while being alive for 31 years.

eternity is a long time to go ... what happens the moment the former loved ones die by the hands of others? ... will there be revenge?

I don't see it that way. It's a new form of Shepard. Like a program moving from one hard ware to the next.

my interpretation of the epilogue is different - but i respect your opinion. but the text is clear: 

"the man/woman i was used that words ... but now i only understand the means of his sacrafice. ... through his death, i was created, through my birth, his/her thoughts were freed. they guide me now. give me direction, give me reason" t

he essence speaks of shepard, as of an other person. the essence is based on shepard but it is only guided by the thoughts and memories of shepard.

The prasing in the eplogue isthat the Shepard AI use to be human. Not use to be Shepard.
The statement "Man I was/Woman I was" mean it used to be a man/woman.

which would explain the rest of that quote , WAIT 

it is basiacally shep being reborn  . same as say ppl that get turned into a reaper , not the same shep. that one is dead,, hence the death part . and rebirth part

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This is NOT Shepard. This is a Reaperized Shepard.

Control: http://youtu.be/0PPBllnO8Tc?t=6m30s

edit: Ashley's thoughts "I knew she was with Cerberus."

Face the facts. All these choices are morally repugnant. The fact that the writers actually chose to end an otherwise excellent trilogy this way is beyond my comprehension unless this was a psychological test of some sort to see what we as demographic would accept. What other purpose than this would an ending like this serve? It's horrible, and this is just to end the game. This is a frakking game, not a psych test to see if you're capable of committing a war crime.

Don't say "whiner, you hate to make tough choices." I don't like to make tough choices. If I did I would have picked a career in the judiciary. Do you enjoy making them?

From what I've seen most of us would accept genocide over annihilation, slavery + dictatorship, or mass brainwashing + eugenics.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

not exactly .. the essence is born through thhe death of shepard. it is shepards scion - not shepard itself.

the essence may evolve - but the foundation for its viewpoints, is set on the events while being alive for 31 years.

eternity is a long time to go ... what happens the moment the former loved ones die by the hands of others? ... will there be revenge?

I don't see it that way. It's a new form of Shepard. Like a program moving from one hard ware to the next.

my interpretation of the epilogue is different - but i respect your opinion. but the text is clear: 

"the man/woman i was used that words ... but now i only understand the means of his sacrafice. ... through his death, i was created, through my birth, his/her thoughts were freed. they guide me now. give me direction, give me reason" t

he essence speaks of shepard, as of an other person. the essence is based on shepard but it is only guided by the thoughts and memories of shepard.

The prasing in the eplogue isthat the Shepard AI use to be human. Not use to be Shepard.
The statement "Man I was/Woman I was" mean it used to be a man/woman.

which would explain the rest of that quote , WAIT 

it is basiacally shep being reborn  . same as say ppl that get turned into a reaper , not the same shep. that one is dead,, hence the death part . and rebirth part

It's not a rebirth. More like  reform. Even in a case of the rebirth the mind stays the same anyway.

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]You missed that fact that the reapers already won at this point?
[/quote]

So that whole
"My solution won't work anymore"
"So now what?'
"We find a new solution"

was just so much BS?

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

What evidence? All it saysthat it was Human. That does not mean the AI no longer is Shepard.

"You will die.  You will control us, but you will lose everything you have"

"Your connection to your kind will be lost"

Wonderful selective hearing,iakus ..This time quote the entire statment.

Which statement?  The first one is complete.  The second does go on to say:

"Your connection to your kind will be lost.  Though you will remain aware of their existence"  which is pretty self evidence.  The Shepard-Catalyst will not be human.  It will have Shepard's thoughts and memories, but will no longer think like a machine.

Does that help?

The entire coversation please...No selective hearing. That would mean the introduction of control the FULL expliantion of control with it.

[dreman9999]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]You missed that fact that the reapers already won at this point?
[/quote]

So that whole
"My solution won't work anymore"
"So now what?'
"We find a new solution"

was just so much BS?

[/quote]That means the next cycle will win....Which it did if you refused.
It won this conflict. 

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

Again, I never really bought that. If Shepard uploaded his mind into the Citadel then the Citadel is now Shepard.

Unless you (and possibly the game designers) are saying that if I take a person and copy them then the copy isn't that person anymore, which is a questionable stance, especially if the process destroys the original.

one yes , if someone makes a copy of me and i die then clones me. i will be dead , there will just be a copy of me simple. i wont grow or learn anymore.

but it is stance . it is either shepard died or the ai shep obviously insane , i'd say the galactic community is in for a surprise or lack of one . although lets be fair, they were screwed as soon as shep stepped towards the controls :innocent:

But it not a copy. It's an upload. That means you mind moved to something else.

[ghost9191]

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Modifié par ghost9191, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:51 .

[dreman9999]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is NOT Shepard. This is a Reaperized Shepard.

Control: http://youtu.be/0PPBllnO8Tc?t=6m30s

edit: Ashley's thoughts "I knew she was with Cerberus."

Face the facts. All these choices are morally repugnant. The fact that the writers actually chose to end an otherwise excellent trilogy this way is beyond my comprehension unless this was a psychological test of some sort to see what we as demographic would accept. What other purpose than this would an ending like this serve? It's horrible, and this is just to end the game. This is a frakking game, not a psych test to see if you're capable of committing a war crime.

Don't say "whiner, you hate to make tough choices." I don't like to make tough choices. If I did I would have picked a career in the judiciary. Do you enjoy making them?

From what I've seen most of us would accept genocide over annihilation, slavery + dictatorship, or mass brainwashing + eugenics.

That is Shepard in control. Nothing is saying it's not. All it is aying is that it used to be a man/woman...Not that it's a copy. The statement"Man I was/Woman I was " means it used to be human.