530 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Dead as a human. But that still means Shepardis alive as an AI. That still means Shepard is alive just in a new form.

[ghost9191]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is NOT Shepard. This is a Reaperized Shepard.

Control: http://youtu.be/0PPBllnO8Tc?t=6m30s

edit: Ashley's thoughts "I knew she was with Cerberus."

Face the facts. All these choices are morally repugnant. The fact that the writers actually chose to end an otherwise excellent trilogy this way is beyond my comprehension unless this was a psychological test of some sort to see what we as demographic would accept. What other purpose than this would an ending like this serve? It's horrible, and this is just to end the game. This is a frakking game, not a psych test to see if you're capable of committing a war crime.

Don't say "whiner, you hate to make tough choices." I don't like to make tough choices. If I did I would have picked a career in the judiciary. Do you enjoy making them?

From what I've seen most of us would accept genocide over annihilation, slavery + dictatorship, or mass brainwashing + eugenics.

+10 internet points   although i will have to deduct 2 for using the AI Femshep

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]The entire coversation please...No selective hearing. That would mean the introduction of control the FULL expliantion of control with it.
[/quote]

Fine, just to make you happy:

Catalyst "You can instead use the energy of the Crucible to seize control of the Reapers. "
Shepard "So the Illusive Man was right after all"
Catalyst "Yes.  But he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him"
Shepard "But I can"
Catalyst: "You will die.  You will control us but you will lose everything you have"
Shepard "How can I control the Reapers if I'm dead?"
Catalyst: "Your corporeal form will be dissolved.  But your thoughts and even your memories will contrinue.  Your connection to your kind will be lost.  Though you will remain aware of their existence
SHepard:  But the Reapers will obey me?
Catalyst:  Yes.  We will be yours to control and direct as you see fit"
Shepard ::noncommital grunt::

Still failing to see the issue here.  Shepard dies.  the Catalyst says so.  More than once.  An AI with Shepard's thoughts and memories is created, and that controls the Reapers.  This AI will have Shepard's values, but think like a machine.  The Catalyst says as much.  It will not be Shepard any more than the VI in the refugee camp is Shepard.

[SeptimusMagistos]

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Al right. What's the difference between the two?

[dreman9999]

@iakus 
What does "Your corporeal form will be dissolved.  But your thoughts and even your memories will contrinue.  Your connection to your kind will be lost.  Though you will remain aware of their existence"

Mean?

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Dead as a human. But that still means Shepardis alive as an AI. That still means Shepard is alive just in a new form.

yeah which is what i am saying. like the process of making a reaper ( or so some believe ) the human , or species that it is done to , dies , but memories and such get uploaded . but what they were dies . they can be the same or not . but they did have to die for that to happen. it is no longer the shep we know, or *your* shep, it is ai version of it.or some bs like that.  and by the way it talks that seems to be close at least .

seems like a rebirth to me but again me , may be same may not but the old is dead

[ghost9191]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Al right. What's the difference between the two?

tried to word the best i could in the last post. but the old shep died to give birth to new,. but old one is still dead . changed and such . small detail but d*mn it i think it

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]You missed that fact that the reapers already won at this point?
[/quote]

So that whole
"My solution won't work anymore"
"So now what?'
"We find a new solution"

was just so much BS?

[/quote]That means the next cycle will win....Which it did if you refused.
It won this conflict. 

[/quote]


How does that make any sense at all?

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Dead as a human. But that still means Shepardis alive as an AI. That still means Shepard is alive just in a new form.

yeah which is what i am saying. like the process of making a reaper ( or so some believe ) the human , or species that it is done to , dies , but memories and such get uploaded . but what they were dies . they can be the same or not . but they did have to die for that to happen. it is no longer the shep we know, or *your* shep, it is ai version of it.or some bs like that.  and by the way it talks that seems to be close at least .

seems like a rebirth to me but again me , may be same may not but the old is dead

It not the same as making a reaper. Reaper are set a program to do fromcreationg. The Shepard Ai is not.

The reapers are tools. The Shepard AI has free will.

And yes this process can have them be the same. We have this in the MEU already.http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien

[SeptimusMagistos]

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Al right. What's the difference between the two?

tried to word the best i could in the last post. but the old shep died to give birth to new,. but old one is still dead . changed and such . small detail but d*mn it i think it

But...but the AI remembers being Shepard. It has his thoughts, his memories. Therefore it is Shepard.

[dreman9999]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]You missed that fact that the reapers already won at this point?
[/quote]

So that whole
"My solution won't work anymore"
"So now what?'
"We find a new solution"

was just so much BS?

[/quote]That means the next cycle will win....Which it did if you refused.
It won this conflict. 

[/quote]


How does that make any sense at all?

[/quote]Take the time to understand the catalyst goal. It not to win. It's to do it's programming.The reason It interacted with Shepard because it found a new way to do it's programming and it's old solution dropped in value.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:03 .

[ghost9191]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]You missed that fact that the reapers already won at this point?
[/quote]

So that whole
"My solution won't work anymore"
"So now what?'
"We find a new solution"

was just so much BS?

[/quote]That means the next cycle will win....Which it did if you refused.
It won this conflict. 

[/quote]


How does that make any sense at all?

[/quote]

well they used the crucible . according to twitter. and twitter is the word . and the word is clear . the word demands obedience

anywho they probablly did synthesis those sick b*stards or worse destroy:devil: . but hey might not of had synthetics in that cycle

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Al right. What's the difference between the two?

tried to word the best i could in the last post. but the old shep died to give birth to new,. but old one is still dead . changed and such . small detail but d*mn it i think it

You 're confusing self with body. That is not the case. Shepard Self is still alive but in a new body. Shepard old body is the only thing to die.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:06 .

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Dead as a human. But that still means Shepardis alive as an AI. That still means Shepard is alive just in a new form.

yeah which is what i am saying. like the process of making a reaper ( or so some believe ) the human , or species that it is done to , dies , but memories and such get uploaded . but what they were dies . they can be the same or not . but they did have to die for that to happen. it is no longer the shep we know, or *your* shep, it is ai version of it.or some bs like that.  and by the way it talks that seems to be close at least .

seems like a rebirth to me but again me , may be same may not but the old is dead

It not the same as making a reaper. Reaper are set a program to do fromcreationg. The Shepard Ai is not.

The reapers are tools. The Shepard AI has free will.

And yes this process can have them be the same. We have this in the MEU already.http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien

 that is why i said what some believe

and that is download. we were talking about upload

and i do not believe they are the same. again will be mind and such , memories. but their bodies died . which is what i am saying. what shep was died . to become a reaper .

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

@iakus 
What does "Your corporeal form will be dissolved.  But your thoughts and even your memories will contrinue.  Your connection to your kind will be lost.  Though you will remain aware of their existence"

Mean?

It means SHepard dies.  But Shep's thoughts and memories are recorded and uploaded into a machine,  Which will operate based on that.  I suspect the original Catalyst was made in a similar fashion.

But it will not be Shepard.  It will not have the emotional connections Shepard had ("You will lose your connection to your kind, though you will still be aware of their existence").  It will have the context of a machine, not a human (You will control us, but you will lose everything you have).   

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Al right. What's the difference between the two?

tried to word the best i could in the last post. but the old shep died to give birth to new,. but old one is still dead . changed and such . small detail but d*mn it i think it

You 're confusing self with body. That is not the case. Shepard Self is still alive but in a new body. Shepard old body is the only thing to die.

exactly what i am saying. that shep died. body and sh*t but ascended or so the catlayst would claim , and became a reaper. but had to die to achieve that . hints the you will die part

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]Take the time to understand the catalyst goal. It not to win. It's to do it's programming.The reason It interacted with Shepard because it found a new way to do it's programming and it's old solution dropped in value.
[/quote]

And agian, it doesn't stop reaping thgouhout the conversation, nor does it offer any new ideas.  Like firther refining the Crucible, further adapting it to other uses.  It just goes on killing, uncaring .

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@Dreman

yes but that shep is dead . reborn as a reaper thing . but not the same shep . that one died to give birth to the ai .

fine with debating it . why i am still here but that is the way i see .

Al right. What's the difference between the two?

tried to word the best i could in the last post. but the old shep died to give birth to new,. but old one is still dead . changed and such . small detail but d*mn it i think it

You 're confusing self with body. That is not the case. Shepard Self is still alive but in a new body. Shepard old body is the only thing to die.

exactly what i am saying. that shep died. body and sh*t but ascended or so the catlayst would claim , and became a reaper. but had to die to achieve that . hints the you will die part

The body died , not the mind. It's a case like this...http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien

[ghost9191]

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

[SeptimusMagistos]

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:12 .

[dreman9999]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]Take the time to understand the catalyst goal. It not to win. It's to do it's programming.The reason It interacted with Shepard because it found a new way to do it's programming and it's old solution dropped in value.
[/quote]

And agian, it doesn't stop reaping thgouhout the conversation, nor does it offer any new ideas.  Like firther refining the Crucible, further adapting it to other uses.  It just goes on killing, uncaring .

[/quote]It does not know that you will use the crucible of not. So at the time the reapers solution is still an option. Added it's goal is to control life to perserve it, not kill it off. Any deaths that happens while it tries to control all life is a means to an end.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[ghost9191]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

just gonna put that

but yeahh maybe . but will be a machine. no longer human and such . so could change in ways we do not know

again though see iakus post. i give him lets say 12 internet points btw. anyways he explained what i was trying to say a whole hell of a lot better

but that is my view. could be the other way around idk. but if it is i would find that hell . as the catalyst says you will be cut off or whatever . no longer able to interact with friends and such . and watching them die would suck. immortality would suck lol . my opinion though

[Ticonderoga117]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

It doesn't work for AI's, so why would it work for humans?

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

What? Memeories  are not fix points. They degrade over time. Emotions are based in the limbic system.

i doubt, that the memories, who the essence (i refuse to call it shepard) enherits, will degrade ... memories degrade, because the nervous system ages.

memories are based on experienced circumstances - they are a reflection of what really happend.

[Iakus]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

So if Liara melds with Shepard and gains his/her memories, does Liara become Shepard?