530 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

It doesn't work for AI's, so why would it work for humans?

It works for AI's. It just an issueof how much is uploaded and if it's safe guaded. This is seen with the geth. Theissue you pointing out is with hardware...But this would bethe same case if we moved a person form body to body. How the body is wired would effect the persona of the person.

If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this.

What we are sexually attrached to is based on the formation of our limpic system.AKA, A CASE OF HARD WARE.

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

What? Memeories  are not fix points. They degrade over time. Emotions are based in the limbic system.

i doubt, that the memories, who the essence (i refuse to call it shepard) enherits, will degrade ... memories degrade, because the nervous system ages.

memories are based on experienced circumstances - they are a reflection of what really happend.

But you missing the fact here with AI's memories and emotions are a case of programing. It just works differentley. It's not a case that they don't have it at all.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:30 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

So if Liara melds with Shepard and gains his/her memories, does Liara become Shepard?

Right because we are going to ignore the fact she has memories of her own.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

So if Liara melds with Shepard and gains his/her memories, does Liara become Shepard?

Right because we are going to ignore the fact she has memories of her own.

Why not?  We're already ignoring that an organic brain and a synthetic are different.

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

just gonna put that

but yeahh maybe . but will be a machine. no longer human and such . so could change in ways we do not know

again though see iakus post. i give him lets say 12 internet points btw. anyways he explained what i was trying to say a whole hell of a lot better

but that is my view. could be the other way around idk. but if it is i would find that hell . as the catalyst says you will be cut off or whatever . no longer able to interact with friends and such . and watching them die would suck. immortality would suck lol . my opinion though

That a con of the choice. That does not mean you're no longer Shepard as the AI.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

It doesn't work for AI's, so why would it work for humans?

It works for AI's. It just an issueof how much is uploaded and if it's safe guaded. This is seen with the geth. Theissue you pointing out is with hardware...But this would bethe same case if we moved a person form body to body. How the body is wired would effect the persona of the person.

If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this.

What we are sexually attrached to is based on the formation of our limpic system.AKA, A CASE OF HARD WARE.

Uhm, no. The Geth are the exception not the rule since the Geth's structure is inherently different from normal AI's.
Mainly because they don't use a bluebox. Why is this important you ask? Well, let's use some ingame data:

No one knows whether the geth develop personalities as organic-created
AIs do. If an organic-designed AI is transferred into another quantum
bluebox, its personality is reset.

To take a guess, the blue box is structured similiarly to a human brain with connections growing in a more or less random fashion based on it's experiances and thoughts. Thus, when you dump the memory in a new blue box, it is reset and the resultant personality is much different.

The Geth don't use blueboxes and instead the personality is based on a more "hive-mind" approach. Each process gets a simple "Yes/No" vote and then the majority rules.

Edit: Another entry focusing more on AI's

An AI cannot be transmitted across a communication channel or computer
network. Without its blue box, an AI is no more than data files. Loading
these files into a new blue box will create a new personality, as
variations in the quantum hardware and runtime results create
unpredictable variations.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:36 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

So if Liara melds with Shepard and gains his/her memories, does Liara become Shepard?

Right because we are going to ignore the fact she has memories of her own.

Why not?  We're already ignoring that an organic brain and a synthetic are different.

Wrong  agein...My quote atthe top of the page..

dreman9999 wrote...


t works for AI's. It just an issueof how much is uploaded and if it's safe guaded. This is seen with the geth. Theissue you pointing out is with hardware...But this would bethe same case if we moved a person form body to body. How the body is wired would effect the persona of the person.

If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this.

What we are sexually attrached to is based on the formation of our limpic system.AKA, A CASE OF HARD WARE.

My following quote...

dreman9999 wrote...


But you missing the fact here with AI's memories and emotions are a case of programing. It just works differentley. It's not a case that they don't have it at all.

We , or at least I, have the concept of the difference in mind.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

jstme wrote...

HVR 2.0.
This is a sci-fi video game. It is not real ,but it's plot is written by real people. Those people could write infinite number of different endings. Even the ending in which Shepard kills every reaper by beating them to death with feathers.If they would have let their imagination run even wilder - they could have written even synthesis ending.
Sarcasm aside, i can understand headcanoning people that make synthesis/control their personal utopia and thus enjoy the endings.

I didn't headcanon anything. I took what EC gave me. :happy:

Given that, you can deduct that HYR was not a big fan of the original endings. Take that for what it's worth.

However understanding that all current endings to a certain fictional video game are against all previous narrative and morally abhorrent  and liking it for exactly that... Sorry, i cannot understand it.

I disagree that they go against the narrative. It may have gone against the rosy ME1 and ME2 stories, but neither of those took place in a galactic war. ME2 in particular was a joke. You have this hyped-up suicide mission where you can get everyone out ridiculously easily. The strategy and tactics boil down to "let's split up, gang!"

ME3 set the tone in a big, big way. Let me guess, you cured the genophage. Because Wrex, amirite? What if his brother were in charge, would you still do it? If not, you chose genocide in the name of peace, before it was cool (Destroy). If you still do, EC pretty much calls you a fool for it by showing his krogan priming for war. Did you achieve Rannoch peace? If so, you saved a military man (Koris) over a group of civilians, for politics. How does that not bother you? Or did you commit genocide of either the geth or quarians? Did you believe the Collector Base was ethically-tainted? The Alliance doesn't. They seize it or whatever was left of it from Cerberus HQ for the Crucible.

And what was Javik's quote about honor in war, again?

As to "morally abhorrent" ... I can't help you there, or anyone else for that matter. I for one don't view any of Destroy, Control, or Synthesis in the same way as those who are rabidly opposed to any of the three. If I did, I probably wouldn't enjoy it so much and reside firmly in the anti-ender camp myself. As is, I'm still disputing claims like "the choices came from the catalyst" or "he wants this and that" ... what to say of the true nature of red, green and blue.

Not all wars end with genocide ,"biowarfare" or "mind control".

*Occupation, not mind-control.

And not all wars stake all advanced life in the galaxy while fighting against a race of giant sentient dreadnoughts, either. Nor do they involve FTL flight, aliens, or "element zero" and mass-effect technology. What's your point?

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

just gonna put that

but yeahh maybe . but will be a machine. no longer human and such . so could change in ways we do not know

again though see iakus post. i give him lets say 12 internet points btw. anyways he explained what i was trying to say a whole hell of a lot better

but that is my view. could be the other way around idk. but if it is i would find that hell . as the catalyst says you will be cut off or whatever . no longer able to interact with friends and such . and watching them die would suck. immortality would suck lol . my opinion though

That a con of the choice. That does not mean you're no longer Shepard as the AI.

didn't say that. just said if it was shep , than that would suck. and idk but a a millennia with my own thoughts i am pretty sure i would go insane. probably be huh so the catalyst was right. only way to protect is to preserve , go forth my minions . HARVEST

[teh DRUMPf!!]

drayfish wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Morality doesn't exist in a vaccum.

Is it bad to lie? Yes. Is it bad to lie to an evil person to save your life? Not so much.

Moreover, your morality isn't lost forever for that lie, either.

Life goes on after it's all said and done (except Refuse ending). The galaxy broke free of a threat that haunted them and threatened everyone's lives. Whatever the Reapers' motives were is irrelevant at their defeat. There's no nihilism in that.

I'm not sure how 'telling a lie to an evil person' equates to 'genocide a friendly race of allies because that evil person said to'.

It wasn't an analogy to the ending. Just an example of how, again, morality don't exist in a vaccum.

As it pertains to the ending, this is not about "evil person." Fact of the matter is, he doesn't matter here. This is about "to save your life." It's not as if you have to take pleasure in any of the three options, you're simply making do with the hand you've been dealt. Otherwise, why do you bother fighting them and killing them in the first place?

That's why I reject the whole "you're doing what they do" argument. It looks at everything in a vaccum. Besides, when history looks back at the catalyst's previous actions with contempt, does the "bad guy" really get away/win?

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

It doesn't work for AI's, so why would it work for humans?

It works for AI's. It just an issueof how much is uploaded and if it's safe guaded. This is seen with the geth. Theissue you pointing out is with hardware...But this would bethe same case if we moved a person form body to body. How the body is wired would effect the persona of the person.

If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this.

What we are sexually attrached to is based on the formation of our limpic system.AKA, A CASE OF HARD WARE.

Uhm, no. The Geth are the exception not the rule since the Geth's structure is inherently different from normal AI's.
Mainly because they don't use a bluebox. Why is this important you ask? Well, let's use some ingame data:

No one knows whether the geth develop personalities as organic-created
AIs do. If an organic-designed AI is transferred into another quantum
bluebox, its personality is reset.

To take a guess, the blue box is structured similiarly to a human brain with connections growing in a more or less random fashion based on it's experiances and thoughts. Thus, when you dump the memory in a new blue box, it is reset and the resultant personality is much different.

The Geth don't use blueboxes and instead the personality is based on a more "hive-mind" approach. Each process gets a simple "Yes/No" vote and then the majority rules.

Edit: Another entry focusing more on AI's

An AI cannot be transmitted across a communication channel or computer
network. Without its blue box, an AI is no more than data files. Loading
these files into a new blue box will create a new personality, as
variations in the quantum hardware and runtime results create
unpredictable variations.

On you first point.
It the geth are the exception then furture AI'S can made like the geth.
On you second...I was refuring tothe blue box with this statement...
"If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this."

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

What? Memeories  are not fix points. They degrade over time. Emotions are based in the limbic system.

i doubt, that the memories, who the essence (i refuse to call it shepard) enherits, will degrade ... memories degrade, because the nervous system ages.

memories are based on experienced circumstances - they are a reflection of what really happend.

But you missing the fact here with AI's memories and emotions are a case of programing. It just works differentley. It's not a case that they don't have it at all.

if the essence had not only thoughts and memories, but also the emotions and the shift emotions experience, then it would be shepard - but according to its own statement, it is not. it is a scion, a virtual construct but not shepard. 

not even ais can be transfered to another bluebox, without altering it.

if the ai had emotions, it would go mad after a short time .. or it would "waste" its time by watching the li over the shoulder. in fact, an essence has to be free of emotions to fulfill its purpose.

emotions can not be programmed ... they are a reaction to memories and experiences.

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

just gonna put that

but yeahh maybe . but will be a machine. no longer human and such . so could change in ways we do not know

again though see iakus post. i give him lets say 12 internet points btw. anyways he explained what i was trying to say a whole hell of a lot better

but that is my view. could be the other way around idk. but if it is i would find that hell . as the catalyst says you will be cut off or whatever . no longer able to interact with friends and such . and watching them die would suck. immortality would suck lol . my opinion though

That a con of the choice. That does not mean you're no longer Shepard as the AI.

didn't say that. just said if it was shep , than that would suck. and idk but a a millennia with my own thoughts i am pretty sure i would go insane. probably be huh so the catalyst was right. only way to protect is to preserve , go forth my minions . HARVEST

Shepard as an AI and Ai see tiem differently form us. Javik points out time is an illusion to AI's and the Shepard ai states time is different for it then before with it's immortality statement.

You won't go insane over time.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
On you first point.
It the geth are the exception then furture AI'S can made like the geth.
On you second...I was refuring tothe blue box with this statement...
"If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this."

Uhm, why would we make more AI's?
A. It's against the law.
B. In 2 out of 3 endings, the giant space squids would stamp that out.
C. Why would we want to?

Moving on, what? Since when did we know this? Has someone been able to transfer persoanlities? That's a load of bull.

If anything, it would be random based on how the new personality develops because you most likely loose the old one!

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 02 novembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

What? Memeories  are not fix points. They degrade over time. Emotions are based in the limbic system.

i doubt, that the memories, who the essence (i refuse to call it shepard) enherits, will degrade ... memories degrade, because the nervous system ages.

memories are based on experienced circumstances - they are a reflection of what really happend.

But you missing the fact here with AI's memories and emotions are a case of programing. It just works differentley. It's not a case that they don't have it at all.

if the essence had not only thoughts and memories, but also the emotions and the shift emotions experience, then it would be shepard - but according to its own statement, it is not. it is a scion, a virtual construct but not shepard. 

not even ais can be transfered to another bluebox, without altering it.

if the ai had emotions, it would go mad after a short time .. or it would "waste" its time by watching the li over the shoulder. in fact, an essence has to be free of emotions to fulfill its purpose.

emotions can not be programmed ... they are a reaction to memories and experiences.

You do know how maluble emotions are? We can cut emotions out of our selves and chemically induse other emotions.
An AI can develop it own emotions as seen with EDI. It's a cse of it working differently then organics, not a case Ai's don't have it at all.

And the Shepard ai that has a new concept of time will not go crazy with imotality. As Javik said.Machines see tiem as an illusion.

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

just gonna put that

but yeahh maybe . but will be a machine. no longer human and such . so could change in ways we do not know

again though see iakus post. i give him lets say 12 internet points btw. anyways he explained what i was trying to say a whole hell of a lot better

but that is my view. could be the other way around idk. but if it is i would find that hell . as the catalyst says you will be cut off or whatever . no longer able to interact with friends and such . and watching them die would suck. immortality would suck lol . my opinion though

That a con of the choice. That does not mean you're no longer Shepard as the AI.

didn't say that. just said if it was shep , than that would suck. and idk but a a millennia with my own thoughts i am pretty sure i would go insane. probably be huh so the catalyst was right. only way to protect is to preserve , go forth my minions . HARVEST

Shepard as an AI and Ai see tiem differently form us. Javik points out time is an illusion to AI's and the Shepard ai states time is different for it then before with it's immortality statement.

You won't go insane over time.

its not about "going insane". ita about an observing, calculating and analysing ai, that is only guided by memories and thoughts of a dead man/woman.

if certain events in the future evoke the impression, that the civilisation is risking itself, the ai could come to the conclusion, that they (the civilisation) need to be saved from themselves. that could be done by a new cycle of extinction or the manipulation (indoctrination) of the perpetritor.

what happens, if a new race startes a new conquest and the essence throws its might against them - they would be obliterated. same what was about to happen to us on the hands of the reapers. a new extinction is caused - but thats totally ok, since it is not our own right?

a noble hegemon is still a hegemon

[Obadiah]

@HYR 2.0
Javik's quote was: War is atrocity committed in the name of survival.... Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask their ghosts if honor matters.

Er, I might have gotten the order of those two quotes wrong.

Modifié par Obadiah, 02 novembre 2012 - 09:00 .

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
On you first point.
It the geth are the exception then furture AI'S can made like the geth.
On you second...I was refuring tothe blue box with this statement...
"If a persona of a woman who is attracted to men was uploaded to a body of a man who lis attrached to woman...The womans persona in the mans body would likes women would be attracted to women. It's a case of the formation of the brain that guides this."

Uhm, why would we make more AI's?
A. It's against the law.
B. In 2 out of 3 endings, the giant space squids would stamp that out.
C. Why would we want to?

Moving on, what? Since when did we know this? Has someone been able to transfer persoanlities? That's a load of bull.

If anything, it would be random based on how the new personality develops because you most likely loose the old one!

1. Pre ending laws don't tie to post ending law.
2. Why would the Shepard ai stomp them all out?
3. Why wouldn't they want to?


And I'm theoriesing this based on the fact that emotion are based on chemisty and formation of the brain. This has been proven time and time agein.

It's a good guess that if a persons mind is move to a new body the brains chemisty  in the old brain would not move and the mind would be effected by the chemistry and formation of the new brain. It has like how a person in the same body they are born with are effected by the chemistry and formation of the brain. Any new changes to it physically effect the persons mind... We have case where people personality change becasue of removed parts of the brain.

[Andres Hendrix]

Obadiah wrote...

@Andres Hendrix
I'm attacking the argument that the writers accidentally created an ugly, racist, disgusting, vile, abhorrent ending that dear gods validates forced mutation, intolerance, dictatoriship, totalitarianism, mind-control, Eugenics, and genocide. I'm saying that repeating it is not useful.

This argument directly uses loaded words to summarize, confuse, and cloud any discussion of the ending that does not nod in agreement that "yes, these things are indeed bad." It is an attempt to shut down rather than engage in a discussion.

That is why any attempt to properly summarize it's conclusion (what my one paragraph did) ends up making the conclusion look like a troll post. It is still however a fair summary of the conclusion.

Granted, it is a fairly weak response since I don't directly defend it, but I think it is fairly self-evident justification for anyone following the thread.

@inko1nsiderate
Pretty much.

How about you try to actually defend your positions (you
admit that your response was weak, therefore it was unwarranted) and afterwards,
if you do, try to refrain from character attacks. Thanks.

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

so shep dies, but memories and such go on . but shep is dead

simple thing to do is forget most of what i said and listen to iakus. he clearly did a better job

But 'memories and such' are what Shepard is. If Shepard's mind was uploaded and Shepard stayed alive then there would be two Shepards. One of them happened to die, but that doesn't stop the other one from being Shepard.

just gonna put that

but yeahh maybe . but will be a machine. no longer human and such . so could change in ways we do not know

again though see iakus post. i give him lets say 12 internet points btw. anyways he explained what i was trying to say a whole hell of a lot better

but that is my view. could be the other way around idk. but if it is i would find that hell . as the catalyst says you will be cut off or whatever . no longer able to interact with friends and such . and watching them die would suck. immortality would suck lol . my opinion though

That a con of the choice. That does not mean you're no longer Shepard as the AI.

didn't say that. just said if it was shep , than that would suck. and idk but a a millennia with my own thoughts i am pretty sure i would go insane. probably be huh so the catalyst was right. only way to protect is to preserve , go forth my minions . HARVEST

Shepard as an AI and Ai see tiem differently form us. Javik points out time is an illusion to AI's and the Shepard ai states time is different for it then before with it's immortality statement.

You won't go insane over time.

its not about "going insane". ita about an observing, calculating and analysing ai, that is only guided by memories and thoughts of a dead man/woman.

if certain events in the future evoke the impression, that the civilisation is risking itself, the ai could come to the conclusion, that they (the civilisation) need to be saved from themselves. that could be done by a new cycle of extinction or the manipulation (indoctrination) of the perpetritor.

what happens, if a new race startes a new conquest and the essence throws its might against them - they would be obliterated. same what was about to happen to us on the hands of the reapers. a new extinction is caused - but thats totally ok, since it is not our own right?

a noble hegemon is still a hegemon

That does not mean the AI will go to the extremes to stop it. The catalyst did not go in error because of the case you put up. It went in error because it was shackled to do what it was programmed to do.

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

memories are a fix point - emotions are not. memories do not change, the emotions that tie to a memory can.

What? Memeories  are not fix points. They degrade over time. Emotions are based in the limbic system.

i doubt, that the memories, who the essence (i refuse to call it shepard) enherits, will degrade ... memories degrade, because the nervous system ages.

memories are based on experienced circumstances - they are a reflection of what really happend.

But you missing the fact here with AI's memories and emotions are a case of programing. It just works differentley. It's not a case that they don't have it at all.

if the essence had not only thoughts and memories, but also the emotions and the shift emotions experience, then it would be shepard - but according to its own statement, it is not. it is a scion, a virtual construct but not shepard. 

not even ais can be transfered to another bluebox, without altering it.

if the ai had emotions, it would go mad after a short time .. or it would "waste" its time by watching the li over the shoulder. in fact, an essence has to be free of emotions to fulfill its purpose.

emotions can not be programmed ... they are a reaction to memories and experiences.

You do know how maluble emotions are? We can cut emotions out of our selves and chemically induse other emotions.
An AI can develop it own emotions as seen with EDI. It's a cse of it working differently then organics, not a case Ai's don't have it at all.

And the Shepard ai that has a new concept of time will not go crazy with imotality. As Javik said.Machines see tiem as an illusion.

exactly .. but the ai does not have a brain where a biochemical reaction can occur. edi stated, that she says things like "i like it" (despite the fact that does not like it. it is only gives her positive feedback), to the crewmembers, to make them feel comfortable. edi simulates emotions, based on her core programming - which she can alter.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Pre ending laws don't tie to post ending law.
2. Why would the Shepard ai stomp them all out?
3. Why wouldn't they want to?


And I'm theoriesing this based on the fact that emotion are based on chemisty and formation of the brain. This has been proven time and time agein.

It's a good guess that if a persons mind is move to a new body the brains chemisty  in the old brain would not move and the mind would be effected by the chemistry and formation of the new brain. It has like how a person in the same body they are born with are effected by the chemistry and formation of the brain. Any new changes to it physically effect the persons mind... We have case where people personality change becasue of removed parts of the brain.

1. Laws are laws.
2. Because that's most likely going to be the way he takes care of "problems" now.
3. Because it caused everyone involved a ton of problems and brought down space cthulu on top of everyone's head!

And emotions =/= personality.

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

That does not mean the AI will go to the extremes to stop it. The catalyst did not go in error because of the case you put up. It went in error because it was shackled to do what it was programmed to do.

well the essence stated it in the paragon epilogue. it will protect those who can not protect themselves.

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
1. Laws are laws.
2. Because that's most likely going to be the way he takes care of "problems" now.
3. Because it caused everyone involved a ton of problems and brought down space cthulu on top of everyone's head!

An actual argument for point 2 would be nice.

[ghost9191]

well it was mostly a joke.though it is a possibility that it could reach the same conclusion