530 réponses à ce sujet

[SeptimusMagistos]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the essence is made of the destilled thoughts and memories of shepard but it lacks the emotions that are bound to certain thoughts and memories.

Do we know this for sure?

Dr_Extrem wrote...shepards essence will not evolve, because the base of operation is made up of the events of 31 years of being alive. the base for its doing will always be the same.

Do we know this for sure?

Dr_Extrem wrote...

a paragon shepards essence will protect the weak and threatens who interfere the galactic peace with obliteration. in other words: "do something wrong and i send the reapers do obliterate you."

As opposed to the "do something wrong and I will shoot you" Shepard practiced as a human?

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What statement would that be?

Dude, the game (and EC in particular) celebrates the virtue of 3 morally 'questionable' acts. Hey, at least you agree with me about the Geth.

So the statement is that using the Crucible produces better results than not using it? 

No, the statement is that the morally stunted have fewer issues playing through the end of that game than those who actually value the most basic, inalienable rights of others.

Sound more like you're too ground in you morals to make a choice. It not that no one thatpick does not regret the choice. It just that we understand the reality of the situation.

If staying grounded in you morality means every one unwillfully die because of it....Is it worth stay grounded in your morality?

You do understand that the ending is the geth choice all over agein?

[Dr_Extrem]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Is the game really  saying something about ethics? It's not like it's a big surprise to anyone that ethical systems are fundamentally contingent -- doesn't every undergraduate play a few rounds of baiting Kantians at some point? (Until everyone in your year realizes that that game's unbalanced, of course).

That the game fails to give the full consequences of each solution due reverence makes a very strong statement I think. Why did the slaughtered Geth not get a EC slide for example?

What statement would that be?

Though I agree there should have been such a slide, if only to correct people who are headcanoning that the geth don't die in Destroy.

Bioware writing team is copping out on making hard choices with the crappy ending they wrote. Once again, like with the Reapers, they wrote themselves into a corner. They don't want to show dead geth because it might step on someone's head canon.

Before they changed the forum, and I had to re-register, under my former forum name, I'd made a post that had the new catalyst dialogue regarding destroy description before the EC came out almost word for word. They do read the forums.

There is a possibility they might be leaving the door open for some of the geth to have survived.

you should ask for some royalties


they are leaving a lot of doors open tbh. shepard could have survived - my shepard did. they could rewrite the ending after the tim-dialogue and use this altered "ending" as the prologue for a new game with shepard. i know that they want to introduce a new concept and a new character - but if it fails (like halo), they can bring the old warhorse back.

no matter what they do: it cant get any cheasier than the superweapon-plot, wich is, imo, p**s poor.

[AlanC9]

Fandango9641 wrote...

No, the statement is that the morally stunted have fewer issues playing through the end of that game than those who actually value the most basic, inalienable rights of others.

People without morals have fewer constraints on their decision-making? That's just an obvious and rather banal truth about decisions in general. 

[dreman9999]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the essence is made of the destilled thoughts and memories of shepard but it lacks the emotions that are bound to certain thoughts and memories.

Do we know this for sure?

Dr_Extrem wrote...shepards essence will not evolve, because the base of operation is made up of the events of 31 years of being alive. the base for its doing will always be the same.

Do we know this for sure?

Dr_Extrem wrote...

a paragon shepards essence will protect the weak and threatens who interfere the galactic peace with obliteration. in other words: "do something wrong and i send the reapers do obliterate you."

As opposed to the "do something wrong and I will shoot you" Shepard practiced as a human?

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

[The Night Mammoth]

Can this poster have him standing on top of a giant tiered pyramid made of empty quote boxes?

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Is the game really  saying something about ethics? It's not like it's a big surprise to anyone that ethical systems are fundamentally contingent -- doesn't every undergraduate play a few rounds of baiting Kantians at some point? (Until everyone in your year realizes that that game's unbalanced, of course).

That the game fails to give the full consequences of each solution due reverence makes a very strong statement I think. Why did the slaughtered Geth not get a EC slide for example?

What statement would that be?

Though I agree there should have been such a slide, if only to correct people who are headcanoning that the geth don't die in Destroy.

Dude, the game (and EC in particular) celebrates the virtue of 3 morally 'questionable' acts. Hey, at least you agree with me about the Geth.

You mean the fact that people are happy the war is over?

Are we going to call WW2 vets war criminals becasue they celibrated after winning the war with nukes drops on civilians?

[ghost9191]

saves more lives in the long run

sacrifice 1 for 5 or 5 for 1

[SeptimusMagistos]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

[ghost9191]

wait not it is not. pay attention . and it probably does emulate emotions

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What statement would that be?

Dude, the game (and EC in particular) celebrates the virtue of 3 morally 'questionable' acts. Hey, at least you agree with me about the Geth.

So the statement is that using the Crucible produces better results than not using it? 

No, the statement is that the morally stunted have fewer issues playing through the end of that game than those who actually value the most basic, inalienable rights of others.

Sound more like you're too ground in you morals to make a choice. It not that no one thatpick does not regret the choice. It just that we understand the reality of the situation.

If staying grounded in you morality means every one unwillfully die because of it....Is it worth stay grounded in your morality?

You do understand that the ending is the geth choice all over agein?

Can I make you poster boy for the other side?

Oh come on.
You bring up the issue of the immoral concept the 3 choices have but ignore the fact that the results of not picking means death for all.

Are we really say you would let everyone die because of you morals. Added, you missed the concept that control is also willing lock you self with prisoners of a prison to make sure they don't escape. 
Control is the least moral conflicting choice.
It your so grounded in you morals, why not carry the world with them instead of letting it burn.

[dreman9999]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

It's an upload of your Shepard. It has emotion.Added the cause for the problem withthe catayst was not a lack of emotion. It was alack of morality and it blindly doing what it was programmed to do.

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

not exactly .. the essence is born through thhe death of shepard. it is shepards scion - not shepard itself.

the essence may evolve - but the foundation for its viewpoints, is set on the events while being alive for 31 years.

eternity is a long time to go ... what happens the moment the former loved ones die by the hands of others? ... will there be revenge?

[dreman9999]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Is the game really  saying something about ethics? It's not like it's a big surprise to anyone that ethical systems are fundamentally contingent -- doesn't every undergraduate play a few rounds of baiting Kantians at some point? (Until everyone in your year realizes that that game's unbalanced, of course).

That the game fails to give the full consequences of each solution due reverence makes a very strong statement I think. Why did the slaughtered Geth not get a EC slide for example?

What statement would that be?

Though I agree there should have been such a slide, if only to correct people who are headcanoning that the geth don't die in Destroy.

Dude, the game (and EC in particular) celebrates the virtue of 3 morally 'questionable' acts. Hey, at least you agree with me about the Geth.

You mean the fact that people are happy the war is over?

Are we going to call WW2 vets war criminals becasue they celibrated after winning the war with nukes drops on civilians?

Yes.

....

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

2.It can evolve mentally like any person. That is not a negative.

3.How Shepard as the shepard AI rules is up to him/her. Shepard is the player. thus the Shepard AI is the player. That means rule how you see fit. You don't even have to use the reapers.

not exactly .. the essence is born through thhe death of shepard. it is shepards scion - not shepard itself.

the essence may evolve - but the foundation for its viewpoints, is set on the events while being alive for 31 years.

eternity is a long time to go ... what happens the moment the former loved ones die by the hands of others? ... will there be revenge?

I don't see it that way. It's a new form of Shepard. Like a program moving from one hard ware to the next.

[Dr_Extrem]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

[SeptimusMagistos]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

So are memories. If we can do one, we can do both.

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.Yes. Your Shepard.The Shepard AI is your Shepard.

Yes, but does the AI lack emotions? I don't see why it would. Compared with higher-level thinking emotions are a snap to program in.

emotions are a biochemical reaction in your nervous system. 

edi is a highly sophisticated ai but even she does only simulate true emotions. 

But She is clearly shown she has it.

Emotions are an issue of hardware. Ours does it chemicaly just like our thought is chemical. Edi and other sythetics do it numerically. Just because they do things differently does not mean they don't have it.
This was brought up in the game itself.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:12 .

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...


Learn what sacrifice means.http://www.thefreedi...y.com/sacrifice

1.a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.b. A victim offered in this way.2.a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.b. Something so forfeited.3.a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.b. Something so relinquished.c. A loss so sustained.

It does not mean it's optional.

That is the meaning of self sacrifice.

Bolded the important parts.  Shepard's not offering squat.  The Catalyst (or the game, rather) is demanding.  "GIve me this or you all die"  Shepard is not getting off the CItadel alive.  All Shep can do is decide whether he wants to die alone, doing something horrific, or take the galaxy with him to Valhalla in the ultimate viking funeral.

the Catalyst wants blood.  It is Jigsaw, and Shepard is trapped in one of its "little games"

[ghost9191]

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


Learn what sacrifice means.http://www.thefreedi...y.com/sacrifice

1.a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.b. A victim offered in this way.2.a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.b. Something so forfeited.3.a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.b. Something so relinquished.c. A loss so sustained.

It does not mean it's optional.

That is the meaning of self sacrifice.

Bolded the important parts.  Shepard's not offering squat.  The Catalyst (or the game, rather) is demanding.  "GIve me this or you all die"  Shepard is not getting off the CItadel alive.  All Shep can do is decide whether he wants to die alone, doing something horrific, or take the galaxy with him to Valhalla in the ultimate viking funeral.

the Catalyst wants blood.  It is Jigsaw, and Shepard is trapped in one of its "little games"

The moment Shepard choises meaning he/she is offering. An offering is not required to be willing ether.
Nice try.

[SeptimusMagistos]

ghost9191 wrote...

that shep is dead, new ai based on shep is born but not your shep . EVIDENCE

Again, I never really bought that. If Shepard uploaded his mind into the Citadel then the Citadel is now Shepard.

Unless you (and possibly the game designers) are saying that if I take a person and copy them then the copy isn't that person anymore, which is a questionable stance, especially if the process destroys the original.