46 réponses à ce sujet

[Potato Cat]

Was wondering if it is only humans who cause elves to lose their immortality. It's just from what I've read, the Kossith and Dwarves don't affect them in this way, or aren't mentioned, but the Dalish who live in exclusively elven communities, away from all other races, are regaining their longevity somewhat.

And when elves become Qunari, are they fully integrated? It seems like a missed oppurtunity for the uber-efficient Qunari to have potentially ageless followers who could work and fight for years and years. Or is it the elven affinity for magic that prevents them doing this? Do they fear that all elves will one day become mages again?

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, apparently the short lived races sped up the aging od elves, so they tried to withdrawn to get their lack-of-aging back but the Chantry had a spazz and attacked. So I assume, ALL short lived races were affecting the elves, but because they had more contact with humans, they are regarded as fault.

When someone becomes Qunari, that is all they are. They are a member of the Qun, that's their only life from then on.

[Potato Cat]

But they still see them as elves as that can contribute to their role in the Qun. It seems a waste if you ask me, if they aren't isolating them in an attempt to get some ageless, immortal followers. And Qunari hate waste.

[KiwiQuiche]

...that wouldn't work regardless, since the elves would age since they would be in close contact with ageing species. Qunari don't sit at home and send mail to people to convert them.

[Potato Cat]

I mean, once they have fully converted and are Qunari, why not send them elsewhere and let them regain their immortality.

[KiwiQuiche]

Because they would be doing nothing to contribute to the Qun?

[Potato Cat]

Yes of course, just elsewhere, away from the other races in the Qun.

[mousestalker]

But the Qunari already need all the elves they can get to remedy their cookie shortage.

[KiwiQuiche]

The elves won't be able to do anything for the Qunari that would stop them from aging, since Qunari clash with aging races all the time and are made up of aging races. They wouldn't just be sent away since that would be a waste of resources.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Potato Cat]

Well say, in an ideal Qunari world, Thedas is fully converted and as is the rest of the world. Are you really saying that seperating the elves to ensure their longevity is a waste of resources? And I don't think it's just a matter of minutes that cause elves to lose their immortality, but prolonged exposure. Didn't the humans and elves live in harmony for a fairly long period of time? If there was a purely elven group of warriors, I think they could still feasibly interact with other races and do battle with them and not jeopordise their immortality.

Modifié par Elfman, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:18 .

[KiwiQuiche]

The Qunari don't pander different groups. They all have a purpose. The elves purpose isn't to become immortal again, it's to do with whatever life they are given.

[Frocharocha]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

The Qunari don't pander different groups. They all have a purpose. The elves purpose isn't to become immortal again, it's to do with whatever life they are given.

There are many groups of Elfs. The Dalish wants to restore the old ways (partialy) teh city elfs wants to get a better life and so on.

Actually, all Dalish are ageless. Fenris is already around 1000. If you bring him in the party while having conversations with Qunari, he shows the ability to talk in Qunari lenguage and he also knows alot of about their culture.

[TEWR]

Elfman wrote...

Was wondering if it is only humans who cause elves to lose their immortality. It's just from what I've read, the Kossith and Dwarves don't affect them in this way, or aren't mentioned, but the Dalish who live in exclusively elven communities, away from all other races, are regaining their longevity somewhat.

And when elves become Qunari, are they fully integrated? It seems like a missed oppurtunity for the uber-efficient Qunari to have potentially ageless followers who could work and fight for years and years. Or is it the elven affinity for magic that prevents them doing this? Do they fear that all elves will one day become mages again?

As I recall, the Elves were trading partners with the Dwarves prior to the downfall of Arlathan, which indicates to them being fine with one another -- though they tend to remain in their respective areas.

After the fall of Arlathan, the Dwarves of Cad'Halash sheltered the refugee Elves of Arlathan from the Imperium, only for Kal-Sharok to kill the Dwarves and Elves to cover up the fact that the Dwarves sheltered Elves -- as the Dwarves were in a trading alliance with Tevinter at the time, and didn't want that jeopardized.

So I would say that no, Elves are not affected by Dwarves.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Was wondering if it is only humans who cause elves to lose their immortality. It's just from what I've read, the Kossith and Dwarves don't affect them in this way, or aren't mentioned, but the Dalish who live in exclusively elven communities, away from all other races, are regaining their longevity somewhat.

And when elves become Qunari, are they fully integrated? It seems like a missed oppurtunity for the uber-efficient Qunari to have potentially ageless followers who could work and fight for years and years. Or is it the elven affinity for magic that prevents them doing this? Do they fear that all elves will one day become mages again?

As I recall, the Elves were trading partners with the Dwarves prior to the downfall of Arlathan, which indicates to them being fine with one another -- though they tend to remain in their respective areas.

After the fall of Arlathan, the Dwarves of Cad'Halash sheltered the refugee Elves of Arlathan from the Imperium, only for Kal-Sharok to kill the Dwarves and Elves to cover up the fact that the Dwarves sheltered Elves -- as the Dwarves were in a trading alliance with Tevinter at the time, and didn't want that jeopardized.

So I would say that no, Elves are not affected by Dwarves.

I wonder, if that is true, that if it is something about humans in particular that caused the shorter life spans, or if Kossiths would have this effect as well? Its possible the severed connection to the Fade prevents the Dwarves from affecting the elven lifespans... but then again, it could be something special about us humans that makes other cultures and races start rotting from the inside!

Ahhhh... good ole' humanity.

[Frocharocha]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Was wondering if it is only humans who cause elves to lose their immortality. It's just from what I've read, the Kossith and Dwarves don't affect them in this way, or aren't mentioned, but the Dalish who live in exclusively elven communities, away from all other races, are regaining their longevity somewhat.

And when elves become Qunari, are they fully integrated? It seems like a missed oppurtunity for the uber-efficient Qunari to have potentially ageless followers who could work and fight for years and years. Or is it the elven affinity for magic that prevents them doing this? Do they fear that all elves will one day become mages again?

As I recall, the Elves were trading partners with the Dwarves prior to the downfall of Arlathan, which indicates to them being fine with one another -- though they tend to remain in their respective areas.

After the fall of Arlathan, the Dwarves of Cad'Halash sheltered the refugee Elves of Arlathan from the Imperium, only for Kal-Sharok to kill the Dwarves and Elves to cover up the fact that the Dwarves sheltered Elves -- as the Dwarves were in a trading alliance with Tevinter at the time, and didn't want that jeopardized.

So I would say that no, Elves are not affected by Dwarves.

I wonder, if that is true, that if it is something about humans in particular that caused the shorter life spans, or if Kossiths would have this effect as well? Its possible the severed connection to the Fade prevents the Dwarves from affecting the elven lifespans... but then again, it could be something special about us humans that makes other cultures and races start rotting from the inside!

Ahhhh... good ole' humanity.

Humans are nto even from Thedas. They camed from the further North liek the Qunari. The humans possibly had deals with the Qunari before reachign Thedas, but that's just my theory. Anyway, humans in DA:Universe are responsible for many attrocities, wars and kingdoms. Perhpahs they are the newest and most powerfull children fo the Maker?

[General User]

It's not even clear that the elves ever were immortal in the first place. Or, if they were, on what terms this "immortality" took place (ie, was it only available to the nobility, to the very wealthy, to certain families or individuals, to powerful mages, etc.)

The only three living characters we've really seen in DA so far with truly remarkable life-spans have been Flemeth, Avernus, and Zathrian. All three (including the one elf) were only able to live so long as the result of dark and evil magics.

Based on that, I'd say that it is most likely that (as a natural consequence of the conquest and subsequent enslavement of the elves by humans) the knowledge of the magic rituals that sustained such long lives was lost to the elves. Magic rituals that were much likely alot less savory than the elves of 9:30 Dragon might like to believe.

Modifié par General User, 02 novembre 2012 - 01:14 .

[Potato Cat]

General User wrote...

It's not even clear that the elves ever were immortal in the first place. Or, if they were, on what terms this "immortality" took place (ie, was it only available to the nobility, to the very wealthy, to certain families or individuals, to powerful mages, etc.)

The only three living characters we've really seen in DA so far with truly remarkable life-spans have been Flemeth, Avernus, and Zathrian. All three (including the one elf) were only able to live so long as the result of dark and evil magics.

Based on that, I'd say that it is most likely that (as a natural consequence of the conquest and subsequent enslavement of the elves by humans) the knowledge of the magic rituals that sustained such long lives was lost to the elves. Magic rituals that were much likely alot less savory than the elves of 9:30 Dragon might like to believe.

Well the Dalish are living longer now they're so distanced from humanity. And there the lore does suggest that it applied to all elves, and perhaps there were no nobility and the such, and they could only "die" by entering Uthenera and even then some of them woke up again.

[General User]

Elfman wrote...

General User wrote...

It's not even clear that the elves ever were immortal in the first place. Or, if they were, on what terms this "immortality" took place (ie, was it only available to the nobility, to the very wealthy, to certain families or individuals, to powerful mages, etc.)

The only three living characters we've really seen in DA so far with truly remarkable life-spans have been Flemeth, Avernus, and Zathrian. All three (including the one elf) were only able to live so long as the result of dark and evil magics.

Based on that, I'd say that it is most likely that (as a natural consequence of the conquest and subsequent enslavement of the elves by humans) the knowledge of the magic rituals that sustained such long lives was lost to the elves. Magic rituals that were much likely alot less savory than the elves of 9:30 Dragon might like to believe.

Well the Dalish are living longer now they're so distanced from humanity. And there the lore does suggest that it applied to all elves, and perhaps there were no nobility and the such, and they could only "die" by entering Uthenera and even then some of them woke up again.

The Dalish life-style is also a lot different from that of the city elves, arguably a great deal healthier.

Like the rest of the elven immortality myth, the who's, what's and how's of uthenra are unclear at best.  It may very well be that, given access to the same magics, any person of any race in Thedas could live just as long as the old elves.

Modifié par General User, 02 novembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[henkez3]

It's actually probably like this: The elves of Arlathan used dark and evil magic to make themselves live unnaturally long. In this process, they corrupted The Golden City turning it into the Black City. Later, the Tevinter Imperium wants to know what the elves are doing to live for so long. The elves of Arlathan refuse to share their knowledge, this prompts the Tevinters to invade and ultimately sink Arlathan into the ground. Later, The Tevinters figure out parts of what made the elves immortal, something that relates to the Golden City. The Magisters thus try to get to the Golden City, finds it already corrupted as Corypheus implies, are affected by it and unleashes the first blight.

Boom! Just solved the mysteries of the Golden City, the ancient elves and the blights.

(I'm joking)

[The Elder King]

Frocharocha wrote...


Actually, all Dalish are ageless. Fenris is already around 1000. If you bring him in the party while having conversations with Qunari, he shows the ability to talk in Qunari lenguage and he also knows alot of about their culture.

Dalish aren't ageless. Zathrian lived for some centuries (don't know how much) because he was linked to the curse, and the elves in his clan said that he was an exception. Dalish (and Keepers expecially) live longer than city elves, but not that much.
And Fenris isn't 1000 years old. The reason he knows Qunari language and culture is because he stayed in Seheron for a while. He explained that in one dialogue. And why knowing Qunari customs would mean that he's 1000 anyway?

[Harle Cerulean]

Frocharocha wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

The Qunari don't pander different groups. They all have a purpose. The elves purpose isn't to become immortal again, it's to do with whatever life they are given.

There are many groups of Elfs. The Dalish wants to restore the old ways (partialy) teh city elfs wants to get a better life and so on.

Actually, all Dalish are ageless. Fenris is already around 1000. If you bring him in the party while having conversations with Qunari, he shows the ability to talk in Qunari lenguage and he also knows alot of about their culture.

1) The Dalish aren't ageless.  Their lifespans are slowly increasing, but they still age and die.  Zathrian was uncommonly long-lived, and he was a couple hundred years old, or thereabouts.

2) Fenris isn't even Dalish

3) Where in the world are you getting that he's 1000?  We have no idea how old he is; all we know is that he was running from Danarius for three years before he met the party, served Danarius for an unknown number of years, and was a slave from childhood.

[SpunkyMonkey]

I always read the lore in DA from the POV that Elven immortality was a myth, and that all the tales relating to it were just exaggerated folklore.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'd just like to point out that it isn't known whether the ancient elves were, in fact, immortal. The Dalish *claim* they were, but the Dalish don't know that much more about ancient elven history than anyone else.

Pretty much every group in Thedas has their own version of pre-history, and there are conflicts involved in all of them. It's possible ALL of them may be incorrect. For instance, Flemeth's daughter in The Silent Grove mentions a time "before the Veil", which is a pretty weird thought in itself. if the Veil hasn't always existed, the world before the Tevinter Imperium may have been fundamentally different than the Thedas that exists today. It may have been the creation of the Veil (if that is what happened) that led to the elves--who supposedly once ALL had magic--losing their lengthy lifespans.

Who knows.

[Maclimes]

Frocharocha wrote...
Fenris is already around 1000. If you bring him in the party while having conversations with Qunari, he shows the ability to talk in Qunari lenguage and he also knows alot of about their culture.

Eh? Fenris isn't 1000, at least as far as we know.

And he knows a lot about the Qunari because he was the slave of a Tevinter magister. Tevinter, who is at war with the Qunari. He was likely trained in Qunari language and culture to help him root out spies or simply understand his enemies.

[Fredward]

Frocharocha wrote...
Actually, all Dalish are ageless. Fenris is already around 1000. If you bring him in the party while having conversations with Qunari, he shows the ability to talk in Qunari lenguage and he also knows alot of about their culture.

Whoa bro, what you smokin? 


On a slightly unrelated note, do we know how long dwarves and Qunari live?