46 réponses à ce sujet

[Potato Cat]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

On a slightly unrelated note, do we know how long dwarves and Qunari live?

I don't think it's ever explicitly stated, but I would hazard a guess and say they both typically live longer, but not by much, than the average human, purely going off the norm in other fantasy worlds.

[Patchwork]

henkez3 wrote...

It's actually probably like this: The elves of Arlathan used dark and evil magic to make themselves live unnaturally long. In this process, they corrupted The Golden City turning it into the Black City. Later, the Tevinter Imperium wants to know what the elves are doing to live for so long. The elves of Arlathan refuse to share their knowledge, this prompts the Tevinters to invade and ultimately sink Arlathan into the ground. Later, The Tevinters figure out parts of what made the elves immortal, something that relates to the Golden City. The Magisters thus try to get to the Golden City, finds it already corrupted as Corypheus implies, are affected by it and unleashes the first blight.

Boom! Just solved the mysteries of the Golden City, the ancient elves and the blights.

(I'm joking)

There are hints that old elven magic is quite dark, I'd guess some sort of blood magic. It's used to delay the taint and I get the impression the mirror isn't the only dangerous thing Merrill feels should be remembered.

In general the dalish have a better standard of living than city elves it's not surprising they live longer.

[Felya87]

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

[The Elder King]

Felya87 wrote...

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

I doubt that they knew blood magic. The advantage the magisters had against the elves was blood magic, and the reason why the magisters were much powerful than the elven mages.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Elfman wrote...

Was wondering if it is only humans who cause elves to lose their immortality. It's just from what I've read, the Kossith and Dwarves don't affect them in this way, or aren't mentioned, but the Dalish who live in exclusively elven communities, away from all other races, are regaining their longevity somewhat.

And when elves become Qunari, are they fully integrated? It seems like a missed oppurtunity for the uber-efficient Qunari to have potentially ageless followers who could work and fight for years and years. Or is it the elven affinity for magic that prevents them doing this? Do they fear that all elves will one day become mages again?

It might have something to do with crossbreading as well. Elves living in ailianiges are very likely to get raped - by either abusing nobles, or drunken workers, and then have a half-breed children. It also might be something from food, or air, or water... you know how everything is reccyled, and eventualy something might caught in and affect the elves.

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...
I doubt that they knew blood magic. The advantage the magisters had against the elves was blood magic, and the reason why the magisters were much powerful than the elven mages.

Immortality has shown to be possible only through blood magic. If the ancient elves were ever immortal, they had to have been blood mages.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Felya87 wrote...

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

Sorry for double post. But its specifically stated that Blood Magic was teached by Dumant to the first Archon of Tevinter Imperium, so its highly unlikely that elves would know anything about it. They may, however, have a dark gods or some sinister diety, which they could worship with human - be it adult or children, sacrifices.

[Felya87]

hhh89 wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

I doubt that they knew blood magic. The advantage the magisters had against the elves was blood magic, and the reason why the magisters were much powerful than the elven mages.

maybe not the same kind of Blood Magic. But something similar, and not very...lecit? still, I don't think they where the saint the Dalish claim.
just looking at how dangerous is the Elluvian, and Zatharian's magic, made me think how dangerous is the Elven magic.
Maybe is some kind of old magic, like Morrigan's ritual, but I can't take out of my mind that the Elvhen weren't such good people.

Tevinter may have just gone to destroy a competitor in the dark magic.

[Patchwork]

hhh89 wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

I doubt that they knew blood magic. The advantage the magisters had against the elves was blood magic, and the reason why the magisters were much powerful than the elven mages.

The magisters had to sink a land mass in order to claim victory to me that doesn't say their magic was more powerful only that the magisters were ruthless.

[highcastle]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

Sorry for double post. But its specifically stated that Blood Magic was teached by Dumant to the first Archon of Tevinter Imperium, so its highly unlikely that elves would know anything about it. They may, however, have a dark gods or some sinister diety, which they could worship with human - be it adult or children, sacrifices.

Well, it's stated in the Chantry and the codex, which are not neccesarily the most trsutworthy sources in this sense because they have a vested interest in demonizing Tevinter and mages in general. It's very probable the Dalish practiced some form of blood magic. Just look at the markings on their faces, which are made in part from blood. Their blood is clearly a source of sigificance for them. 

Blood magic may have become frowned upon relatively recently (given the way Merrill's clan treats her), but that could be a result of the Chantry's influence even upon them.

[Potato Cat]

In DA:O, Morrigan mentions her magical upbringing was different to the vast majority of other mages, as she was taught by Flemeth. Given her mother's extreme age, I think the magic Flemeth uses is similar to magic used by the elves of old. Not blood magic exactly, but still fairly "dark".

And I don't think if elves were ever immortal, it was due to blood magic, but naturally occuring. Other characters who have achieved "immortality" are not elves, apart from Zathrian, but I think he unintentionally tied himself to the curse.

[Harle Cerulean]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Was wondering if it is only humans who cause elves to lose their immortality. It's just from what I've read, the Kossith and Dwarves don't affect them in this way, or aren't mentioned, but the Dalish who live in exclusively elven communities, away from all other races, are regaining their longevity somewhat.

And when elves become Qunari, are they fully integrated? It seems like a missed oppurtunity for the uber-efficient Qunari to have potentially ageless followers who could work and fight for years and years. Or is it the elven affinity for magic that prevents them doing this? Do they fear that all elves will one day become mages again?

It might have something to do with crossbreading as well. Elves living in ailianiges are very likely to get raped - by either abusing nobles, or drunken workers, and then have a half-breed children. It also might be something from food, or air, or water... you know how everything is reccyled, and eventualy something might caught in and affect the elves.

The children of elves and humans are human.  There are no half-elves, just elf-blooded humans.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
I doubt that they knew blood magic. The advantage the magisters had against the elves was blood magic, and the reason why the magisters were much powerful than the elven mages.

Immortality has shown to be possible only through blood magic. If the ancient elves were ever immortal, they had to have been blood mages.

The fact that now it's possible to achieve immortality only with blood magic doesn't mean that they used blood magic to achieve. From what we know, the elven race was born as immortal. I'm not saying that it's not possible that they used blood magic, but it's not the only possibility. Dalish lives longer than city elves. How would you explain that?

Ser Bard wrote...


The magisters had to sink a land
mass in order to claim victory to me that doesn't say their magic was
more powerful only that the magisters were ruthless.

We
don't know if the magisters sunk Arlathan because if was necessary for winning the war or
because they just wanted to destroy the elven land. From what I
understood from the lore in the games, the magisters were far more
powerful.
 

Modifié par hhh89, 02 novembre 2012 - 05:51 .

[The Elder King]

Felya87 wrote...

maybe not the same kind of Blood Magic. But something similar, and not very...lecit? still, I don't think they where the saint the Dalish claim.
just looking at how dangerous is the Elluvian, and Zatharian's magic, made me think how dangerous is the Elven magic.
Maybe is some kind of old magic, like Morrigan's ritual, but I can't take out of my mind that the Elvhen weren't such good people.

Tevinter may have just gone to destroy a competitor in the dark magic.

The Eluvian in DAO was taiinted by the darkspwan. In DA2, neither Merrill or Marethari know enough elven magic to fix it, so Merrill had to use blood magic for this task. Zathrian used blood magic to curse the humans in the past, not elven magic. From what we know, elven magic is related to the nature (as shown the Keeper tree in DAA and the part of Merrill's special tree related to Keeper's magic).
Oh, and Morrigan's ritual would be considered blood magic by the Chantry.
In the end, we don't know if the ancient elves used blood magic, or if their magic was dark. And about the Elvhen not being goodBe people, I remember that elves and humans were in peace for a period, before the arrival of the magisters. Before Dumat taught humans magic/blood magic, the humans were weaker than the elves. Why didn't the latter attack the former, if they were evil?
Regardless, even if I don't think they were evil and their magic was dark or related to blood magic, I can't say that for certain. We'll have to wait and hope that Bioware will reveal the story of the ancient elves in one game.

[henkez3]

hhh89 wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

maybe not the same kind of Blood Magic. But something similar, and not very...lecit? still, I don't think they where the saint the Dalish claim.
just looking at how dangerous is the Elluvian, and Zatharian's magic, made me think how dangerous is the Elven magic.
Maybe is some kind of old magic, like Morrigan's ritual, but I can't take out of my mind that the Elvhen weren't such good people.

Tevinter may have just gone to destroy a competitor in the dark magic.

The Eluvian in DAO was taiinted by the darkspwan. In DA2, neither Merrill or Marethari know enough elven magic to fix it, so Merrill had to use blood magic for this task. Zathrian used blood magic to curse the humans in the past, not elven magic. From what we know, elven magic is related to the nature (as shown the Keeper tree in DAA and the part of Merrill's special tree related to Keeper's magic).
Oh, and Morrigan's ritual would be considered blood magic by the Chantry.
In the end, we don't know if the ancient elves used blood magic, or if their magic was dark. And about the Elvhen not being goodBe people, I remember that elves and humans were in peace for a period, before the arrival of the magisters. Before Dumat taught humans magic/blood magic, the humans were weaker than the elves. Why didn't the latter attack the former, if they were evil?
Regardless, even if I don't think they were evil and their magic was dark or related to blood magic, I can't say that for certain. We'll have to wait and hope that Bioware will reveal the story of the ancient elves in one game.

Also, according to Duncan in DAO, the Eluvian found in the Dalish origin is Tevinter in origin. 

[ledod]

henkez3 wrote...

Also, according to Duncan in DAO, the Eluvian found in the Dalish origin is Tevinter in origin. 

I want to say that he was mistaken; according to witch hunt, I believe, Eluvian were Elven originally; the Tevinter merely retrofitted the mirrors' function to accomodate Tevinter needs.

[Serillen]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

My impression is that the Dalish have too much idealaized tho Old Elf. I would not be surprise if in truth the Elvhen where a group of Blood Mages who sacrificied child and humans.

Sorry for double post. But its specifically stated that Blood Magic was teached by Dumant to the first Archon of Tevinter Imperium, so its highly unlikely that elves would know anything about it. They may, however, have a dark gods or some sinister diety, which they could worship with human - be it adult or children, sacrifices.

Thats what the chantry says, in another codex its implied that the Elves taught the Magisters bloodmagic and that the magisters used the blood magic against the elves. I don't think blood magic is inherently evil, but its a lot easier to abuse than regular magic since using people to fuel your magic is a lot easier than getting large amounts of lyrium from the dwarves. Thats also an explanation for why the Magisters could overcome the Elves if they both had access to blood magic. The magisters were likely a lot more ruthless and willing to sacrifice their people in large amounts to achieve their goals.

Modifié par Serillen, 02 novembre 2012 - 11:04 .

[jennamarae]

ledod wrote...

I want to say that he was mistaken; according to witch hunt, I believe, Eluvian were Elven originally; the Tevinter merely retrofitted the mirrors' function to accomodate Tevinter needs.

That sounds about right. If I'm remembering correctly, the Tevinter's never could get them to work properly and only managed to use them for long distance communication while the ancient elves were able to use them as portals like Morrigan does at the end of Witch Hunt.

[Quill74Pen]

 Whoops. wrong topic thread ...

Modifié par Quill74Pen, 03 novembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[TEWR]

Frocharocha wrote...


Actually, all Dalish are ageless. Fenris is already around 1000. If you bring him in the party while having conversations with Qunari, he shows the ability to talk in Qunari lenguage and he also knows alot of about their culture.

Da ****?

Fenris isn't 1000 years old. He's lived in Tevinter for his whole life under Danarius -- twenty or thirty years -- and has had dealings with the Qunari culture because he's been to Seheron during his life. Plus, Tevinter is at war with the Qunari.

On a slightly unrelated note, do we know how long dwarves and Qunari live?

Dwarves live for centuries, because the codex entry Stalata Negat was written primarily -- if not entirely -- by one Dwarf over the course of the many Ages of the game.

ledod wrote...

I want to say that he was mistaken; according to witch hunt, I believe, Eluvian were Elven originally; the Tevinter merely retrofitted the mirrors' function to accomodate Tevinter needs.

Correct. After the fall of Arlathan, the Tevinters enslaved the Elves, destroyed/banned much of the Elven culture, and took most of the Eluvians to use them for their own purposes.

They then used blood magic to try and unlock their power, but could only use them for communication over long distances. Some tried to use dragonbones as well, but this didn't work either.

[ledod]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


They then used blood magic to try and unlock their power, but could only use them for communication over long distances. Some tried to use dragonbones as well, but this didn't work either.

Stupid, Tevinter. (My wizard says they're idiots)