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[Kreid]

TheMadCat wrote...I go the other way, I rather not hear about it at all or at the most some vague and open reference from an NPC where you can correct them if their wrong. You talk about a canon ending leading to a better story and the one notion you bring up is a codex entry. Bioware isn't pigeonholed here, they have a massive world space and an infinite time line to play with so the only way the actions of the first game should corner them is if they allow the to. None of the events really had a truly global impact, at least none that I can see. Even with the blight people in Fereldan seemed to go on with business as usual, so how much would people thousands of miles away decades into the future know or care aside from stories.

A great story can easily be told without ever referencing the events of Origins because unless their stories are interlinked there really is no reason to. Perhaps stories can be told and you can correct them on what you've "heard differently" or something. Unless they choose they aren't setup in a situation where they have to interlink so much, and if they make that choice I don't find it so unreasonable to expect them to make the effort and do it right.

I see where you are coming from, and I respect your opinion, what you imply could indeed happen and  Bioware could definitely come with ways to be as vage as possible about the events of DA:O, that however would require to set the sequel in a far away place from Ferelden and with a considerable amount of years of difference between chapters, but...is that what fans really want?
I've seen many people over here wanting for DA to be Mass Effect like and being able to carry on with your character even as unlikely as that is, most people is also wanting to see old party members back and both Morrigan and Alistair are all but confirmed to play big roles in the next installement.

If you want to have your own storyline in a story that moves forward there are only two ways, either to plan the sequel to adapt to every choice of to make a canon for it, that is fact.

Without any of those methods you cannot maintain coherence, it is possible in Mass Effect for example where you have a limited number of potentially important choices, a enduring hero with a common race, origin and a setup storyline which we know happens within the time frame of this character's lifeline, in DA however we have an ever-changing storyline with a character that can potentially have six different origins, three different races and not to mention a lot of choices that can spawn very diverse consequences, specially whether you are male or female, all this overlooking the more than likely possibility (more like immense provability) of taking control of a different character in another place and time which renders almost impossible to create a different outcome for each decision the original character decided to take in DA:O.

So here we have a certain number of options, either expecting Bioware to make a coherent storyline for every each of the immense number of variables that one can create during playing DA:O which strikes me as commendable but unrealistic (I firmly believe one day they will be able to, but not yet) having the game takling place far away from Ferelden and shutting everything from DA:O, or making a simple canon which could not hurt fans very much and so have the liberty to make a new story whenever, wherever they want in Thedas and being able to re-use characters we're already attached with.

As I said before, I like "my storyline" as much as the next guy and I'd love for the series to keep a track on it, but I'm realistic and objectively speaking, preventing Bioware to make references to DA:O origins or returning characters, as well as following interesting plot lines (like the Dark Ritual) isn't going to improve the quality of any next installments of the franchise, and so i would definitely prefer for a canon to exist.

I understand that many people don't like the idea of being able to have a lot of freedom in their choices and customization and then having a preset story "nullifying" everything you had done, but I think we should try to see the big picture and realize what's best for the series overall, we have all that free will an we're supposed to enjoy it while we playing, it's a gift from the developers compared to other games, and that makes Bioware unique, but there are limits and we should try to respect the developer's own choices in this regard of whether they want to install a canon instead of stubbornly holding to our own version of the events, IMO.

[barrelofmonkeyzz]

There is only one "canon" ending to DA1 so far that really needs to carry over into DA2: Urthemiel's soul is freed from the Taint.

It's either accomplished by the ritual (Urthemiel recovers with its sense of identity mostly intact), or Urthemiel the shade with bits of Gray Warden fused into it has to find a willing host to continue its adventures in Thedas.

If I were writing the gamelore outline for the next 3 or 4 years it would go something like this (ignoring minor DLC):

2010 -
   DA1 expansion 1 -- 9:42 Dragon, Orlais brings forth a boy they claim is Cailan's natural son, and therefore the true king of Ferelden. The player either plays a new Warden out of Amarintine, or their original PC in whatever role they chose for the DA1 ending. The adventure takes place in parts of Ferelden and Orlais as the player tries to prevent another civil war. Allistair and/or Anora are major characters.

2011-
   DA1 expansion 2 -- 9:57 Dragon, The player's Warden from expansion 1 is at Weisshaupt when the Calling hits. He/she is headed towards the deep roads in Kal Sharok. He/she is intercepted by Morrigan and her young companion, who is also suffering from the taint. They're desperately searching for a cure for the taint and coerce/convince the PC to help them. If the PC did the dark ritual, the companion is Urthemiel, if they passed on the ritual, then it isn't. This is when you find out the true nature of the grey warden taint and more details on how Archdemons are actually made.

At the end of the DA1 cycle Urthemiel is a shade with bits of a grey warden mixed in, one way or another

50 years is plenty of time for the common folk outside of Ferelden to become really fuzzy and misinformed about specific details on what really happened down there. Any grey wardens that were made near that time would have gone to the deep roads, including Allistair and the first PC. Any companions from the first game would be over 70 and probably dead.

2012/2013-
   DA2 -- 9:80 Dragon, The player creates a new character and plays through a new origin, race, and class like the first game. The convergent event this time is the PC agreeing to becoming Urthemiel's new host. 3/4 of the game will be you looking for the other 4 former Archdemons trying to piece together just what the hell really happened to cause the creation of the Black City and the Darkspawn, etc. You'll have to contend with keeping your identity hidden from the Chantry, the Magisters, and the Wardens(who are the unsuspecting eyes of the Black City). The last 1/4 of the game will be you and your motley crew scrambling to rescue Razikale(Dirthamen) and Lusakan(Falon'Din) before the darkspawn get to them, otherwise they will rise as archdemons together.

Some thoughts on possible future DA game mechanics-
   Having 7 immortal "old souls" able to bind to any physical form could lead to players being able to choose their companions' race, class, and gender, yet the game writers will still have control over plot personalities for those souls. It would also make it easier to integrate multiplayer into a plotline if a player's choices are dictated by the soul they choose to represent.

[Spitz6860]

i really want to play my character all the way through w/e future game that is coming, and i want the ending of the last one to be around 30 years later and you going to the deep roads and they send waves of darkspawns at you and see how long you survive. you know possibly even make a minigame out of it, like the horde mode lol

[TheMadCat]

@Creid-X:  Well here is the thing, we're both looking at it differently. You're looking short term I'm looking long term. Bioware has said they want to expand the story of Thedas and it's been all but said that once this story is wrapped up they'll move on to the next chapter, which I'd assume is quite a few years into the future in another land focusing on a whole new plot point with a slew of new character. Dragon Age, or at least the Thedas universe, was never meant to focus on one character rather a series of stories. That's what I'm talking about when discussing their ability to be vague with past references, future games in the series which have nothing interlinked aside from the fact they are in the same universe.

As for the short term. I think it's safe to say 95% of the people here want or expect to see the Warden's story continued is some way and I'd fall into that category. At the moment looking and everything said weather confirmed or hinted at and looking at the way the game ended it is safe to assume it will continue, generally an expansion is the most accepted theory on what will be used to continue. Ideally it would also allow for a "cleaner" ending, meaning it's not going in a billion different directions.

What I'm getting at is they don't need to worry about constant references for every game ever made in the world of Thedas, rather only expansions/games that interlink the stories in some way. And since Bioware as said that plan is to create new stories in new places I don't see any logical reason for them to continue interlinking them all. So that would leave, presumably, an expansion or two, maybe some DLC, that deal with events directly related to this story. It's not an overly difficult task and there have been a dozen plausible suggestions on how it can be done. Simply building directly on top of the OC and essentially extending the game is the easiest way to go, sort through dialogue choices, allow the character to select an ending similar to how you select an origin, import the character. There are enough options I think for them to go about and do this and presumably they'd only have to worry about it once, maybe twice depending on how much further they go with this character/story.

Now I'm also a realist and I understand fully that not every little detail and choice can be brought over. Companions jump out at me, how do you account for ever companion, how they left, when you kicked them out, did you kill them. To many variables to mess with for so little acknowledgment, so if they say they all lived happily ever after then fine. Even things like who you selected as allies I think can be avoided. Big enough that they shouldn't be canonized, but not big enough for them to worry about carrying all possible details over. Give them vague references, unless you purposely bring the character back to that location there is no reason to worry about what Dwarf you picked for king, did you save the mages, ect. Clever writing and you can explain the events that happened without ever getting into details.

So really the only thing I'd like to see carry over fully are the ending possibilities. What did you do with Loghain, did you accept Morrigan's offer, what happened to Anora, who slew the Archdemon, did Alistair become king. These are the things that would need to be carried over because these are the things that would have the most radical effect on the short term future of your character, if he comes back, or any new character who picks up where the story left off. But my mindset is this, if you want a canon ending, write a canon ending. You can have an amazing story and a great RPG that leads to a single ending, or a couple of very similar endings and I have no problem if writers and designers go that route. If they decide to allow a large variety of choices, don't turn are and make all of them but one mute otherwise what was the purpose of giving choices in the first place if at the end of the day only one was going to stick. Save yourself the trouble and the criticism and canonize it from the start if that is your long term objective.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 03 janvier 2010 - 06:08 .

[Sable Phoenix]

This would be the cannon ending.

[metalica11]

My only request is that the PC doesn't have a gender canon, that all, I hate when a game of gender choice chooses a canon, that is most usually male. If they need to go canon, make it female, but best possibility is no gender canon. There is no reason why the GW's romances have to be a part of a canon thus no reason to have a gender canon. I can deal with them having a canon ending as long as this is done.

[SeanMurphy2]

I think the advantage with the canon ending to Baldur's Gate was being able to bring back the memorable characters like Minsc from the first game. They also may have wanted to deal with the Bhaalspawn revelation.

I think the developers enjoyed writing Morrigan and she was the poster figure of the first game. I can understand them wanting to bring her back. Alistair was popular too but seemed to have more closure to his story. Leliana returning could make sense if it is set in Orlais.

But I think Bioware are capable of creating equally compelling new characters for a sequel. I think a sequel would be fine using a completely new character or not bringing any of the companions back.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 03 janvier 2010 - 04:47 .

[Godak]

Do you think Bio should include an option to create a character that is NOT related to the Warden from DA:O?



That would help greatly in the grand scheme of things, as those who chose self-sacrifice could still have their choices carried over, but they could start semi-fresh.



Mmmm...semi-fresh.

[TheMadCat]

Nah, that's to much work to be practical, you'd essentially be writing two different stories. It'd be one or the other, no way they'd do both at once. The most we'd get if the character was continued is the option like MotB, you can create a character specifically for the expansion but it falls from a "canon" ending.