157 réponses à ce sujet

[Urgon]

http://www.gameranx....oject-eternity/

You've stated in the past that you don't like romances in games—at least to the extent that they've been done in games thus far. Were you to implement a romance subplot in Project Eternity, what would it involve?

Not a big fan of romances. I did four in Alpha Protocol because Chris Parker, our project director, demanded it because he thinks romance apparently is easy, or MAYBE it’s because he wanted to be an **** and give me tons of them to do because I LOVE them so much (although to be honest, I think he felt it was more in keeping with the spy genre to have so many romances, even if I did ask to downscope them). At least I got to do the “hatemance” version of most of them, which makes it a little more palatable.

Also, the only reason the romance bits in Mask of the Betrayer worked was because George Ziets helped me with them since he was able to describe what love is to me and explain how it works (I almost asked for a PowerPoint presentation). It seems like a messy, complicated process, not unlike a waterbirth. Don’t even get me started on the kissing aspects, which is revolting because people EAT with their mouths. Bleh.

So if I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity - I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance. Maybe I’d explore it after a “loving” relationship crashed and burned, and one or both was killed in the aftermath enough for them to see if it had really been worth it spending the last few years of their physical existence chained to each other in a dance of human misery and/or a plateau of soul-killing compromise. Or maybe I’d explore a veteran’s love affair with his craft of murder and allowing souls to be freed to travel beyond their bleeding shell, or a Cipher’s obsession with plucking the emotions of deep-rooted souls to try and see what makes people attracted to each other beyond their baser instincts and discovers love... specifically, his love of manipulating others. You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.


What do you think of his approach?

Modifié par Urgon, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[Wolfspawn]

The only reason I do romance in video games is because I can. I will gladly play Project Eternity, romances or no.

[Urgon]

I don't say that romances are an important part of the game.Personally i don't care if they will put romances in the game or not. What i want to know is if there are romances in the game but are of the tragic or twisted kind, will the people who want romance in a game be happy with that? or they prefer the Bioware-happy ending type of romance?

Modifié par Urgon, 02 novembre 2012 - 09:51 .

[Endurium]

Avellone will be forever alone with that kind of viewpoint.

That said, I enjoyed the PC's possible relationship with Safiya in MotB. Companionship grew into friendship which grew into love. Best of all, in my opinion, was the lack of a gratuitous sex scene, requiring either a black screen or (think of Bioware here) awkward renderings of kissing and embracing. Looks like I have George to thank for Safiya.

Romances aren't important to me such that I would ban a game lacking them; few of my favorites actually feature romance. Most possible LIs don't really interest me that much so if I pursue one, it's because I'm interested in the stat boosts I get out of the digital relationship.

[Seboist]

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

[slimgrin]

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Exactly.

[legion999]

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, Valve needs to stop with that nonsense.

[Urgon]

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

I agree. But to be fair, i think this approach works better in linear or semi-linear games like JRPGs. Planescape Torment and Mask of the Betrayer both had romances that serve a thematic purpose and both are fairly linear.
Not that this is an excuse for that ''certain'' other company

[Emzamination]

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Sadism is Sadism. That said, I won't be purchasing PE, simply because I don't want to see that ****.

Modifié par Emzamination, 03 novembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[Seboist]

Emzamination wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Sadism is Sadism. That said, I won't be purchasing PE, simply because I don't want to see that ****.

Good.

[Nerdage]

Is the powerpoint presentation avaliable to download somewhere..?

Honestly though, outright saying you don't do romance (at least not ones that work) seems a bit like saying you don't do happiness, or anger; it's something people do, so I don't really see the case for avoiding it, not if you're trying to give the player freedom to interact with characters however they want... I guess if he just doesn't like writing them then you can't argue with that, but I don't see how limiting yourself before you've even started a good thing.

[KDD-0063]

Romance in some recent games consist of ... as follows:
1) Two people talk;
2) Flirt value? check;
3) Sexual preference? check;
4) Black screen / sex scene.

That is not romance. That is more like a mathematical formula.

[kobayashi-maru]

Despite having similar thoughts on romance content - especially as a math formula - for me Bioware did a great one. It may not have been intentional to start but the male Shep/ Kaden romance came out - pardon pun - brilliantly even with math formula. It was trilogy long tease and that worked in my opinion far better than cannon Liara one. Shame the Tali one didn't though EC scene was great.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Lol. Much of this interview was very tongue-in-cheek. I wouldn't taken any quotes from here and believe it to be some kind of set in stone statement. There'll more than likely be romance in PE, but it won't be conventional romance. Well, at least conventional in the Bioware sense.

[Urgon]

Emzamination wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Sadism is Sadism. That said, I won't be purchasing PE, simply because I don't want to see that ****.

Is romance so important for you that it is the sole factor if you buy a game or not?
The only thing you enjoyed in bioware games are the romances???

[bussinrounds]

nerdage wrote...

Is the powerpoint presentation avaliable to download somewhere..?

Honestly though, outright saying you don't do romance (at least not ones that work) seems a bit like saying you don't do happiness, or anger; it's something people do, so I don't really see the case for avoiding it, not if you're trying to give the player freedom to interact with characters however they want... I guess if he just doesn't like writing them then you can't argue with that, but I don't see how limiting yourself before you've even started a good thing.

  So is doing taxes and taking a dump.  Do you want them in your video games ?

  Seriously, I don't know how RPGs ever did without romances in the first place.

[AllThatJazz]

If I don't see Every Single One of MCA's subplots in PE I will complain and send Avellone hate mail.

Seriously, I get a kick out of romance content Bioware style as a nice little diversion, and occasionally something genuinely sweet (like Garrus), but they are definitely not central to whether or not I buy the games. Exploring inter-personal relationships in different ways to 'romances' sounds honestly intriguing to me, as does the idea of romantic love being twisted into something vile ...

[Nerdage]

bussinrounds wrote...
So is doing taxes and taking a dump.  Do you want them in your video games ?

Well yeah but you can't move these days for all these games about taxes and #2's, I think we all want something different by now... 

Modifié par nerdage, 03 novembre 2012 - 05:35 .

[Pedrak]

A few points in no particular order:

1) I'm always surprised when players talk about romances and generically peg themselves as "pro" or "against". It's a game feature, it is not inherently good or bad. Just like, say, a murder mystery quest is not inherently good or bad. There are good romances than enhance the game, mediocre romances that just about provide some fluff padding, and bad romances that are cheesy and pointless.

2) Romances more at risk of not working are the "cute ones" and those with little relation with the overarching plot. For example, a successful romance in the DAO series was the one with Morrigan, because she was a well-developed, well-acted character and the relationship gave a lot more weight and resonance to the final "ultimate sacrifice/dark ritual/trust her or not?" dilemma. It also broke the trite convention - just as the Viconia one did - of "always agree, be nice and mushy to get the girl".

3) I suspect most people against romances are actually irked by the fandom surrounding them, which can be admittedly kind of creepy and embarrassing.

4) If they don't have romances in PE, fine. If they have them and they are interesting, original, unique (like the platonic affection between the PC and a chaste succubus - remember, Chris?), or dark and twisted (with the ghost of a dead woman still in love with the man who caused her death to use her as a resource), even better. What would NOT be fine would be if they had romances and did them poorly - which they won't.

Modifié par Pedrak, 03 novembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[wsandista]

Seboist wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Sadism is Sadism. That said, I won't be purchasing PE, simply because I don't want to see that ****.

Good.

[The Hierophant]

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Indeed.

[Chromie]

bussinrounds wrote...
So is doing taxes and taking a dump.  Do you want them in your video games ?

Taxes are going to be in Star Citizen. 

[Emzamination]

Urgon wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Sadism is Sadism. That said, I won't be purchasing PE, simply because I don't want to see that ****.

Is romance so important for you that it is the sole factor if you buy a game or not?
The only thing you enjoyed in bioware games are the romances???

I couldn't just be turned off by the man's preference for sadism? No, nothing's ever that basic is it?

[Chromie]

Emzamination wrote...

I couldn't just be turned off by the man's preference for sadism? No, nothing's ever that basic is it?

/facepalm

I didn't realize he had to be sadistic to tell a good story or do you just prefer the generic stuff Bioware keeps dishing out?