157 réponses à ce sujet

[Selene Moonsong]

It is not news that Chris Avellone does not care much for romances. Anyone who has been involved in playing any games by Obsidian knows this.

[slimgrin]

Emzamination wrote...

Urgon wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Sadism is Sadism. That said, I won't be purchasing PE, simply because I don't want to see that ****.

Is romance so important for you that it is the sole factor if you buy a game or not?
The only thing you enjoyed in bioware games are the romances???

I couldn't just be turned off by the man's preference for sadism? No, nothing's ever that basic is it?

I think he understands the importance of setting and motivation as a backdrop for character interaction, including romance. Bioware just peddles romance for its own sake, vacuous dating sim fodder. But hey it sells.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 novembre 2012 - 01:48 .

[Foolsfolly]

Preference for sadism?

Hyberbole, anyone? Serving it hot and fresh.

[wsandista]

How the hell does someone get "preference for sadism" from what MCA said?

Oh wait....... it is Emzamination.

Modifié par wsandista, 04 novembre 2012 - 02:14 .

[Foolsfolly]

KDD-0063 wrote...

Romance in some recent games consist of ... as follows:
1) Two people talk;
2) Flirt value? check;
3) Sexual preference? check;
4) Black screen / sex scene.

That is not romance. That is more like a mathematical formula.

While only semi-serious there's a Cracked article that I think you'd dig.

5 Prejudices That Video Games Can't Seem to Get Over.

There number 4 is related to the topic at hand:

#4. Relationship Mini-Games Create Exclusively Unhealthy Relationships

These range from BioWare's plot-spanning and game-changing "Romance" side quests to God of War III's completely ridiculous, sexual-insecurity-overcompensation
mini-game. But if anyone has figured out how to make a video game
relationship that isn't utterly horrifying, we haven't seen it yet.
Take Infamous 2, which has two relationship options: the sassy
black woman (if you're evil) and the bookish Asian woman (if you're
heroic). In addition to starting out at the "Haha, like, really?" level
of racism right from the jump, the outcome of both options is the same:
Cole MacGrath, the hero, gets their powers, doesn't have to share his
own and then kills both of the women. Even the ostensibly progressive
BioWare drops the ball, with their portrayal of Jack in Mass Effect 2. As this 1Up article points out,
the only way to effectively cure her post-traumatic stress disorder is
to literally **** it out of her. If you play as a female Shepard or just
decide not to romance her, her character's story doesn't come to any
kind of conclusion.

Then there's Fable, where divorcing your wife earns you 600 "evil" points. Murdering her, however, only gets you 16.

So What's the Deal?

Relationships need to serve a purpose in video games, and since writing a quality story arc is, like, really hard, most game relationships end up functioning as just another way to earn in-game perks instead of advancing the plot. Grand Theft Auto's relationship system revolves around the male player tricking women into
falling in love with him so he can use their stuff (sleep with a
mechanic for free car repairs, or a cop for getting treated nicer by
police), and he can "romance" as many as he'd like, consequence-free.
While this kind of thing appeals to the "nerdy gamer who can't get a
real relationship" stereotype, it's pretty frustrating and more than a
little insulting for the millions of gamers who actually have emotionally matured beyond the age of 14.

Take us, for example: We're operating at least on the level of a
17-year-old. But, y'know: a deep one. Like a French kid or something.
Give us some le credit, gaming industry.

They actually poke fun at BioWare a little more than anyone else throughout the whole article. It's a fun read. Sometimes Cracked is really fun... sometimes not... This is a good one.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 04 novembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Emzamination]

wsandista wrote...

How the hell does someone get "preference for sadism" from what MCA said?

Oh wait....... it is Emzamination.

Notice I use the word 'preference'. One would assume (since we seem quite inclined) there's a strong possibility my opinion has been formed across various interviews and not just one article. /eye roll

Kudos on the dig attempt but execution needs work.

Modifié par Emzamination, 04 novembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[Persephone]

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, CDPR really needs to step up their game. Sex Cards? And Playboy covers?

Sooooooooo juvenile. :innocent:

[slimgrin]

Persephone wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, CDPR really needs to step up their game. Sex Cards? And Playboy covers?

Sooooooooo juvenile. :innocent:

Jesus christ. Romance and sex plays a lesser role in their games than Bioware's. By far.

[Chromie]

Persephone wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, CDPR really needs to step up their game. Sex Cards? And Playboy covers?

Sooooooooo juvenile. :innocent:

And yet the romance in Witcher games served a bigger (not huge mind you) purpose than in Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Skelter192, 04 novembre 2012 - 03:23 .

[spirosz]

slimgrin wrote...


Romance and sex plays a lesser role in their games 

I lol'ed.

[slimgrin]

spirosz wrote...

slimgrin wrote...


Romance and sex plays a lesser role in their games 

I lol'ed.

Lol all you want. With CDPR it's an afterthought. With Bioware it's a priority. Bioware has you f*cking half your team, lovey-dovey dialog included for each encounter. CDPR does no such thing. You just f*ck and move on, or you skip it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 novembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[spirosz]

slimgrin wrote...

spirosz wrote...

slimgrin wrote...


Romance and sex plays a lesser role in their games 

I lol'ed.

Lol all you want. With CDPR it's an afterthought. With Bioware it's a priority. Bioware has you f*cking half your team, lovey-dovey dialog included for each encounter. CDPR does no such thing. You just f*ck and move on, or you skip it.

Hit a nerve!  I'm a fan of CDPR, but I still lol'ed at your "lesser role." 

[bussinrounds]

What the hell is with this obsession with romances in RPGs these days anyway ?

I think Pedrak was right with point #3. It's just weird and off-putting to see all this focus, sigs and such concerning it. Wtf is wrong with you ppl ? Are you that lonely ? Go watch some porn or something, FFS.

[Savber100]

And the obligatory CDPR vs Bioware still slips through... gosh, you guys thrive in pointless conflict.

[Emzamination]

bussinrounds wrote...

What the hell is with this obsession with romances in RPGs these days anyway ?

There is no obsession with romance, it's a genre people genuinely enjoy, same as you might enjoy sci-fi or horror in a game.There has always been heavy focus and demand for romance in media for time immemorial, working back from high rated shows such as True blood, Game of thrones, the borgias,mad men, degrassi, dexter, modern family to cinema, soap operas, telenovelas, romance novels, shakespear, Aethiopica, ect.People enjoy seeing or hearing about love and happiness they themselves hope to but may not yet have achieved.Is it wrong or inhuman to have empathy or desire for an Ideal?

I think Pedrak was right with point #3. It's just weird and off-putting
to see all this focus, sigs and such concerning it. Wtf is wrong with
you ppl ? Are you that lonely ? Go watch some porn or something,
FFS.

What Inane logic...

Why must someone be weird, lonely or sexless because they enjoy a romantic character? How did you even arrive at that conclusion?

You do realize married women and men with families have been reading romance novels and watching soap operas fantasizing about the characters within for decades, yes? If anything most children owe their lives to romance in media as it often tends to amplify the love life by stimulating feelings of desire.

I find it interesting that you would equate the portrayal of love between two people with mindless sex between strangers.Just goes to show your maturity, understanding and experience have the emotional depth of a wet piece of tissue paper.

If anything is weird here, it's your dictation on how people should think and act according to... Hmm good question... According to what exactly?

[legion999]

Foolsfolly wrote...

KDD-0063 wrote...

Romance in some recent games consist of ... as follows:
1) Two people talk;
2) Flirt value? check;
3) Sexual preference? check;
4) Black screen / sex scene.

That is not romance. That is more like a mathematical formula.

While only semi-serious there's a Cracked article that I think you'd dig.
5 Prejudices That Video Games Can't Seem to Get Over.

That article has some decent points, but the inaccuracies in it mean I can't take it seriously.

[Han Shot First]

Persephone wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, CDPR really needs to step up their game. Sex Cards? And Playboy covers?

Sooooooooo juvenile. :innocent:

I love the Witcher 2, but it quite possibily has the most juvenile 'romances' of any RPG I've ever played. Bioware looks mature in comparison.

Even the ostensibly progressive BioWare drops the ball, with their portrayal of Jack in Mass Effect 2. As this 1Up article points out, the only way to effectively cure her post-traumatic stress disorder is to literally f*ck it out of her.

I literally laughed out loud when reading that part.

The funny part is that it is true.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 novembre 2012 - 10:46 .

[Pedrak]

Emzamination wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...

What the hell is with this obsession with romances in RPGs these days anyway ?

There is no obsession with romance, it's a genre people genuinely enjoy, same as you might enjoy sci-fi or horror in a game.There has always been heavy focus and demand for romance in media for time immemorial, working back from high rated shows such as True blood, Game of thrones, the borgias,mad men, degrassi, dexter, modern family to cinema, soap operas, telenovelas, romance novels, shakespear, Aethiopica, ect.People enjoy seeing or hearing about love and happiness they themselves hope to but may not yet have achieved.Is it wrong or inhuman to have empathy or desire for an Ideal?

I have no issues with people enjoying romances in RPGs (I very much liked a few myself, ex. Viconia, Morrigan), but the fact that there is a certain level of obsession about them on these forums is, quite simply, undeniable. There are threads of thousands of pages about romancing a certain character, every time a new Bio game is under development we are flooded with requests to make siblings(!)/certain races/whatever breathes or moves romanceable, there are WHOLE FORUMS on BSN devoted almost exclusively to romances, and there is an impressive amount of fan fiction and fan art on the web with Shep and the other protagonists in cute (or obscene, it depends) situations with their LIs.

People enjoy talking about love and romance, that's fine - but when there are 4000-pages threads on romancing a certain character - whether she is Tali, Cersei Lannister, Sookie, Bella Swan, or whoever - we go from "reasonable human interest" to a form of obssession.

Nothing wrong about that, I guess - to each his own , and if I am posting on the DA3 forum waiting for a game that won't come out before a year, it means I am an obsessive nerd too.

But I don't see how anyone can deny that on the Bio forums the focus on romance is over-the-top and borderline pathologic. And I suspect the strong reaction of some people (including Avellone?) toward romances in RPGs stems not from the romances themselves - which are, after all, almost always avoidable, and can be done well - but from this kind of fandom. Just like the hate toward Twilight comes not from a badly-written and soon-to-be-forgotten book/movie series, but from its adoring and very vocal fandom.

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 novembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Han Shot First wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, CDPR really needs to step up their game. Sex Cards? And Playboy covers?

Sooooooooo juvenile. :innocent:

I love the Witcher 2, but it quite possibily has the most juvenile 'romances' of any RPG I've ever played. Bioware looks mature in comparison.

The Triss relationship isn't juvenile, it is a relationship intertwined heavily with the plot. Once she's taken. it gives Geralt reason to move his ass, it layers the chase with a personal element, and it ends the game with a heart wrenching decision. 

The side romps are just that. They can't be considered romance, but you can call them juvenile romps if you wish.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 04 novembre 2012 - 01:39 .

[bussinrounds]

Pedrak wrote...
 There are threads of thousands of pages about romancing a certain character, every time a new Bio game is under development we are flooded with requests to make siblings(!)/certain races/whatever breathes or moves romanceable, there are WHOLE FORUMS on BSN devoted almost exclusively to romances, and there is an impressive amount of fan fiction and fan art on the web with Shep and the other protagonists in cute (or obscene, it depends) situations with their LIs.
.

  Holy s**t.  I didn't know it was THAT bad. I'm glad I don't venture into such vile and disgusting places.

[Urgon]

Pedrak wrote...

But I don't see how anyone can deny that on the Bio forums the focus on romance is over-the-top and borderline pathologic. And I suspect the strong reaction of some people (including Avellone?) toward romances in RPGs stems not from the romances themselves - which are, after all, almost always avoidable, and can be done well - but from this kind of fandom. Just like the hate toward Twilight comes not from a badly-written and soon-to-be-forgotten book/movie series, but from its adoring and very vocal fandom.

This

[wsandista]

Emzamination wrote...

wsandista wrote...

How the hell does someone get "preference for sadism" from what MCA said?

Oh wait....... it is Emzamination.

Notice I use the word 'preference'. One would assume (since we seem quite inclined) there's a strong possibility my opinion has been formed across various interviews and not just one article. /eye roll

Kudos on the dig attempt but execution needs work.

How does anything he's ever said indicate he has a "preference for sadism".

Your comprehension needs work.


(directed at the thread in general)Also, how does The Witcher 2 factor in to this?

Modifié par wsandista, 04 novembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[Pedrak]

wsandista wrote...

(directed at the thread in general)Also, how does The Witcher 2 factor in to this?

The Witcher 2 always  factors into these discussion, whether to be demonized as borderline Polish porn with mutants, Dwarves and redhead witches (it's not: the game had like 2 facultative sex scenes and a couple of boobs here and there - less than what you'd see in an episode of True Blood or Game of Thrones) or to be praised as a wonderful game, an example of flawless, brave writing and admirable RPG complexity, the best of the last years (and it's not that either: it's...ok, but the first one was way better).

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 novembre 2012 - 03:25 .

[Persephone]

slimgrin wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That's the correct approach, to make "romance" serve a narrative or thematic purpose and not as mere juvenile sexual wish fulfillment like a "certain" other company does.

Yeah, CDPR really needs to step up their game. Sex Cards? And Playboy covers?

Sooooooooo juvenile. :innocent:

Jesus christ. Romance and sex plays a lesser role in their games than Bioware's. By far.

No. It really did not.

Never mind that the forced romance with Triss being a plot element didn't work on me. When she was taken, I couldn't have cared less,

[Urgon]

You could build an entire dungeon and quest where he devotes himself to replicating facsimiles of love, reducer a Higher Love to a baser thing and using NPCs he encounters as puppets for his experimentations, turning something supposedly beautiful into something filthy, mechanical, but surrounded by blank-eyed soul-twisted drones echoing all the hollow Disney-like platitudes and fairy tale existence where everyone lives happily ever after.

Tongue in cheek reference to BSN?