157 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

Bioware has made romances into some formulaic expression all we ever have to do is talk several times and we win a sex scene. Yes, win because it comes off as cheap.

One factor in making a game enjoyable is fulfilling competency through challenge, and the level of challenge in the above is very little to none. Even if you'd somehow picked the wrong choice, there's always reloading the game. Until they find a way to add more conflict and variety to that scenario, the interest will be waning for more than a few fans.

[Fidget6]

Skelter192 wrote...
Bioware has made romances into some formulaic expression all we ever have to do is talk several times and we win a sex scene. Yes, win because it comes off as cheap.

I will agree Bioware's romance system is too formulaic. We know the whole thing is leading up to sex right before the final battle (and the sex is what locks in the romance for your import, so sex=romance apparently) and then throughout the rest of the game the romance is barely mentioned other than your one-on-one conversations on the normandy/in camp. 

[Roflbox]

mousestalker wrote...

Mr. Avellone's statement was a disappointment. Were I aware of his sentiments regarding romance prior to the Kickstarter campaign, I would have made certain decisions differently. 

Have you never played any game that he has worked on? He hates traditional romance in games which has been getting stale or come off as some kind of gimmick especially in Bioware games.

mousestalker wrote...
Romance is not only part of life, it's an adventure. Part of the reason we are all here are the mysterious workings of romance in our ancestors' lives.

Now that is very juvenile. Romance, like Avellone is saying, doesn't always have to be about two people hooking up which fyi is how it is in Bioware games. People are raped, forced into marriage and all kinds of horrible things happen it's not always an adventure it's also a horror story.

mousestalker wrote...
The net result is that I am likely to not buy the game at release and may never buy. Despite coming out on Linux, which is wicked cool, it doesn't sound like much more than a smash 'n bash.

Already you are making judgements without knowing a single detail except lore and races. Avellone has never liked romance yet he worked on games that has it handled it far better than anything Bioware ever has. Zeits is also on board so stop with the hate. DA2, ME1-3 are all "smash 'n bash".

[J.C. Blade]

Just a quick note on the whole Triss in TW1 and Triss in TW2 business:
In TW1 Triss was essentially given the personality of Yennefer from the books (since they couldn't bring two amnesiac characters back from the dead off the bat). Once CDPR decided to bring Yen herself back into the story she was given her original personality from the books back.

Also, sex =/= romance; deep, close relationship =/= romance. I wish people acknowledged that.

[AllThatJazz]

Skelter192 wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
If Ves is no man's plaything, then why make her shaggable by Geralt at all? It would surely have made more logical sense in that case to have her tell Geralt to get lost, or that she only likes him as a friend, 

I've had sex with my friends before. Romance doesn't equal sex.

mousestalker wrote...
Romance is not only part of life, it's an adventure. Part of the reason we are all here are the mysterious workings of romance in our ancestors' lives. 

Some of our parents may have been forced into marriage. Is that romantic? Bioware has made romances into some formulaic expression all we ever have to do is talk several times and we win a sex scene. Yes, win because it comes off as cheap.

You first point: Er, sure? But why bring sex into the equation at all if the idea is to present Ves as a powerful woman who doesn't need to express herself through sex (as she was forced to do as a slave)? It kind of defeats the purpose of her character. Why not just stop at the combat, with a dialogue expressing gratitude that Geralt treated her as an equal?

Point number two: Eh, Most romance in games is kinda cheap in terms of gameplay. It's conversations leading to declarations of love leading to a fade to black and some LI specific dialogue, or it's buying someone a cheap shawl and winning a playing card, or it's beating a woman in combat and winning a nice boob shot or two for your trouble. Doesn't it just depend on how you like your sex and/or romance presented, if at all?

Edited to better clarify that I do not necessarily equate sex and romance; however nor are they necessarily mutually exclusive

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 04 novembre 2012 - 07:09 .

[slimgrin]

J.C. Blade wrote...

Just a quick note on the whole Triss in TW1 and Triss in TW2 business:
In TW1 Triss was essentially given the personality of Yennefer from the books (since they couldn't bring two amnesiac characters back from the dead off the bat). Once CDPR decided to bring Yen herself back into the story she was given her original personality from the books back.

Also, sex =/= romance; deep, close relationship =/= romance. I wish people acknowledged that.

After just finishing the second book, this is exactly my feeling as well. TW1 doesn't really have Triss at all. Kind of a botched job by the devs, but at least they fixed it in TW2.  

[Chromie]

AllThatJazz wrote...
You first point: Er, sure? 

My first point being a woman can have sex and not be head over heels for someone. 

AllThatJazz wrote...
But why bring sex into the equation at all if the idea is to present Ves as a powerful woman who doesn't need to express herself through sex equal?

The same reason Bioware does with Isabella.

Modifié par Skelter192, 04 novembre 2012 - 07:32 .

[Urgon]

mousestalker wrote...

Mr. Avellone's statement was a disappointment. Were I aware of his sentiments regarding romance prior to the Kickstarter campaign, I would have made certain decisions differently.

Romance is not only part of life, it's an adventure. Part of the reason we are all here are the mysterious workings of romance in our ancestors' lives.

The net result is that I am likely to not buy the game at release and may never buy. Despite coming out on Linux, which is wicked cool, it doesn't sound like much more than a smash 'n bash.

Have you played a game by Avellone? All of them have excellent stories and deeper conpanions than Bioware's games. You just can't ***** them

Modifié par Urgon, 04 novembre 2012 - 07:31 .

[AllThatJazz]

Skelter192 wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
You first point: Er, sure? 

My first point being a woman can have sex and not be head over heels for someone. 

AllThatJazz wrote...
But why bring sex into the equation at all if the idea is to present Ves as a powerful woman who doesn't need to express herself through sex equal?

The same reason Bioware does with Isabella.

Okay, I'm not saying Bioware doesn't do it at all, and I'm not saying that every woman who has sex wants to marry and have kids with the guy. Where are you getting that I am saying either of these things?

My point with Ves is that if, as Slimgrin said, she has 'something to prove', that something being that she is 'no man's plaything', then why demonstrate that by being, essentially, a bit of a plaything, but only as long as the guy beats her up first? It seems an unnecessary contradiction to an otherwise very enjoyable character. Isabela is a tart with a heart, likes having lots of sex, I don't recall there being anything in particular to prove. I see no correlation there.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 04 novembre 2012 - 07:43 .

[TheChris92]

The way I see perceive romances is that they are a neat feature to an otherwise very enjoyable game on its own. They work in BioWare games, and I respect Chris Avellone not being able to cope with them, which is fine. I enjoyed Kotor 2 regardless, the romances don't have to make the game. It feels as if some people on the forums are scared that BioWare will solely be focusing on that aspect, simply because the feature has a large vocal fanbase "on these very forums". I do, however, not think that's the case. There are certainly many people here who are interested in the romance aspect, but there are also people who are obsessed with other parts of the games both in and outside the forums. They are not focusing all manpower on the issue that makes its voice heard through a couple of threads

Modifié par TheChris92, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Milan92]

You know, your not forced to read all these threads you know? Its not like someone is pushing you to move your mouse to the thread and click on it.

And who the freck is Chris Avellone?

Modifié par Milan92, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:37 .

[TheChris92]

Yes, there are a lot of people who talk of romances, so they decided to make a place where they can discuss them, just like there is a place for those who want to discuss the story and other aspects. It's part of BioWare games, but that doesn't make it essential to the game's overall enjoyment/quality. I don't believe that BioWare will shift their focus unto one aspect alone, as there are a lot of people both inside and outside the forums too who talk of other things within their games.

[Chromie]

Milan92 wrote...
And who the freck is Chris Avellone?

This makes me a little sad. He has worked on some of the best rpgs ever.

Modifié par Skelter192, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[AllThatJazz]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

^ True, but the fact that there's a whole subforum dedicated to romances already says enough.

It's characters, companions and romance, not just romance. And there are subforums dedicated to Gameplay, strategy, builds, fan creations, toolset, multiplayer and story. So yeah, it's certainly true that romance has a vocal fanbase within the BSN, but so do other elements of the game

Milan: Chris Avellone is an Obsidian and former Black Isle writer who wrote Planescape: Torment. He has also written varying amounts of Mask of the Betrayer, Knights of the Old Republic 2, Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas (I think), the Icewind Dale games and will be leading the writing on Project Eternity. He really is a fantastic writer, but one who has always been decidedly uncomfortable with writing romances. He seems far happier in weird/quirky/philosophical territory which is fine, since that's where he really excels

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 04 novembre 2012 - 08:47 .

[Masha Potato]

Milan92 wrote...

And who the freck is Chris Avellone?

Is that supposed to be a smart comment i can never tell

[Milan92]

Skelter192 wrote...

Milan92 wrote...
And who the freck is Chris Avellone?

This makes me a little sad. He has worked on some of the best rpgs ever.

Excuse me for having a life outside of RPG's and all those things 

[Kathleen321]

Fallout NV had brilliant story without romance. It can be done.

[Masha Potato]

Milan92 wrote...

Excuse me for having a life outside of RPG's and all those things 

What are you doing here then?

Also fun fact, googling any given person takes less than 5 minutes of your precious real life

But of course it's much more fun to go and make an obnoxious post just to show us how little you care. I'm sure every fan of Avellone's writing is bummed about this

[Milan92]

Because I don't know every dev out there makes me care little? If you say so.

[slimgrin]

Milan92 wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Milan92 wrote...
And who the freck is Chris Avellone?

This makes me a little sad. He has worked on some of the best rpgs ever.

Excuse me for having a life outside of RPG's and all those things 

Oh, the 'you're a nerd and I'm cool' retort. Lol. Goes well with your avatar.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 novembre 2012 - 09:04 .

[Milan92]

slimgrin wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Milan92 wrote...
And who the freck is Chris Avellone?

This makes me a little sad. He has worked on some of the best rpgs ever.

Excuse me for having a life outside of RPG's and all those things 

Oh, the 'you're a nerd and I'm cool retort'. Lol. Goes well with your avatar.

Uhm.....yeah sure. I don't recall calling sombody a nerd and I never said I was cool. If I wanted to say that then I would have done so. I'm just very baffled by all the responses I get for simply asking who Chris Avellone is.

Modifié par Milan92, 04 novembre 2012 - 09:11 .

[FeralEwok]

This guy is a real romantic...

Most romances I've seen in games are not that great. What I end up seeing in most of them is wish fullfillment, and very basic concepts of what relationships are. Then again the same could be said for most romances I've seen in movies, books, and theatre. Typically the hero gets the girl at the end as icing on the cake. "You're a girl? I'm a boy. We're both good looking...we're now in love"

It's not to say that romance doesn't belong in a game. I think if a writer or team is perceptive enough, the actors are believeble, and you have a director or producer that is willing to give it time to develop properly, then you could have a great romance. Normally though one or all of those factors are missing, and we get stuck with what we see.