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I really hate Alistair (Spoilers)


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#1
ckriley

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I just completed my third playthrough, and I was trying to be as good to Alistair as possible.  I was playing a male character so obviously no romance option available, but I was trying to be a really good friend to him, and a reliable ally.

The problem is, he's such a bumbling idiot.  Not to mention he's horrible in combat as well.  And I had him in really good gear, too.  I actually had rolled a tank, so Alistair's role was somewhat diminished, and I didn't bother to respec him as DPS.  That part was on me.  But in previous playthroughs where I played a DPS role and him as a tank, it was just awful.  Not only could he not hold aggro (even when setting his tactics to generate as much threat as possible, and putting him in massive armor)  but he couldn't take too many hits.  He would just be a constant drain on poor Wynne's mana.  And the DPS would have to blow all their CDs to burn targets down as fast as possible because our healer would be OOM and out of potions.  It was really, really, stupid.  Some people speak highly of Alistair's tanking ability, but I found Shale to be a much better choice, short of just rolling a tank yourself.  Hell, the dog out tanks Alistair.  I'm very serious.

Game mechanics aside, Alistair just fails as a character, too.  He has no confidence, a low self esteem, and is just generally annoying.  Everything he says just grates on my nerves.  I was trying to be nice to him, I really was!  But it was SO HARD.  The icing on the cake for me and the tell tale sign of Alistair's serious immaturity is what happens at the Landsmeet when you confront Loghain.

I did everything in my power to come to a peaceful resolution.  I talked both Anora and Alistair into marrying each other in an effort to unite Ferelden and come to a compromise that would leave Anora in power as the rightful queen, and also ensure that Theiren (sp) blood would be back on the throne with Alistair as king.  Even Eamon was schocked at this development.

And then, after defeating Loghain, I thought it was pointless to have to kill such a great and famed general as he.  Riordan was like, "No, we need all the Grey Wardens we can get.  And this guy owns!"  Plus, just from a practical point of view, how the hell could I possibly kill Anora's father right in front of her and then expect her to marry Alistair?  This was one instance where I agreed with Anora.  Let Loghaine go through the Joining, and if he survives, we have ourselves one HELL of a new Grey Warden (plus it's poetic justice - make Loghain what he despised the most, the irony of that...), and if he dies, we have our revenge.  I was totally cool with that.

But what does Alistair do?  He throws a complete tantrum.  His personal emotions cloud his reason and I had to freaking choose between him or Loghain.  So freaking retarded.   And because I decided before this playthrough that this was going to be "Alistair's game", I chose to kill Loghain to keep him, thereby losing Anora's support and having the planned marriage completely fall apart.  I was so angry.

I mean, he's just so immature.  That one moment said all you need to know about what kind of man Alistair is.  He's a child.  A spoiled little brat that I hate with the burning passion of a thousand suns. So poorly designed and written as a character.

As for supporting Harrowmont over Bhelen in Orzammar, this completely, totally, and utterly dooms the dwarves to absolute ruin.  When you choose Bhelen, he actually turns out to be a very progressive king.  He dissolves the caste system. opens up trade with the surface, doesn't seem to mind the Chantry, and moves Orzammar into the future.

What happens when you support Harrowmont?  The so-called "good guys" choice?  Even more restrictions on the caste system are put in place.  Orzammar becomes more isolated than any other time in history.   Brother Burkel (sp) is killed and the Chantry considers a new Exalted March to force conversion, etc.  It's just awful.  Exasperating the situation is the fact that I chose to help Branka instead of Caradin, which actually causes a small war between Orzammar and Fereldan because Branka starts to abduct surfacers for new golems.

So, when compared to all the other options in the game, like supporting Anora as queen and putting Bhelen on the throne in Orzammar, this just confirms that article in Gamasutra about the moral compass in DAO pointing south.  The comparisons aren't even close.

 

Modifié par ckriley, 02 janvier 2010 - 11:17 .


#2
eschilde

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I don't think Harrowmont was the "good guy's" choice. Given the setup of Orzammar, unless you're playing a casteless dwarf, it's a choice of the lesser of two evils, and you have to pick before you know anything besides gossip.



There's plenty of Alistair love/hate threads, but I'll just say, if you're having a problem with his tanking, you're not building him correctly. There's plenty on that in the gameplay forum, but in essence: 42 str to wear the best armor, and the rest in dex to avoid getting hit, or at least that seems to work for me.

#3
tmp7704

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ckriley wrote...

Hell, the dog out tanks Alistair.  I'm very serious. 

I think you're very dramatic here. Can't quite imagine how exactly the dog is supposed to work better as tank with half or less of the armour (and dog's armour is seen as "lack" of armour if anything, so the enemies don't focus on him on their own) no threat abilities and much lower resistances to spells, physical abilities and the damage types.

#4
NinjaWJ

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Hmm i think part of Alistairs personality comes form him maybe getting abused as a child? I dont know but apparently he had a rough childhood so i think that caused his emotional state

#5
Namirsolo

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Shale is really a much better thank than Alistair, I agree.

#6
Squiggles1334

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Next playthrough when you meet Goldanna, tell Alistair that everyone's just looking out for themselves and that it's a lesson he should learn. See if the Landsmeet plays out any differently when you try to spare Loghain.

#7
AtreiyaN7

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Oh hey, so is this the ten millionth thread whining about Alistair's tanking/personality? Getting into that issue is pointless - if you fail to understand his background or want to ignore it, then you can keep viewing him the way that you do, although properly spec'ed he's a good tank. Throw in some Champion & Templar abilities and it goes quite nicely (for me anyway) - that and actually setting up his tactics. As for the other things, you're missing something really obvious - the whole point of the choice between Bhelen and Harrowmont is that things don't always work out the way you expect - kind of like real life.

#8
Arvid.Drak

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Yea.. these "I hate Alistair" or in this case "I REALLY hate Alistair" or "I hate (insert any other character here)" threads are getting kinda silly. You don't like em? K. Go side with Loghain or don't use him or whatever.. if you hate his/her/it very presence in the game mod him/her/it out or just put the game down. This is retarded.

#9
friedsashimi

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I haven't actually played through as a dwarf noble, but I'm pretty sure that if you're a dwarf noble and you make Harrowmont king (which is probably the most natural thing to do), he designates you as his heir AND you're made a Paragon, so in that case, Orzammar is not doomed.

#10
Eruanna Guerrein

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Go read the hundred other threads about Alistair to get some insight. You aren't alone in your hatred of a fictional character but it seems you are in the minority. Maybe you'll see something that helps relate to him.



And learn how to spec a tank if you want a good tank.



Yeah, it sucks to learn that while it seemed Harrowmount was the best choice, he probably wasn't but Bioware is known for forcing the tough choices and making you live with the consequences. Oh wait... that's kinda how real life goes, huh?

#11
Cybercat999

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Yeah, learn how to spec/equip a tank. My Alistair is doing just fine.



As far as his personality goes I dont like him at all but do we really need another Alistair thread in forum filled with Alistair threads, no matter if its swooning or spitting over him. Maybe someone should merge all those threads into 2 - "I hate A* and "I love A*.

Ok I am grumpy today but really...

#12
ckriley

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To all you saying I need to learn how to spec and gear a tank, you obviously missed the whole part of my post where I clearly said I was a tank myself and wasn't having any problems whatsoever. You also seemed to have failed to notice the part about me thinking Shale was a much better choice. Then you failed to notice how I said even after making sure I had Alistair in good gear with good tanking tactics set, I still found him lacking. Plus, I think you also failed to notice I said this was my third playthrough.



That's an awful lot of fail.



.

#13
Eruanna Guerrein

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Ah, but you are failing to realize that Alistair is a kick ass tank for 99% of the other DA:O players. I'd say odds are that it's your speccing at fault, like it or not.

#14
twintalons

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I can't really disagree with any of your reasons for hating Alistair, but I don't think that makes him a badly written character. To me if everyone said 'bleh I don't really have any opinion on Alistair' THAT would make him a badly written character.

And on the Harrowmount thing, I don't think there ARE any 'good guys' in the dwarven political system. Did you play as a dwarven noble yet?

#15
Cybercat999

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ckriley wrote...

To all you saying I need to learn how to spec and gear a tank, you obviously missed the whole part of my post where I clearly said I was a tank myself and wasn't having any problems whatsoever. You also seemed to have failed to notice the part about me thinking Shale was a much better choice. Then you failed to notice how I said even after making sure I had Alistair in good gear with good tanking tactics set, I still found him lacking. Plus, I think you also failed to notice I said this was my third playthrough.

That's an awful lot of fail.

.


I fail to see how can you make good tank out of one character and fail on another one.
You can think Shale is better, I can think Alistair is better, its not matter of success or failure but different opinions and different playstyles.

This is my 11th playthrough so whats your point?

Modifié par Cybercat999, 02 janvier 2010 - 09:50 .


#16
Stuffy38

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I won't comment on Alistair. The stunty king though - fist run through I chose Harrowmont and every subsequent playthrough I have chosen Bhelen as king of the midgets. Not because he is a more likeable character, but because the word on the street in Orzammar is that he'll actually get up off his arse and do something rather than just haggle or negotiate. He says it himself, it is a time for action not words.

You get some interesting dialogue when you support him after having started as a Dwarf Noble too, it's worth doing.

#17
robertthebard

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Yeah, Alistair is tanking the hell out of that camp fire in camp in this play through. Alistair is the most consistent NPC in the game, he starts out a whiner, and just keeps going. I really love being able to tell him to get over himself at Flemeth's hut, and striking out into the Wilds with someone that may well have an agenda, but won't spend the entire game crying about Duncan being dead.



I love the line coming into Lothering; "Is it so hard to understand my being upset? How would you feel if somebody close to you died?" to which the Human Noble can't say; "Gee, I don't know, it's not like your hero daddy didn't blackmail my dying father into making me a GW in order to save me from Howe, and then drag me off knowing my mother is going to die right beside him. It's not like I didn't walk into my brother's room, and see his wife and son dead on the floor". For all the detractors, Alistair and Cailin weren't close.



I also love that Morrigan is an evil **** for lying to you about her goals, and leaving when she doesn't get to have her baby, but Alistair is the hero of the day for lying to you about who he is, even if you ask him directly in camp, and leaving when he doesn't get his way, despite being a Grey Warden, and harping on and on about how much he loves being a Warden. At least Morrigan, and Sten, are in a hurry to stop the Archdemon, while Alistair is in a hurry to keep his little secret.



My current Dwarf Noble play will support Bhelen. He played me into killing Trian brilliantly, and can't help but be a good King because of his awareness of how the game is played, and being a master at it.

#18
a1021

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harrowmont and bhelen are both bad kings. bhelen dissolves the assembly, the last little bit of democracy in orzammar. he is practically a dictator, no matter how many other reforms he makes... in my first playthrough i really hoped that i could just make branka the queen. it's unfortunate that you can't...

#19
robertthebard

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Bhelen == bad for dissolving the Assembly, but Branka is a good choice, after she had her entire house turned into darkspawn to try and get the Anvil, and if you let her live, and put Harrowmont on the throne, she raids the surface for victims to make more golems. So if you make her queen she'll what, turn all the dwarves into golems first?

#20
Kleon

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Such whining about Alistairs whining...



This is how character is supposed to be.

In real life you don't like everyone, there will be people you'll like and people you wont like.



Choice between Harrowmont and Bhelen and its consequences...

Outcome of decision is pretty much logical.

#21
bas273

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Lots of people are complaining about Alistair's whining. I wonder how many of them have hardened him and listened to all the dialogues while romancing him. He has been through a lot.

The Landsmeet was a moment of weakness, being a Grey Warden should be more important than his personal feelings (vengeance). But this is not 'bad writing', it's realism. I'm willing to forgive him because he has such a strong personality.

#22
robertthebard

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Yep, and in real life, when somebody is that much of a whiner, I can kick them to the curb. Can't do that with Alistair, he still has to breathe my air in camp.
  • SherryGold aime ceci

#23
Finiffa

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Cybercat999 wrote...

Yeah, learn how to spec/equip a tank. My Alistair is doing just fine.

As far as his personality goes I dont like him at all but do we really need another Alistair thread in forum filled with Alistair threads, no matter if its swooning or spitting over him. Maybe someone should merge all those threads into 2 - "I hate A* and "I love A*.
Ok I am grumpy today but really...

I am grumpy too and fully agree. Please not another 40 page thread on Alistair and the Landsmeet, Alistair whines too much etc, the poor horse has been beaten to death by now Posted Image. Lets just agree to disagree.

And he is the best tank in game whatever you feel about him.

#24
robertthebard

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Finiffa wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

Yeah, learn how to spec/equip a tank. My Alistair is doing just fine.

As far as his personality goes I dont like him at all but do we really need another Alistair thread in forum filled with Alistair threads, no matter if its swooning or spitting over him. Maybe someone should merge all those threads into 2 - "I hate A* and "I love A*.
Ok I am grumpy today but really...

I am grumpy too and fully agree. Please not another 40 page thread on Alistair and the Landsmeet, Alistair whines too much etc, the poor horse has been beaten to death by now Posted Image. Lets just agree to disagree.

And he is the best tank in game whatever you feel about him.

Barring the PC actually rolling a tank, he's the only tank in game.  That's not really a winning argument, unless there were a couple of pre-spec'd sword and boarders around.  That's like saying Morrigan is the best shapeshifter in game, or that Leliana is the best bard...Posted Image

#25
Finiffa

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Shale is a good tank too, so no, he's certainly not the only tank in game.