555 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Thank you for proving my point.  There is no set rule book, so why not recruit Loghain?

IPerrin wrote...

   Riordan is the senior grey warden at
the landsmeet.  He decides that Loghain should join the wardens.  
Loghain is a ferelden hero.  Why do you continue insisting that these
are not "satisfactory answers" to "why Loghain?? 

Do I need to go over this AGAIN? Loghain is a dangerous, crazy man who's proven that his word means nothing, that's he capable and willing to kill pretty much anyone and a man who still has some power and suporters. He doesn't magicly stop being a danger just because he passes the Joining. His schizio. His sudden change of heart at the duel makes NO FRIGGIN SENSE.
Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?
There are plenty capable (and younger) men and women willing and able who would do just as fine.

But none who are in possession of the archdemon blood.

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...
How does he not know?  That's a tissue paper weak argument.  Regarding oaths, isn't it convenient that in this discussion, in all it's permutations, you don't see one, yet when it comes to Morrigan's ritual, you do?

That's not a weak argument, because he doesn't know. This is a fact confirmed in-game, since Rhiordan tells you about teh archdemon killing thing only after the Landsmeet.

And what are you talking about? What oath? The player never took any formal or informal oath. Neither did Daveth or Jory as far as I know.

[Ariella]

Cybercat999 wrote...

Ariella wrote...
Wow... Alistair was human rather than perfect like your PC. He has this terrible flaw we call "character", you know, having a back story, having quirks,  and flaws?


Thing is you say you hate Alistair, because what? He doesn't "man up", but you even bother to try and understand his reactions. It's possibole to dislike a characters flaws, fine. But you don't seem to be doing that. You seem to be basing your dislike on your expectations of what the character should have done regardless of his backstory or personality.

Are you saying we are obliged to like and understand Alistair because he has flaws? Interesting point of view.
Next time my husband calls me a cold selfish bish I am going to tell him he has to love my flaws because they make my "character".

Are you just so infatuated with his *whatever* that you cant understand that your cute "quirks" can be a very annoying deal breakers for somebody else?
He is what he is. You like him, I dislike him, even more so I despise him. Nothing you say can make me change my mind and I see no reason whatsoever to try and justify him, he is not worth the effort.

Thing is... Robert isn't even bothering to understand Alistair's character. He expects Alistair to do what HE would do, which doesn't take in to account anything about the character.

As for loving you for you flaws as well as your virtues... that's what love and marriage is about, better or worse... ring any bells.

If you don't like him, fine, but some of the REASONS I've seen for not liking Alistair have nothing to do with the character and have the fact that he's not some bot that does exactly what said person tell him.

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Thank you for proving my point.  There is no set rule book, so why not recruit Loghain?

IPerrin wrote...

   Riordan is the senior grey warden at
the landsmeet.  He decides that Loghain should join the wardens.  
Loghain is a ferelden hero.  Why do you continue insisting that these
are not "satisfactory answers" to "why Loghain?? 

Do I need to go over this AGAIN? Loghain is a dangerous, crazy man who's proven that his word means nothing, that's he capable and willing to kill pretty much anyone and a man who still has some power and suporters. He doesn't magicly stop being a danger just because he passes the Joining. His schizio. His sudden change of heart at the duel makes NO FRIGGIN SENSE.
Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?
There are plenty capable (and younger) men and women willing and able who would do just as fine.

To paraphrase Flemeth, you are largely irrelevent to the scheme of things.

[Lotion Soronarr]

IPerrin wrote...
   The exact same reasoning Duncan used on me.  Stopping the blight supercedes justice.

That's not an argument, that'sa belief. A belief that isnt' even necesssary.
I might go along and spare Loghain if his help was ESSENTIAL.

But since it isn't, I really dont' see why I should ignore justice, when following trought doesn't realyl affect my fight with the blight in a negative way.

Not to metion that "Duncan did it" is no argument for anything. Since when is everything Ducan does the right thing to do?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 06 janvier 2010 - 07:35 .

[Ariella]

robertthebard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Thank you for proving my point.  There is no set rule book, so why not recruit Loghain?

IPerrin wrote...

   Riordan is the senior grey warden at
the landsmeet.  He decides that Loghain should join the wardens.  
Loghain is a ferelden hero.  Why do you continue insisting that these
are not "satisfactory answers" to "why Loghain?? 

Do I need to go over this AGAIN? Loghain is a dangerous, crazy man who's proven that his word means nothing, that's he capable and willing to kill pretty much anyone and a man who still has some power and suporters. He doesn't magicly stop being a danger just because he passes the Joining. His schizio. His sudden change of heart at the duel makes NO FRIGGIN SENSE.
Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?
There are plenty capable (and younger) men and women willing and able who would do just as fine.

To paraphrase Flemeth, you are largely irrelevent to the scheme of things.

And what does that make you, robert? Where's Sir Robin when you need him?

[robertthebard]

Ariella wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Isn't he?  It would be consistent with his character.  However, he has no better view of the battle field than the PC, so if we say my referencing the cutscene of the battle is metagaming, what is Alistair doing?  I realize that you seem to think I'm arguing that Loghain is a good guy, but I'm really not.  However, as I have said, I like my facts to be just that, facts.  Any knowledge that Alistair would profess to have about the battle should be yours as well, you are both in the same place.

Oh what utter crap. Alistair keeps one thing from the PC, and he's a liar? Did you even bother to get to know the character?

Regarding the kid in the dungeon, he was not there.  His nursemaid's son was, with Loghain.  They could not see the battle field, which is something you'll readily admit to, so how could he have known the state of the battle?  Your case has more holes than swiss cheese.

Then why pray tell, was Oswyn catpured and tortured? Because he had first hand information and was in a position to bring it out thus was a threat.

So how does Alistair know we are winning?  Saying "Oh what utter crap" does not answer how somebody standing right beside you has a better view of the battlefield than you do.  It's nice that you have this great hero worship thing going on, but please do feel free to share where Alistair gleans knowledge that the PC can't about a battle that you are equidistant away from.  Isn't that like saying Anora knew full well what happened there from Denerim?
The boy in the dugeon tells you he is captured because he was asking questions about his childhood friend disappearing, not that he has any first hand knowledge.  By definition, any knowledge that he has about Ostagar will be second hand, since he did not observe the events himself.  Notice how I don't have to cook up anything to make a point, but can just use ingame events to support ingame events.

[eschilde]

Addai67 wrote...

eschilde wrote...

Loghain does not stand to gain as much by losing at Ostagar as he would by winning, if you assume he was acting with Orlais in mind.

I disagree.  IMO he calculated that a lose-lose at Ostagar was going to be the best outcome.  The darkspawn numbers are reduced + Cailan and the troops most loyal to him and the Wardens are decimated, leaving him and Anora in charge with no rivals to challenge them.

Not to complicate it, but just as an aside:  Don't think we can rule out that there wasn't personal malice against Cailan at play.  Loghain's guard indicates he and Cailan were arguing about the queen.  Reading between the lines, maybe about Cailan's infidelities?  Just a thought.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, BTW.  I enjoy discussing different points of view and am often surprised at how people see the same story events differently. 

I like to see other peoples' arguments as well. Personally, I like Alistair better than Loghain, so he usually dies, but I don't hate Loghain and I don't believe he went out of his way to get Cailin killed. 

Considering that Duncan and Alistair both guess the number of the darkspawn horde to be in the tens of thousands, I find it very difficult to believe that Loghain would opt for a lose-lose situation at Ostagar. Bryce Cousland says, if you ask him whether taking all the Cousland troops to Ostagar is a bad idea, that not taking them is distinctly worse, especially when ordered there by the king. That clearly isn't Cailin's idea (remember what he says to Duncan upon being told Eamon has offered troops) and why would Loghain ask for more troops if he didn't think he needed them? 

Ostagar is an important geographical defensive position; not winning there eventually causes the south to fall, because Loghain must retreat and reorganize an army. This is the ONLY possible outcome of losing at Ostagar, regardless of whether or not Cailin survives. The soldiers in Ostagar say, "We've won every battle, but there's more of them each time." Increasing enemy numbers, despite having won all the battles, is a very poor setup for purposely setting up a good portion of your troops to be killed.

Thing is the King told Loghain what he intended to do. He says so himself "the king told me of his promise to you."

But think for a minute, why would he allow Howe to do all his political manuvering if he hadn't recruited him in the first place to remove a rival in Bryce Cousland?

Howe's the kind of man to not put himself at risk unless he had ultimate assurances and backup plans. 

Yes, Loghain knew about the Couslands. This is not a point I am disputing. My point is, he has no incentive to pursue justice for the Couslands, because what military power he would have gotten from them is gone due to the combined effects of the Ostagar loss and Howe's actions at Highever. (Edit: and whatever political gain he might have gotten from clearing the Couslands name is zilch compared to what he could get out of a living Howe.)

Howe does not have to have been conspiring with Loghain before Ostagar to work with him after. Loghain is a respected general, but obviously cannot get all the bannorn to swear to his banner, as evidenced in the first Denerim cut scene. Howe was a noble who had influence and ambition, which Loghain was in a position to reward after Ostagar. He did not have to like Howe, he just had to give Howe what he wanted in return for services provided.

Howe had no perceived risk in attacking the Couslands. He intended to have the entire family killed and no one to dispute his branding them traitors. Loghain may know the truth, but, as I said, he has zero incentive to clear the name of a dead family.

Modifié par eschilde, 06 janvier 2010 - 07:44 .

[robertthebard]

Ariella wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Thank you for proving my point.  There is no set rule book, so why not recruit Loghain?

IPerrin wrote...

   Riordan is the senior grey warden at
the landsmeet.  He decides that Loghain should join the wardens.  
Loghain is a ferelden hero.  Why do you continue insisting that these
are not "satisfactory answers" to "why Loghain?? 

Do I need to go over this AGAIN? Loghain is a dangerous, crazy man who's proven that his word means nothing, that's he capable and willing to kill pretty much anyone and a man who still has some power and suporters. He doesn't magicly stop being a danger just because he passes the Joining. His schizio. His sudden change of heart at the duel makes NO FRIGGIN SENSE.
Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?
There are plenty capable (and younger) men and women willing and able who would do just as fine.

To paraphrase Flemeth, you are largely irrelevent to the scheme of things.

And what does that make you, robert? Where's Sir Robin when you need him?

Lol, do you really expect me to feel bad about you defending Lotion?  You both are quite guilty of ignoring facts presented in game to say you can tell us how we should play the game.  For all I know, you're related.

[IPerrin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IPerrin wrote...
   The exact same reasoning Duncan used on me.  Stopping the blight supercedes justice.

That's not an argument, that'sa belief. A belief that isnt' even necesssary.
I might go along and spare Loghain if his help was ESSENTIAL.

But since it isn't, I really dont' see why I should ignore justice, when following trought doesn't realyl affect my fight with the blight in a negative way.

  I was just answering YOUR question of "why Loghain" I'm not trying to tell you you have to agree with the valid reasons to spare Loghain's life, you're who seems to be trying to imply that my reasons are invalid.  Loghain is a ferelden hero.  Perhaps my PC is as desprate for help as duncan was.  Perhaps my PC thinks himself too Righteous to kill someone who has submitted.  I've still said more often than not I've killed Loghain.. that does not make these reasons less valid.

[Lotion Soronarr]

WORD OF GOD (David Gaider) - Loghain was planing his trechery before Ostagar. There's your proof right there, from the horses mouth. Is there really any point in discussing this further?

[Ariella]

[quote]robertthebard wrote...

[quote]Ariella wrote...

[quote]robertthebard wrote...

Isn't he?  It would be consistent with his character.  However, he has no better view of the battle field than the PC, so if we say my referencing the cutscene of the battle is metagaming, what is Alistair doing?  I realize that you seem to think I'm arguing that Loghain is a good guy, but I'm really not.  However, as I have said, I like my facts to be just that, facts.  Any knowledge that Alistair would profess to have about the battle should be yours as well, you are both in the same place.
[/quote]

Oh what utter crap. Alistair keeps one thing from the PC, and he's a liar? Did you even bother to get to know the character?

[quote]



Regarding the kid in the dungeon, he was not there.  His nursemaid's son was, with Loghain.  They could not see the battle field, which is something you'll readily admit to, so how could he have known the state of the battle?  Your case has more holes than swiss cheese.[/quote]

Then why pray tell, was Oswyn catpured and tortured? Because he had first hand information and was in a position to bring it out thus was a threat.[/quote]
So how does Alistair know we are winning?  Saying "Oh what utter crap" does not answer how somebody standing right beside you has a better view of the battlefield than you do.  It's nice that you have this great hero worship thing going on, but please do feel free to share where Alistair gleans knowledge that the PC can't about a battle that you are equidistant away from.  Isn't that like saying Anora knew full well what happened there from Denerim?
[/quote]

I'm saying what utter crap to your accusation that being a liar is in Alistair's character. Notice you didn't address that. Considering we don't see what happens in that room from the moments the beaon is lit till the darkspawn come in, there is a possiblity that Alistair did peek outside. There's no reason to disbelieve him,other than that you don't like him.

[/quote]
The boy in the dugeon tells you he is captured because he was asking questions about his childhood friend disappearing, not that he has any first hand knowledge.  By definition, any knowledge that he has about Ostagar will be second hand, since he did not observe the events himself.  Notice how I don't have to cook up anything to make a point, but can just use ingame events to support ingame events.[/quote]

Actually, what he says is that his friend TOLD him, when said friend came back from Ostagar, that the troops were pulled out BEFORE the king was overwhelmed. And when said friend disappeared, he started asking questions. So there's one witness that has a noble's credibilty to back him up. Big problem for Howe and Loghain. So Oswyn had to disappear as well. No need to make anything up.

[IPerrin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IPerrin wrote...
   The exact same reasoning Duncan used on me.  Stopping the blight supercedes justice.

That's not an argument, that'sa belief. A belief that isnt' even necesssary.
I might go along and spare Loghain if his help was ESSENTIAL.

But since it isn't, I really dont' see why I should ignore justice, when following trought doesn't realyl affect my fight with the blight in a negative way.

Not to metion that "Duncan did it" is no argument for anything. Since when is everything Ducan does the right thing to do?

  I've never said that duncan did everything right, but his style may have been the sort needed to stop the blight

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?

I know I said I was finished with this topic but i came in to look and had to laugh at once again another pathetic comment from Lotion *golfclap*

"Men and women from every race, warriors and mages, barbarians and
kings... the Grey Wardens sacrificed everything to stem the tide of
darkness... and prevailed."

Please tell me where in this statement (taken from the official dragon age page about grey wardens), does it state anything else is needed?

It doesn't, right, just as both Duncan and Riordan tell the PC that anyone from any social standing can be recruited if they are proven to be good at what they do. Considering Loghains past before the paranoia took over, I think he has more than earned his spot, specially seeing as his values match that of the Wardens.

In war victory - Orlesians defeated
In peace, vigilance - Kept an eye on them
In death, sacrifice - Loghain would rightfully die for his country

[Lotion Soronarr]

ejoslin wrote...
But none who are in possession of the archdemon blood.

Your point? If you have enough archdemon blood to make Loghain a Grey Warden, then you make enough to make someone else insted of him.
Loghain has the blood? Take it from his bloody corpse? Or if he doesn't have it on his person, let tortures extract that information.

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...
Lol, do you really expect me to feel bad about you defending Lotion?  You both are quite guilty of ignoring facts presented in game to say you can tell us how we should play the game.  For all I know, you're related.

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Ariella]

robertthebard wrote...

Ariella wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Thank you for proving my point.  There is no set rule book, so why not recruit Loghain?

IPerrin wrote...

   Riordan is the senior grey warden at
the landsmeet.  He decides that Loghain should join the wardens.  
Loghain is a ferelden hero.  Why do you continue insisting that these
are not "satisfactory answers" to "why Loghain?? 

Do I need to go over this AGAIN? Loghain is a dangerous, crazy man who's proven that his word means nothing, that's he capable and willing to kill pretty much anyone and a man who still has some power and suporters. He doesn't magicly stop being a danger just because he passes the Joining. His schizio. His sudden change of heart at the duel makes NO FRIGGIN SENSE.
Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?
There are plenty capable (and younger) men and women willing and able who would do just as fine.

To paraphrase Flemeth, you are largely irrelevent to the scheme of things.

And what does that make you, robert? Where's Sir Robin when you need him?

Lol, do you really expect me to feel bad about you defending Lotion?  You both are quite guilty of ignoring facts presented in game to say you can tell us how we should play the game.  For all I know, you're related.

Transference much, Robert?

And you should be careful about assumptions if I were you.

[eschilde]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

WORD OF GOD (David Gaider) - Loghain was planing his trechery before Ostagar. There's your proof right there, from the horses mouth. Is there really any point in discussing this further?

Link?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?

I know I said I was finished with this topic but i came in to look and had to laugh at once again another pathetic comment from Lotion *golfclap*

Yes, thank you for not providing anything to counter that statement. You still didn't answer why him if you can choose others?

[Ariella]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

In war victory - Orlesians defeated
In peace, vigilance - Kept an eye on them
In death, sacrifice - Loghain would rightfully die for his country

Thing is, Orlesians are not the enemy,and Loghain doesn't see the real threat until he's literally had his head kicked in personally by a Grey Warden at least once.

Edit: And by that time it's almost to late.

Modifié par Ariella, 06 janvier 2010 - 07:51 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aside from being a great fighter, is there any reason to make him a GW?

I know I said I was finished with this topic but i came in to look and had to laugh at once again another pathetic comment from Lotion *golfclap*

Yes, thank you for not providing anything to counter that statement. You still didn't answer why him if you can choose others?

Sorry would you like me to come to your house and say it to you seeing as you are obviously blind.

Also your question was what reason there was to make him a GW not why make him above anyone else, so seriously before you try retorting with such utter nonsense think about what you originally wrote.

why him above anyone else, anyone else in the landsmeet, hmm, who can I conscript, one of my party members, maybe. But depends on my party members doesn't it and how well I know them and whether they would do it.

Morrigan - well we know the answer she would give is a definite no
Sten - I think his answer would be "NO!"
Wynne - She's already on borrowed time and am sure if she really had wanted to be a Warden already she would have been
Oghren - ...no
Leliana - Maaaybe, who knows
Zevran - Doubtful
Loghain - Definitly considering the situation

So yeah, I think I would choose Loghain above the others if I was given the choice.

Difference between me and you, I ain't stating everyone should do it, am just trying to state that the bunch of you that are stating anyone whom does spare him are bad really do need a wake up call.

Edit: @Ariella
Now who is the one misinterpreting what is said?

Think of this logically for a moment if you can? (though I doubt it from the way you have posted today)

If he can have that mindset for the Orlesians then he can have that same mindset for the Darkspawn if he is made a Warden.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .

[Cybercat999]

Ariella wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

Ariella wrote...
Wow... Alistair was human rather than perfect like your PC. He has this terrible flaw we call "character", you know, having a back story, having quirks,  and flaws?


Thing is you say you hate Alistair, because what? He doesn't "man up", but you even bother to try and understand his reactions. It's possibole to dislike a characters flaws, fine. But you don't seem to be doing that. You seem to be basing your dislike on your expectations of what the character should have done regardless of his backstory or personality.

Are you saying we are obliged to like and understand Alistair because he has flaws? Interesting point of view.
Next time my husband calls me a cold selfish bish I am going to tell him he has to love my flaws because they make my "character".

Are you just so infatuated with his *whatever* that you cant understand that your cute "quirks" can be a very annoying deal breakers for somebody else?
He is what he is. You like him, I dislike him, even more so I despise him. Nothing you say can make me change my mind and I see no reason whatsoever to try and justify him, he is not worth the effort.

Thing is... Robert isn't even bothering to understand Alistair's character. He expects Alistair to do what HE would do, which doesn't take in to account anything about the character.

As for loving you for you flaws as well as your virtues... that's what love and marriage is about, better or worse... ring any bells.

If you don't like him, fine, but some of the REASONS I've seen for not liking Alistair have nothing to do with the character and have the fact that he's not some bot that does exactly what said person tell him.

Ah yes, people get married and they live happy ever after... they never try to change their spouse, they never get irritated with flaws, they never divorce. I wonder what version of real life you have cause mine is sure a different one.

I see nothing wrong with Robert not trying to understand Alistair. He probably projects whatever he thinks a man should be on virtual character and that is his damn right. Why does somebody have to give you 3 pages of reasons for not liking a NPC? I dont like his left eyebrow - there is your reason, though I dont see why should I give you one anyway.

Who are you to tell me I am not allowed to write "I hate Alistair because I hate Alistair" in this thread? Seriously, you give yourself too much credit.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 06 janvier 2010 - 07:58 .

[robertthebard]

[quote]Ariella wrote...

[quote]robertthebard wrote...

[quote]Ariella wrote...

[quote]robertthebard wrote...

Isn't he?  It would be consistent with his character.  However, he has no better view of the battle field than the PC, so if we say my referencing the cutscene of the battle is metagaming, what is Alistair doing?  I realize that you seem to think I'm arguing that Loghain is a good guy, but I'm really not.  However, as I have said, I like my facts to be just that, facts.  Any knowledge that Alistair would profess to have about the battle should be yours as well, you are both in the same place.
[/quote]

Oh what utter crap. Alistair keeps one thing from the PC, and he's a liar? Did you even bother to get to know the character?

[quote]



Regarding the kid in the dungeon, he was not there.  His nursemaid's son was, with Loghain.  They could not see the battle field, which is something you'll readily admit to, so how could he have known the state of the battle?  Your case has more holes than swiss cheese.[/quote]

Then why pray tell, was Oswyn catpured and tortured? Because he had first hand information and was in a position to bring it out thus was a threat.[/quote]
So how does Alistair know we are winning?  Saying "Oh what utter crap" does not answer how somebody standing right beside you has a better view of the battlefield than you do.  It's nice that you have this great hero worship thing going on, but please do feel free to share where Alistair gleans knowledge that the PC can't about a battle that you are equidistant away from.  Isn't that like saying Anora knew full well what happened there from Denerim?
[/quote]

I'm saying what utter crap to your accusation that being a liar is in Alistair's character. Notice you didn't address that. Considering we don't see what happens in that room from the moments the beaon is lit till the darkspawn come in, there is a possiblity that Alistair did peek outside. There's no reason to disbelieve him,other than that you don't like him.

[/quote]
The boy in the dugeon tells you he is captured because he was asking questions about his childhood friend disappearing, not that he has any first hand knowledge.  By definition, any knowledge that he has about Ostagar will be second hand, since he did not observe the events himself.  Notice how I don't have to cook up anything to make a point, but can just use ingame events to support ingame events.[/quote]

Actually, what he says is that his friend TOLD him, when said friend came back from Ostagar, that the troops were pulled out BEFORE the king was overwhelmed. And when said friend disappeared, he started asking questions. So there's one witness that has a noble's credibilty to back him up. Big problem for Howe and Loghain. So Oswyn had to disappear as well. No need to make anything up.

[/quote]
Ok, so, you witness an event.  This is first hand knowledge.  You tell me about the event, it's now second hand knowledge, as I did not witness the events.

Now, to dispel the "You don't know Alistair's character" thing you seem to be obssessed with.  I'm running along in my second play through, role playing my infatuated little City Elf that's romancing Alistair.  In camp discussion, we talk about his childhood, how Eamon raised him, this is, of course after we through the raised by flying dogs thing, and he says that Eamon raised him.  He didn't have to, but he did.  Now, as City Elf, I ask, isn't it odd for an Arl to raise a bastard?  This is, of course, setting off my "What's up with that" alarm, since nobles don't take kids off the street to raise, even if they put them in the barn.  He claims that Eamon truly isn't his father, and yet, when you ask who is, he lies outright.  Compound this with his lie of omission about who his father is.

Then, going to Redcliffe to chase down Dwyn for Sten's sword, I trigger the Redcliffe quest.  Well crap, I didn't have Alistair with me, so no come clean cutscene.  Anyway, I get stuck doing Redcliffe, and saving the Arl, only to find out, surprise, Alistair is the heir to the throne.  In camp, he talks about being sorry, he should have spoken up sooner, he was afraid people would look at him different, that they might try to make him be king, etc etc ad nauseum.  I go with the "I don't know who you are" line, because I'm playing my character.  He then throws a fit, and forces things around so that I have to apologize to him for him lying to me the whole time he's known me.  So, I'm still trying to cling to the infatuated City Elf and apologize, and he is a total ass about it, to the point that the writers included, "Or you could just be an ass about it".  Bang, -15 approval, relationship ended.  All because Alistair couldn't admit who he was.  Of course, I just roleplayed the rebound ho, and got Zev, and then rekindled the romance with Leliana that I had shut down for Alistair's sake.  So yeah, I think I know Alistair's character pretty damned well.  Probably better than you do.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...


In war victory - Orlesians defeated
In peace, vigilance - Kept an eye on them
In death, sacrifice - Loghain would rightfully die for his country

Speaking of the Warden creed... I've yet to get that in game dialogue. Does it ever come up?

[eschilde]

Now, to dispel the "You don't know Alistair's character" thing you seem to be obssessed with. I'm running along in my second play through, role playing my infatuated little City Elf that's romancing Alistair. In camp discussion, we talk about his childhood, how Eamon raised him, this is, of course after we through the raised by flying dogs thing, and he says that Eamon raised him. He didn't have to, but he did. Now, as City Elf, I ask, isn't it odd for an Arl to raise a bastard? This is, of course, setting off my "What's up with that" alarm, since nobles don't take kids off the street to raise, even if they put them in the barn. He claims that Eamon truly isn't his father, and yet, when you ask who is, he lies outright. Compound this with his lie of omission about who his father is.

I'm fairly sure Alistair says, "I know who I was told was my father," and adds that it was not Eamon. He never lies, he just doesn't straight up tell you. Whether that was wrong is debatable. It was irresponsible on his part not to come out and tell you, but I don't believe it put you in more danger than you were already in, and it's not a straight up lie.