555 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
The fun part of that is going to be the part where "the voice of God" says that about half way through the game, Loghain had already begun to see that he was wrong, but that his die was already cast.  At that point he has to play the hand he's dealt, and it sucks to be him.  However, it does clear up the "sudden conversion" at the Landsmeet.  He's playing his cards the best he can, until he's beaten, and knows it's time to get down to business.  Just a random interpretation of the events, but one that certainly makes sense considering "the word of God".

You misunderstand. Him relising killing Cailan and half the army at Ostagar made sense - he was faced with the disastrous consequences of it.
What doesn't make sense is that he goes from "The PC is a orlesian spy and Al is jsut a puppet! You are enemeis of Ferelden" to "You're a good man for Ferelden." in a space of a singel duel.

He was ready to kill off the Landsmeet even if it voted agasint him, just to keep you and Al from getting power. What kind of insigt could he possibly gotten out of the duel? Sicne when does being bested in combat prove that the Pc is not an orlesian spy?
THAT twist in reasoning is the schizio part I was reffering too.

****

Aklso, regarding the GW's from Orlais. Either they are coming or they are not.
If they are coming then Al was right in thinking his leaving doesn't put the country in danger.
If they are not coming then you could argue that the PC is going agaisnt the GW's. After all, if 200 Grey Wardens decide to write off Ferelden because their duty is to stop the Blight, and not save Ferelden, and think that tehy're better off consolidating in Orlais,  then shouldn' the PC follow their decision too?

IPerrin wrote...
And right now I think if anyone's putting their finger in an electric outlet its you, with statements like those, on a thread like this.

I dont' have to act wise all the time

I didn't miss anything.  I just went off the "word of God".  You, on the other hand, now that the "word of God" doesn't support your idea, are trying to divert the conversation.  He attempts his coup on the Landsmeet for the exact same reason Alistair does, he didn't get his way.  Whether this fits into your nice little wise package or not, this is the way the game plays out.  So either the writers have it wrong, or you do.  I'm not much of a betting man, but I'd bet that the writers don't have it wrong.

[goat_fab]

 I find the OP stupid. No offense to you, of course. You must be doing something wrong, because Alistair is great as a tank AND as a DPS role. 

As a male character, I befriended Alistair completely and will do so on all my playthroughs. Yeah there are parts that pissed me off, such as his reaction to your choice in deciding the fate of Arl Eamon's son but you have to think that you'd react the same way as him. I barely read what you wrote. I skimmed over bits and caught that you thought Alistair immature and stupid. I can maybe see him as immature, but he's definitely not stupid. If you think Alistair is immature, then Sten must be your ideal man and Oghren must be the spawn of Satan. I'm not even going to bother addressing any of your other points, if you had any. Lmao.

[xtremixt]

ckriley wrote...

I just completed my third playthrough, and I was trying to be as good to Alistair as possible.  I was playing a male character so obviously no romance option available, but I was trying to be a really good friend to him, and a reliable ally.

The problem is, he's such a bumbling idiot.  Not to mention he's horrible in combat as well.  And I had him in really good gear, too.  I actually had rolled a tank, so Alistair's role was somewhat diminished, and I didn't bother to respec him as DPS.  That part was on me.  But in previous playthroughs where I played a DPS role and him as a tank, it was just awful.  Not only could he not hold aggro (even when setting his tactics to generate as much threat as possible, and putting him in massive armor)  but he couldn't take too many hits.  He would just be a constant drain on poor Wynne's mana.  And the DPS would have to blow all their CDs to burn targets down as fast as possible because our healer would be OOM and out of potions.  It was really, really, stupid.  Some people speak highly of Alistair's tanking ability, but I found Shale to be a much better choice, short of just rolling a tank yourself.  Hell, the dog out tanks Alistair.  I'm very serious.

Game mechanics aside, Alistair just fails as a character, too.  He has no confidence, a low self esteem, and is just generally annoying.  Everything he says just grates on my nerves.  I was trying to be nice to him, I really was!  But it was SO HARD.  The icing on the cake for me and the tell tale sign of Alistair's serious immaturity is what happens at the Landsmeet when you confront Loghain.

I did everything in my power to come to a peaceful resolution.  I talked both Anora and Alistair into marrying each other in an effort to unite Ferelden and come to a compromise that would leave Anora in power as the rightful queen, and also ensure that Theiren (sp) blood would be back on the throne with Alistair as king.  Even Eamon was schocked at this development.

And then, after defeating Loghain, I thought it was pointless to have to kill such a great and famed general as he.  Riordan was like, "No, we need all the Grey Wardens we can get.  And this guy owns!"  Plus, just from a practical point of view, how the hell could I possibly kill Anora's father right in front of her and then expect her to marry Alistair?  This was one instance where I agreed with Anora.  Let Loghaine go through the Joining, and if he survives, we have ourselves one HELL of a new Grey Warden (plus it's poetic justice - make Loghain what he despised the most, the irony of that...), and if he dies, we have our revenge.  I was totally cool with that.

But what does Alistair do?  He throws a complete tantrum.  His personal emotions cloud his reason and I had to freaking choose between him or Loghain.  So freaking retarded.   And because I decided before this playthrough that this was going to be "Alistair's game", I chose to kill Loghain to keep him, thereby losing Anora's support and having the planned marriage completely fall apart.  I was so angry.

I mean, he's just so immature.  That one moment said all you need to know about what kind of man Alistair is.  He's a child.  A spoiled little brat that I hate with the burning passion of a thousand suns. So poorly designed and written as a character.

As for supporting Harrowmont over Bhelen in Orzammar, this completely, totally, and utterly dooms the dwarves to absolute ruin.  When you choose Bhelen, he actually turns out to be a very progressive king.  He dissolves the caste system. opens up trade with the surface, doesn't seem to mind the Chantry, and moves Orzammar into the future.

What happens when you support Harrowmont?  The so-called "good guys" choice?  Even more restrictions on the caste system are put in place.  Orzammar becomes more isolated than any other time in history.   Brother Burkel (sp) is killed and the Chantry considers a new Exalted March to force conversion, etc.  It's just awful.  Exasperating the situation is the fact that I chose to help Branka instead of Caradin, which actually causes a small war between Orzammar and Fereldan because Branka starts to abduct surfacers for new golems.

So, when compared to all the other options in the game, like supporting Anora as queen and putting Bhelen on the throne in Orzammar, this just confirms that article in Gamasutra about the moral compass in DAO pointing south.  The comparisons aren't even close.

 

Haha I love this post. So much hate for the man-child. The first time I played through I was a dwarf noble warrior, no way was I gonna let Bhelen get the throne. But Alistair was neutral towards me in most of the "good guy" playthough. Now i'm playing as evil noble warrior, he hates my guts, spend most of his time at the camp. Probably will go crawl under a rock and die when i choose Loghain over him. I hope i can marry anora and become king, that would be sweet, i was thinking of letting loghain kill the demon at the end. just in case he decides to kil the next king. i really hope this is a possible ending, i'm gonna be peeved if it is not.

[xtremixt]

WhiteRaevan wrote...

 I find the OP stupid. No offense to you, of course. You must be doing something wrong, because Alistair is great as a tank AND as a DPS role. 

As a male character, I befriended Alistair completely and will do so on all my playthroughs. Yeah there are parts that pissed me off, such as his reaction to your choice in deciding the fate of Arl Eamon's son but you have to think that you'd react the same way as him. I barely read what you wrote. I skimmed over bits and caught that you thought Alistair immature and stupid. I can maybe see him as immature, but he's definitely not stupid. If you think Alistair is immature, then Sten must be your ideal man and Oghren must be the spawn of Satan. I'm not even going to bother addressing any of your other points, if you had any. Lmao.

there is a way of saving both the mom and the kid. 

[Kohaku]

xtremixt wrote...

Haha I love this post. So much hate for the man-child. The first time I played through I was a dwarf noble warrior, no way was I gonna let Bhelen get the throne. But Alistair was neutral towards me in most of the "good guy" playthough. Now i'm playing as evil noble warrior, he hates my guts, spend most of his time at the camp. Probably will go crawl under a rock and die when i choose Loghain over him. I hope i can marry anora and become king, that would be sweet, i was thinking of letting loghain kill the demon at the end. just in case he decides to kil the next king. i really hope this is a possible ending, i'm gonna be peeved if it is not.

Edit: If you are a Human Noble you can marry Anora.

Modifié par Kerridan Kaiba, 07 janvier 2010 - 04:00 .

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Xandurpein wrote...

eschilde wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

In the codex about Bryce Cousland, it says that many of the lords wanted him as king.  It's not so much that he's second to the throne, it's that if Cailin is dead, he would be the choice of the lords to become king if there is no Theirin to be on it.

But Loghain has no reason to kill Bryce Cousland. He has Anora and she already IS Queen of Ferelden (not consort mind you). There is almost no chance that there would be enough support to depose Anora and replace her with Bryce Cousland. It took quite a feat to make the Landsmeet to accept Alistair - and he IS of Maric's blood.

I'm not saying Loghain couldn't have any reasons to want Bryce Cousland dead, but I don't know of any and securing the throne for Anora is NOT plausible.

Well, it could be plausible in a really roundabout way. The Couslands are royalists and would support Alistair if he was put forward, which is the first thing Eamon thinks of doing upon waking up from being poisoned. It's assumed that Loghain knows about Alistair, and in reality Eamon does not have a stronger claim to the throne than Anora, so getting rid of the Couslands in favor of Howe does actually make it more likely that Anora's seat will be more secure.

That argument calls for a few assumptions, even if it's not totally implausible. I for one still think that the evidence for that Howe nurtures a vendetta against the Couslands is far stronger than for any supposed gain Loghain might have. If Loghain did harbour any thoughts about the Couslands being a major problem for him it would be because of Howe's poison.

I was at Howe's estate just last night. I can't remember exactly what he said just before I killed him but it was something about how lucky he was that taking out my family resulted in getting the ear of the regent. I took it to mean that he took out the Cousland's on his own but because what he did was beneficial to Loghain, they allied up.