555 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

ckriley wrote...
...
The problem is, he's such a bumbling idiot.  Not to mention he's horrible in combat as well.  
... 

Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere in the thread, but what system (PC, XBox, PS3) are you playing on?

[ejoslin]

Alistair . . . if you romance him, then have Wynne and/or Leliana in the party, wow. I just wanted to hit him. "Leliana, you're a female, right? How can you tell a girl that you love her?" "Wynne, you're a woman, right? What would you do if someone told you he loves you?" OMG. That is enough to dump him here and now. Or at least leave him in camp so you can maintain SOME respect for the guy.

[Sidney]

Obadiah wrote...

ckriley wrote...
...
The problem is, he's such a bumbling idiot.  Not to mention he's horrible in combat as well.  
... 

Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere in the thread, but what system (PC, XBox, PS3) are you playing on?

Should not matter the system. He's a shield wielder so he's going to be (roughly) the same as all those guys. He can't be "horrible" unless someone just hates shield users and if that is the case they need to seek therapy. Allistair is the best fighter in the game among the NPC's because of that shield use.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

melkathi wrote...

I'll just quickly agree with the Alistair hating.
Of course he has issues. Everyone who joins a single player rpg party as a npc must have issues - it's part of the job description.
And obviously it's tough to suddenly loose all your friends in one swoop.
But as people said, human nobles didn't exactly have it easy either. Or play as a female city elf: at your wedding a noble tries to rape your friends, so you offer to "entertain" him yourself instead if he leaves the others alone. He refuses, grabs you and your friends, his guards execute one of them. Your husband-to-be is killed trying to rescue you, your best friend gets gangraped and you are forced to flee the city in hope that your absence will mean the other elves will suffer less retribution.
Or has his life up to the events at Ostagar been so much worse than that of your character as a casteless?

You can best compare Alistair to Zevran. Both are orphans that were given to an organization for training. One was put in the chantry and tought to kill mages, the other was taken by the crows and tought to kill anything he was told.

In a way his sister was right. Of the two she has had the tough life, but he does the whining.

You know, when Alistair tells you how he is glad that the other warden who survived was you, I have thought "Well I'd prefer it if the other warden that survived was Daveth and not you." At least Daveth, in his discussion with Jory, shows an understanding of the importance of his duty.

First, did I miss the options the PC has to mention his/her sadness? Personally, I thought Bioware was lacking for not giving the PC the option to discuss anything that's happened, beyond a few mere mentionings. But just because the PC doesn't have the option doesn't make Alistair a whiner because he does.

Zevran actually enjoyed his life and belonged somewhere. He has lots of nice things, friends, sex... he made out pretty well considering where he came from. He left that life not just because he could try the freedom thing out but because he was as good as dead if he didn't.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Yep, and in real life, when somebody is that much of a whiner, I can kick them to the curb. Can't do that with Alistair, he still has to breathe my air in camp.

I wish I could kick you in the curb. Your'e the worst whiner ever.

At least Al has a legitimate reason for whining and runs out of whines eventually.
Your comes down to "I hate this guy", and you keep going like an energizer bunny.

Pwnd.

[Thor Rand Al]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh hey, so is this the ten millionth thread whining about Alistair's tanking/personality? Getting into that issue is pointless - if you fail to understand his background or want to ignore it, then you can keep viewing him the way that you do, although properly spec'ed he's a good tank. Throw in some Champion & Templar abilities and it goes quite nicely (for me anyway) - that and actually setting up his tactics. As for the other things, you're missing something really obvious - the whole point of the choice between Bhelen and Harrowmont is that things don't always work out the way you expect - kind of like real life.

I use to have the same view of Alistair as far as being um having no backbone, until I played a female pc... Alistair is one of the more emotional characters in the game... He's sweet, caring, very lovable n if you treat him good he's totally devoted to you; "You're wish is my command." The first few times I played this I played a male pc but damn there's another side to Alistair if you play a female pc that just draws you in, just like that b**** Morrigan... I dislike her even more after playing a female pc; making me choose like that... Thanks bioware lmao...  Ckriley all I have to say is if you're female try playing a female pc n romance Alistair if you haven't yet, you'll have a different opinion of him... I know I do   lmao

[Hezulkai]

robertthebard wrote...

I have to say this, for clarity's sake. As a person, I despise Alistair. He is not somebody that would run in my group of friends. The dishonesty part we could get over, none of us are exactly paragons ourselves, but the constant whining isn't something that would go over very well. We don't get together like we used to, but when we do, we don't spend our time worrying that fully half the people we grew up with are in graveyards. He's not somebody that could run with us.

As a tank, he does a fine job, if built correctly. As a character, he is well written. If he wasn't he couldn't illicit the responses he does. His fans love him, and won't do anything to hurt his one manly feeling, while others can't wait for the Landsmeet, where he's either dead, or off getting drunk. Kudos to the writer/writers for doing such a fine job. This is applicable to all the NPC's too.

The funny thing is, there's a significant passage of time between the start of the game, and say, the Landsmeet.  On a mage, I ran the mage's tower after Haven (so, second in the storyline) and afterward Wynne mentioned that it had been almost a year since I left the tower.  So in a year (or several years), in all the other fighting, injuries, here and there chatting, questing, travelling, buying, selling, and negotiating, Alistair mentions (largely only if you specifically ask him) that he still hasn't quite come to terms with the betrayal and murder of the first person in Alistair's life who cared about him as something other than a political tool.

And he's whining?

Anyway, the way he's written is somewhat immature and young, and he's also self-aware enough to realise others see him that way.  He plays off the dumb oaf thing when it suits him, and most of the party sees right through it anyway.  Each of the characters has a secret, or several, or something about them that runs contrary to polite society. 

In any case, it's interesting in the million and one threads about this to see people passionate on both sides of the equation.  I personally try to avoid running with Leli, Morrigan and Zev to the point that I downloaded the mod that lets me bash open locks so I don't have to have either of them in a non rogue PC party.  And funnily enough, many of the negative things lobbed at Alistair are my pet peeves about Leli and Morrigan.  Whining, duplicitous, clingy, selfish.

I think it's great we all feel interested enough to argue it out.  Signs of an engaging game, at least.

[AtreiyaN7]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh hey, so is this the ten millionth thread whining about Alistair's tanking/personality? Getting into that issue is pointless - if you fail to understand his background or want to ignore it, then you can keep viewing him the way that you do, although properly spec'ed he's a good tank. Throw in some Champion & Templar abilities and it goes quite nicely (for me anyway) - that and actually setting up his tactics. As for the other things, you're missing something really obvious - the whole point of the choice between Bhelen and Harrowmont is that things don't always work out the way you expect - kind of like real life.

I use to have the same view of Alistair as far as being um having no backbone, until I played a female pc... Alistair is one of the more emotional characters in the game... He's sweet, caring, very lovable n if you treat him good he's totally devoted to you; "You're wish is my command." The first few times I played this I played a male pc but damn there's another side to Alistair if you play a female pc that just draws you in, just like that b**** Morrigan... I dislike her even more after playing a female pc; making me choose like that... Thanks bioware lmao...  Ckriley all I have to say is if you're female try playing a female pc n romance Alistair if you haven't yet, you'll have a different opinion of him... I know I do   lmao

Yes I've always liked Alistair and thought he was a solid guy (also cute with a goofy sense of humor  ), hence my defending him as a general rule. However, after the 10 millionth thread where someone whines about his "whining," writing an extended defense of his character is getting a bit tiresome (just like arguing over the, ooooh, but his behavior at Landsmeet is SO out-of-character-that-I-hate-him-forever-and-ever one that always comes up). He's the character my PCs romance of course. However, I think you probably can't convince people like the OP because they choose to ignore the character's backstory and motivations. Instead, they just want to categorize any emotional responses/conversation as "whining." Not that he doesn't have his moments when he's a little immature, but you know, on the whole he's solid. Anyhow, if the OP had just lost everyone he'd cared about, I expect he'd be as upset as Alistair.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 02 janvier 2010 - 10:04 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

melkathi wrote...
And obviously it's tough to suddenly loose all your friends in one swoop.
But as people said, human nobles didn't exactly have it easy either.

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AngstDissonance

If you were really in the shoes of a human noble, or city elf, you would be acting very differently than you think you would, and see things differenlty.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 02 janvier 2010 - 09:50 .

[Grekofrog]

I want Shale, but i cant see to make my bonus content on Steam to work. No idea whats the problem. I bought the Digital Deluxe Edition. But wont work, Realy want Shale

And Alistair is a whiney little girl on the inside and a big guy on the outside. No place in my party. I roll with double mage Morrigan-Wynne-myself(warrior tank)-Lelianna

[Creature 1]

It's not even the "Duncan is dead, how can I go on?" whining that gets to me, it's the whining about everything. "Ow! Your dog bit me!" "Ow! My arm hurts!" "Please sew my shirt for me, I'm incompetent!"

[Thor Rand Al]

Creature 1 wrote...

 "Please sew my shirt for me,"

I was waiting for Wynne to make a comment on having his new love do it lol, but I never saw the sew shirt comment on this playthrough.

[trh5001]

I don't see how choosing Harrowmont dooms Orzammar. Yes it makes them more insulated and the caste system survives but the caste system had been around for hundreds of years and they were already pretty well insulated not quite seeing the doom in that. It may not be ideal but it doesn't lead to the end of the Dwarves.

[nos_astra]

Creature 1 wrote...

It's not even the "Duncan is dead, how can I go on?" whining that gets to me, it's the whining about everything. "Ow! Your dog bit me!" "Ow! My arm hurts!" "Please sew my shirt for me, I'm incompetent!"

How come people do take Alistair seriously?

Ow! Your dog bit me! - Ah, come on, it's hardly drawn blood.
Ow! My arm hurts! - Sure, you're the tank, that's your job. Poultice?
Please sew my shirt for me, I'm incompetent! - Hey, excellent idea, me too! I'm in desperate need of cloth mending. Wynne, pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaseeee!

Don't see any whining there, it's party banter involving the PC.

[Sialater]

Wynne offers to knit Sten a cloak because he looks cold. I think I might take my PC's mending to her, too. Good idea, Alistair.

[koiosworks]

i played a 'good' character the whole game but got where i hated the alistair toon so much that i graciously let me kill himself on the final boss.  i figure i saved his kingdom having such an incompentent idiot in charge.  turned out the old queen was a good ruler after all.  and i got to live to boot.

[Creature 1]

klarabella wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

It's not even the "Duncan is dead, how can I go on?" whining that gets to me, it's the whining about everything. "Ow! Your dog bit me!" "Ow! My arm hurts!" "Please sew my shirt for me, I'm incompetent!"

How come people do take Alistair seriously?

Ow! Your dog bit me! - Ah, come on, it's hardly drawn blood.
Ow! My arm hurts! - Sure, you're the tank, that's your job. Poultice?
Please sew my shirt for me, I'm incompetent! - Hey, excellent idea, me too! I'm in desperate need of cloth mending. Wynne, pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaseeee!

Don't see any whining there, it's party banter involving the PC.

I am very independent and expect other people to be independent as well.  If you're capable of sewing up your own shirt, bandaging your own arm, polishing your own boots, or washing your own dishes, you should be taking care of that stuff yourself.  If you want someone else to do it, ask them politely like an adult, wheedling or acting childish will just make me get angry at you. 

Regardless of others' opinions on Alistair's childish behavior, it's a fact that I find him annoying.  I'm looking forward to having my two-handed elf warrior have him killed.   

[Creature 1]

Sialater wrote...

Wynne offers to knit Sten a cloak because he looks cold. I think I might take my PC's mending to her, too. Good idea, Alistair.

Will you ask her politely to sew it up or play helpless incompetent to manipulate her into doing it?  Which route you take will determine my response. 

[menasure]

since i see the tank issue being mentioned quite often: if you don't like Alistair or Shale as tank you can try Sten instead ... he might be build as 2H but he has lots strength from the start so it's easy to gear him fast with the best gear and you can give him the shield skills and dex afterward. sort of the opposite of what you have to do for Alistair as tank. even when i kept the original 2H skills he performed just fine and he's not a childish whiner.

Modifié par menasure, 02 janvier 2010 - 11:17 .

[Few87]

Eruanna Guerrein wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Yep, and in real life, when somebody is that much of a whiner, I can kick them to the curb. Can't do that with Alistair, he still has to breathe my air in camp.

I wish I could kick you in the curb. Your'e the worst whiner ever.

At least Al has a legitimate reason for whining and runs out of whines eventually.
Your comes down to "I hate this guy", and you keep going like an energizer bunny.

Pwnd.

Haahahah HA, I almost wet myself!

[keesio74]

if you're having a problem with his tanking, you're not building him correctly. There's plenty on that in the gameplay forum, but in essence: 42 str to wear the best armor, and the rest in dex to avoid getting hit, or at least that seems to work for me.

Agreed. Alistair, early in the game, needs a lot of help. But near the end and with top notch gear and proper Sheild skills, he is the ultimate tank IMHO. I had him, by himself, tanking Ser Cauthrien in the Arl Howe estate fight while the rest of the part took out the archers and mage (I did the no retreat option). He was able to hang in there with a bunch of health pots.

[nos_astra]

Creature 1 wrote...
I am very independent and expect other people to be independent as well.  If you're capable of sewing up your own shirt, bandaging your own arm, polishing your own boots, or washing your own dishes, you should be taking care of that stuff yourself.  If you want someone else to do it, ask them politely like an adult, wheedling or acting childish will just make me get angry at you. 

I do things on my own to the best of my abilities if I have to. If there's somebody else who might do it better and faster than me, I'd always ask for help. How I ask is entirely depending on my mood and how close I am with this person. So yes, with a friend of mine who's a grandmotherly type I'd go for being childish. Heck, it's a family tradition - my mother expects me and my younger sister to be like that. Of course my other sister is a bit like you, a mood spoiler.

[Sarielle]

But he's so much fun to browbeat!

EDIT: Maybe I need to not play such a self-interested ass once in awhile. I never experience any of the romance options, lol. The only time she ever hit it off with a dude was Bishop in NWN2...and that should tell you something.

Modifié par Sarielle, 02 janvier 2010 - 11:41 .

[Creature 1]

klarabella wrote...
Of course my other sister is a bit like you, a mood spoiler.

I like her already! 

[SleelofWpg]

Creature 1 wrote...

NinjaWJ wrote...

Hmm i think part of Alistairs personality comes form him maybe getting abused as a child? I dont know but apparently he had a rough childhood so i think that caused his emotional state

He was never abused, not like Zevran, who is definitely not a whiner.  I'd characterize Alistair's childhood as benign neglect.  Not the best childhood, but not an insurmountable obstacle if he'd man up. 

Zevran was physically, psychologically, and probably sexually abused and he just tells you he escaped easy compared to some, he doesn't say, "I never had a Mum and Dad so I can't sew my own tunic.  :crying:"  

  Eamon's Orleasian bint made him "unwelcome" in the Arl's house. Hence he being packed off to a monastary, at ten, to be trained as a Templar, to then become adicted to lytrium to then end his life as a doorknob like the Templar in Denerim. Nope, no abuse there at all.


Sleel