555 réponses à ce sujet

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Xandurpein wrote...

master-fluff wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

which is best for Ferelden: PC-Loghain+Riordan (no Alistair) or PC+Loghain-Riordan+Alistair.

But neither of those options are remotely tenable.  Loghain would be executed/locked-up for life for what he's done.

Imagine if they did have him along for the fight.  What are the chances he would stub his toe, sit it out then slay any remaining Grey Wardens/witnesses.  It would work out well for Loghain and it's what he's been working towards all along.  Bit risky don't you think ?  Warriors have no time for traitors for good reason.

The only options are PC+Alistair+Riordan or Loghain+Riordan, the latter assuming Riodarn is a sandwich short of a picnic.
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I think you are caught up in your own feelings here. If you choose to let Loghain live he will follow you dutifully and will offer to sacrifice himself and slay the Archdemon to attone for his past crimes. You are of course free to hold on to the opinion that he is not worthy of your trust, I wouldn't presume to tell you otherwise, but I think that it's a bit strong for you to claim that it's impossible to trust him, when the game proves it to be wrong. You are effectivly saying that the writers have misunderstood Loghain and wrote him wrong, if you let him live.

Ah but see, if you, as your PC, can't possibly trust Loghain to be on your team, you never find out if he is trustworthy or dutiful or not. At that point, you go with your gut. Just as those of you do when you decide to give him a shot... you make your judgement call at the time and you only find out what happens for those calls you make, not for the ones you don't. Just because you, as you, know the outcome, doesn't mean your PC does. So it is possible, as your PC, to find it impossible to trust Loghain.

[robertthebard]

Eruanna Guerrein wrote...

Ah but see, if you, as your PC, can't possibly trust Loghain to be on your team, you never find out if he is trustworthy or dutiful or not. At that point, you go with your gut. Just as those of you do when you decide to give him a shot... you make your judgement call at the time and you only find out what happens for those calls you make, not for the ones you don't. Just because you, as you, know the outcome, doesn't mean your PC does. So it is possible, as your PC, to find it impossible to trust Loghain.

Just as you, as a PC can find it impossible to trust Alistair.  Especially considering when you decide to do Redcliffe.  If you do all your treaties first, then Alistair has been living a lie for the entire time you know him.  Regardless of when, he's living that lie, both as a lie of omission, and an outright to your face lie until you go to Redcliffe, if he's with you, or save Eamon, if he's not.  Just as you can claim no excuse for Loghain, there is no excuse for Alistair.  Being afraid of being viewed differently, or being asked to man up to his responsibilities as heir to the throne are not reasons to forgive him for lying to you.  They are excuses to keep the lie going, until he knows that he's going to have to face up anyway, if you bring him to Redcliffe the first time.

[kaimanaMM]

@ Cybercat : I've never had Duncan invoke the Right on any character of mine but my city elf when she was headed for execution.  So if he does indeed break it out on you in the human noble origin, then I am wrong about that.  That's not a fact of me not reading / paying attention.  It is based on the dialogue choices I made which never ended in that happening.

@ Robert : If you believe my tactic is to hit escape through conversations, then that is a misconception on your part.  Each time I've played the human noble origin I remember Bryce shooting Duncan down and brushing you off until "tomorrow", which never comes.  I've only played the human noble origin twice.  I'm not choosing to ignore anything, if I've truly missed something in the conversation, then I admit I must've missed it.

[robertthebard]

kaimanaMM wrote...

@ Cybercat : I've never had Duncan invoke the Right on any character of mine but my city elf when she was headed for execution.  So if he does indeed break it out on you in the human noble origin, then I am wrong about that.  That's not a fact of me not reading / paying attention.  It is based on the dialogue choices I made which never ended in that happening.

@ Robert : If you believe my tactic is to hit escape through conversations, then that is a misconception on your part.  Each time I've played the human noble origin I remember Bryce shooting Duncan down and brushing you off until "tomorrow", which never comes.  I've only played the human noble origin twice.  I'm not choosing to ignore anything, if I've truly missed something in the conversation, then I admit I must've missed it.

Bryce makes it clear first to you, and then Duncan that he doesn't want all his children on the front line.  You do have to ask why you can't go too, though, instead of just accepting your duty to run the keep in his absence.  Howe will even question Bryce on this in the dialog after Duncan suggests you as a possible recruit.

[Xandurpein]

Eruanna Guerrein wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

master-fluff wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

which is best for Ferelden: PC-Loghain+Riordan (no Alistair) or PC+Loghain-Riordan+Alistair.

But neither of those options are remotely tenable.  Loghain would be executed/locked-up for life for what he's done.

Imagine if they did have him along for the fight.  What are the chances he would stub his toe, sit it out then slay any remaining Grey Wardens/witnesses.  It would work out well for Loghain and it's what he's been working towards all along.  Bit risky don't you think ?  Warriors have no time for traitors for good reason.

The only options are PC+Alistair+Riordan or Loghain+Riordan, the latter assuming Riodarn is a sandwich short of a picnic.
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I think you are caught up in your own feelings here. If you choose to let Loghain live he will follow you dutifully and will offer to sacrifice himself and slay the Archdemon to attone for his past crimes. You are of course free to hold on to the opinion that he is not worthy of your trust, I wouldn't presume to tell you otherwise, but I think that it's a bit strong for you to claim that it's impossible to trust him, when the game proves it to be wrong. You are effectivly saying that the writers have misunderstood Loghain and wrote him wrong, if you let him live.

Ah but see, if you, as your PC, can't possibly trust Loghain to be on your team, you never find out if he is trustworthy or dutiful or not. At that point, you go with your gut. Just as those of you do when you decide to give him a shot... you make your judgement call at the time and you only find out what happens for those calls you make, not for the ones you don't. Just because you, as you, know the outcome, doesn't mean your PC does. So it is possible, as your PC, to find it impossible to trust Loghain.

And my point is that not everybody sees it that way. Some of us sees things in Loghain that makes us willing to trust him, despite of what he has done, and unless you are claiming that the writers screwed up totally in writing Loghain's character, then the facts of the game appears to prove us right im our belief.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 04 janvier 2010 - 08:50 .

[Cybercat999]

kaimanaMM wrote...

@ Cybercat : I've never had Duncan invoke the Right on any character of mine but my city elf when she was headed for execution.  So if he does indeed break it out on you in the human noble origin, then I am wrong about that.  That's not a fact of me not reading / paying attention.  It is based on the dialogue choices I made which never ended in that happening.

If you choose being interested in joining GW, Bryce explicitely tells you he is against it. If you choose "I have no interest in joining GW" he acts relieved and tells Duncan "as you see my daughter (I play female) is not even interested".

Now, when he is mortaly wounded and thinks the only way for his child to stay alive is to go with Duncan, then he agrees to the proposition (and not actually knowing what kind of death sentence it is). If you oppose and say there is no chance in hell you want to become GW, Bryce doesnt force you, Duncan does with Right of Conscription.

The only thing Bryce wants it to save his kid and Duncan takes advantage of that with "I am going to save your family if you give me your daughter, but well if she doesnt want to go I am going to force her anyway". I find that utterly disgusting.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 04 janvier 2010 - 09:04 .

[Sialater]

I actually prefer Alistair's (and Cailan's) deluded view of the Grey Wardens. As both a Cousland and a mage, I was forced into it, I saw no reason to run from either of the situations in which I was placed. But Duncan, being the ruthless a**hole we all know and love to hate, wasn't about to be denied his pound of flesh.



Because what exactly are you trying to save from the Blight, if you're willing to sacrifice everything to destroy the Blight?

[ReubenLiew]

In the words of our God Emperor's most holy Imperium.
Men must die so that Man may live.

-edit- Heh, made a mistake with that quote.

Modifié par ReubenLiew, 04 janvier 2010 - 09:17 .

[Damsel of Distress]

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

[Cybercat999]

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

Did you ever tell your kids bugging you about ice-cream before dinner that you will consider it? I did. They never got the ice-cream but I got a break.

[robertthebard]

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

You mean during the little family reunion just before you go to bed?  He agrees to consider it, after all the mess at Ostagar is cleaned up, I believe.  As it stands, he's counting on you to keep his affairs in order while he goes off to war.

[nos_astra]

robertthebard wrote...

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

You mean during the little family reunion just before you go to bed?  He agrees to consider it, after all the mess at Ostagar is cleaned up, I believe.  As it stands, he's counting on you to keep his affairs in order while he goes off to war.

Yeah, but after Howes betrayal what is there to keep up? The Couslands youngest could run and hide - or fight.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 janvier 2010 - 09:22 .

[robertthebard]

klarabella wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

You mean during the little family reunion just before you go to bed?  He agrees to consider it, after all the mess at Ostagar is cleaned up, I believe.  As it stands, he's counting on you to keep his affairs in order while he goes off to war.

Yeah, but after Howes betrayal what is there to keep up? The Couslands youngest could run and hide - or fight.

While timelines in the game can be pretty jacked up sometimes, the conversation alluded to in your quotes happens just before you go to bed, so it happens just before Howe's betrayal.

[Damsel of Distress]

Cybercat999 wrote...

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

Did you ever tell your kids bugging you about ice-cream before dinner that you will consider it? I did. They never got the ice-cream but I got a break.

Hmm, i thinking sending your kid off to war is slightly different then promising icecream. And since he does trust you enough to leave you in charge of the castle I don't think it's likely he would baby the PC in quite such a manner.

[robertthebard]

Damsel of Distress wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

Did you ever tell your kids bugging you about ice-cream before dinner that you will consider it? I did. They never got the ice-cream but I got a break.

Hmm, i thinking sending your kid off to war is slightly different then promising icecream. And since he does trust you enough to leave you in charge of the castle I don't think it's likely he would baby the PC in quite such a manner.

He's not, but he is looking out for his best interests.  If he didn't care if you went or not, you could have ridden out with your brother and his army.  He forbids it, and explains that it's not like he has enough children to want to send them all off to war, which is the same thing he tells Duncan and Howe during Cousland Day.

[Xandurpein]

Sialater wrote...

I actually prefer Alistair's (and Cailan's) deluded view of the Grey Wardens. As both a Cousland and a mage, I was forced into it, I saw no reason to run from either of the situations in which I was placed. But Duncan, being the ruthless a**hole we all know and love to hate, wasn't about to be denied his pound of flesh.

I certainly find Alistairs delusions about the Grey Wardens appealing too, but it doesn't make it anymore true. The fact of the matter is that some rather horrible sacrifices are needed to kill the Archdemon and stop the Blight. It's not strange that this has lead to the Grey Wardens have become closer to the Foreign Legion, than to the Knights of the Round Table.

Sialater wrote...

Because what exactly are you trying to save from the Blight, if you're willing to sacrifice everything to destroy the Blight?

If you by "everything" means the lives and aspirations of a couple of individuals to save all living things, then that's what the Grey Wardens is all about, isn't it? You sacrifice everything, so everybody else can live. Unless you claim someone proposes to sacrifice every single human being and the coming generations to stop the Blight, then it would be irrational to be sure.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 04 janvier 2010 - 09:31 .

[Cybercat999]

Damsel of Distress wrote...

Cybercat999 wrote...

Damsel of Distress wrote...

If you bring up joining the GW as Fergus is just leaving Bryce does say he'll consider it. So he isn't totally opposed to the idea.

Did you ever tell your kids bugging you about ice-cream before dinner that you will consider it? I did. They never got the ice-cream but I got a break.

Hmm, i thinking sending your kid off to war is slightly different then promising icecream. And since he does trust you enough to leave you in charge of the castle I don't think it's likely he would baby the PC in quite such a manner.

Yes, and he is sending his older kid to war already that same night. He doesnt want to destroy your dreams about fame and glory and he probably needs some quiet time to talk to you and explain why he really doesnt like the idea. Saying "I will consider" is far from saying "I agree".

But my point wasnt about Bryce, it was about Duncan personality being completely repulsive and very wrong. If he goes around trying to drag unwilling victims into GW, I really dont think he is doing anyone a favor, nor making a good name for himself or Grey Wardens.
Alistair is a stupid infatuated oaf if he cant see what his "daddy" does to people.

[master-fluff]

Sabriana wrote...

My PC asked herself "What would Duncan do?" She came up with the answer that Duncan would do anything to beat the archdemon. If you have to make a deal with a subdued devil to beat a demon who is about to destroy your whole country, then you make that deal, and deal with the repercussions later.

Given that Duncan slayed Jory without a moment's hesitation when he refused the joining ritual, I'd say he would have been very much against Loghain joining the GWs.  This is an elite force where the quality of the people and team loyalty is absolutely critical to a mission's success, they're not a numbers game.  If Duncan was running a cannon fodder tactic he would have tried persuasion/blackmail/threat to get Jory to join but he didn't.  Assuming Duncan had survived Ostagar, I think he would kill Loghain himself.
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Modifié par master-fluff, 04 janvier 2010 - 09:45 .

[robertthebard]

master-fluff wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

My PC asked herself "What would Duncan do?" She came up with the answer that Duncan would do anything to beat the archdemon. If you have to make a deal with a subdued devil to beat a demon who is about to destroy your whole country, then you make that deal, and deal with the repercussions later.

Given that Duncan slayed Jory without a moment's hesitation when he refused the joining ritual, I'd say he would have been very much against Loghain joining the GWs.  This is an elite force where the quality of the people and team loyalty is absolutely critical to a mission's success, they're not a numbers game.  If Duncan was running a cannon fodder tactic he would have tried persuasion/blackmail/threat to get Jory to join but he didn't.  Assuming Duncan had survived Ostagar, I think he would kill Loghain himself.
data:image/png;base64,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%3D

Excuse me, what?  He'll take you in the Mage origin no matter which team you play for.  Jory made his intentions perfectly clear, and perfectly contradictory to everything Jory said prior to the joining.  Please, have your facts straight, and then feel free to distort them how you please.  Mark Twain kinda said that.  Castle Cousland, as is being discussed in another thread; I came looking for a recruit, and the Blight demands I leave with one, as Bryce Cousland bleeds out on the floor.  So you think he would be above recruiting Loghain?  I'm sorry, you must be wearing Alistair tinted glasses to come up with that, since, by your own logic, elite fighter would indeed include Loghain.

Despite the common misconception around here, Grey Wardens are not the Knights of the Round Table, and Duncan is not King Arthur.

[Cybercat999]

Well, seeing his recruitment methods I dont wonder there are only 2 of them in all Ferelden...

[Sialater]

Xandurpein wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I actually prefer Alistair's (and Cailan's) deluded view of the Grey Wardens. As both a Cousland and a mage, I was forced into it, I saw no reason to run from either of the situations in which I was placed. But Duncan, being the ruthless a**hole we all know and love to hate, wasn't about to be denied his pound of flesh.

I certainly find Alistairs delusions about the Grey Wardens appealing too, but it doesn't make it anymore true. The fact of the matter is that some rather horrible sacrifices are needed to kill the Archdemon and stop the Blight. It's not strange that this has lead to the Grey Wardens have become closer to the Foreign Legion, than to the Knights of the Round Table.

Sialater wrote...

Because what exactly are you trying to save from the Blight, if you're willing to sacrifice everything to destroy the Blight?

If you by "everything" means the lives and aspirations of a couple of individuals to save all living things, then that's what the Grey Wardens is all about, isn't it? You sacrifice everything, so everybody else can live. Unless you claim someone proposes to sacrifice every single human being and the coming generations to stop the Blight, then it would be irrational to be sure.

Actually, I was talking about saving the Werewolves over the elves just for a "more efficient" fighting force, or not saving Recliffe because it's not directly related to the Blight, or chosing the Anvil to get Golems, or the Templars over the mages.  Taking all the "wrong" choices would make the final battle easier, but would doom what you're trying to save.  I understand my PC's life is forfeit.  Her dreams and aspirations beyond the Joining.  But that doesn't mean she can't try to leave the world a better place before she dies.  Duncan would do no such thing.

[robertthebard]

Sialater wrote...

Actually, I was talking about saving the Werewolves over the elves just for a "more efficient" fighting force, or not saving Recliffe because it's not directly related to the Blight, or chosing the Anvil to get Golems, or the Templars over the mages.  Taking all the "wrong" choices would make the final battle easier, but would doom what you're trying to save.  I understand my PC's life is forfeit.  Her dreams and aspirations beyond the Joining.  But that doesn't mean she can't try to leave the world a better place before she dies.  Duncan would do no such thing.

Actually, I believe Duncan would have tried to end the Blight.  Can't say what he'd have done about the treaties, but he would have tried to end the Blight.  His recruitment methods are harsh, to be sure, but it surely sent me the message that you do whatever it is you have to do to stop the Blight.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

robertthebard wrote...

Ariella wrote...

robertthebard wrote...



I love the line coming into Lothering; "Is it so hard to understand my being upset? How would you feel if somebody close to you died?" to which the Human Noble can't say; "Gee, I don't know, it's not like your hero daddy didn't blackmail my dying father into making me a GW in order to save me from Howe, and then drag me off knowing my mother is going to die right beside him. It's not like I didn't walk into my brother's room, and see his wife and son dead on the floor". For all the detractors, Alistair and Cailin weren't close.

First of all, He was talking about Duncan, not Cailin and second you take the entire quote out of context as he's addressing it to Morrigan who's giving him a had time, not for whining, but for being quiet during the journey from the Kocari Wilds to Loathering.

I don't think I see what point you are trying to make, unless it's his grief is justifiable, but the PC has to stuff their feelings to accomodate his?  The point to that post was that you can't slam him with that.  Instead of pulling an Alistair, even in the Wilds during the gather the blood and treaties part, you are expected to put your feelings on hold to accomplish your mission.  Yet, this isn't applicable to Alistair?  Is it because you feel Alistair was betrayed?  The PC was also betrayed, and unlike Alistair, who doesn't know how Duncan died, particulars, any way, the PC did see their nephew and sister in law, and their mother's friend, and their lover for the night, no big attachment there, so far as we know, and then has Duncan blackmail the bleeding out father to save the PC.  So, where is Alistair's circumstance worse?  That it happened to him?  Self serving Alistair lost Duncan, and yes, that's also the point.  He could give a rat's ass about Cailin, Duncan died, his world is over.

This is where these things become game flaws to me and not character flaws. Where was I given the choice to RP my PC's feelings on anything? When could I go to anyone, a companion or even NPC, and let it all out? If my PC had that option, I might have done a bit of  "whining" myself, if that's what discussing your feelings must be called.

When Alistair leaves at the Landsmeet and you aren't given the option to try to talk to him in private and discuss anything is a game limitation to me too. I think a good relationship is built on two people who compliment each other. When one is down, the other steps up and vice versa. Just because he has a difficult time dealing with that decision doesn't mean *my* PC would necessarily just let him go, although I know some would. Whether my husband, my boyfriend, or my friend, I would attempt to express my reasoning and hope they can understand but I wouldn't expect that to work in front of everyone.

My point is this... there are plenty of things your PC doesn't do, and maybe *your* PC wouldn't do even if given the choice, but your PC isn't given an option. That's a fact. There is no option. I don't resent Alistair's character because he was allowed to vent his feelings and my PC wasn't. To me, it's game mechanics and because my PC's options were limited, I can't get past the game mechanics... if it weren't for them, my options wouldn't have been limited.

[master-fluff]

robertthebard wrote...


Excuse me, what?  He'll take you in the Mage origin no matter which team you play for.  Jory made his intentions perfectly clear, and perfectly contradictory to everything Jory said prior to the joining.  Please, have your facts straight, and then feel free to distort them how you please. 

In my game, Duncan shows up looking for a new recruit.  I show him to his room at The First Enchanter's request, we talk a little and he seems like a nice guy.  Then the Jowen thing happens (I sided with Irving) at the end of which Duncan is there and he's essentially OK with my role in things.  Someone suggests I join the GWs (can't remember if it was Irving, Duncan or even me but apparently I've been a good student and no one questions the suggestion).  Irving checks if I'm willing and I jump at the chance. 

To me, GW recruits are hand-picked to start, then they have to pass a test to show their aptitude and finally undergo a joining ritual which could kill them.  Hence my view that the GWs are a small, elite force based on quality, trust and loyalty.  Jory didn't meet all the critieria and Duncan murdered him rather than having a GW he thought too flakey.  Hence my assertion they're not a numbers game and that Loghain wouldn't pass muster with Duncan either.  Where's my distortion ?data:image/png;base64,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%3D

Modifié par master-fluff, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:32 .

[robertthebard]

master-fluff wrote...

robertthebard wrote...


Excuse me, what?  He'll take you in the Mage origin no matter which team you play for.  Jory made his intentions perfectly clear, and perfectly contradictory to everything Jory said prior to the joining.  Please, have your facts straight, and then feel free to distort them how you please. 

In my game, Duncan shows up looking for a new recruit.  I show him to his room at The First Enchanter's request, we talk a little and he seems like a nice guy.  Then the Jowen thing happens (I sided with Irving) at the end of which Duncan is there and he's essentially OK with my role in things.  Someone suggests I join the GWs (can't remember if it was Irving, Duncan or even me but apparently I've been a good student and no one questions the suggestion).  Irving checks if I'm willing and I jump at the chance. 

To me, GW recruits are hand-picked to start, then they have to pass a test to show their aptitude and finally undergo a joining ritual which could kill them.  Hence my view that the GWs are a small, elite force based on quality, trust and loyalty.  Jory didn't meet all the critieria and Duncan murdered him rather than having a GW he thought too flakey.  Hence my assertion they're not a numbers game and that Loghain wouldn't pass muster with Duncan either.  Where's my distortion ?data:image/png;base64,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%3D

If you refuse to join the GW's, he will conscript you.  If you side with Jowan, he will still conscript you.