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How to end DAIII and avoid the mistakes of ME3


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#76
Mello

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Killer3000ad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think it is useful to define, in general terms, what someone means by a happy/bitter ending. Happy ending doesn't have to mean everything is rosy, nor does a bittersweet ending mean that it can't have some elements that are decidedly positive.


Happy ending = Player character lives, ends up with love interest, retires peacefully/continues to kick ass, allies don't get shatfed, universe isn't shafted, player character isn't forced to accept bad guy's logic, bad guys die.

Bitter ending = Allies were lost on the way, sacrifices had to be made, but the bad guys were defeated/light was thrown into the future. Example of bittersweet, Halo Reach ending. All of Noble Six die, but the Master Chief/Cortana and Pillar of Autumn are successfully launched due to Noble's sacrifice.


YES. Everything about this post was perfect. 

#77
Sacred_Fantasy

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Happy Endings = Players get to accomplish their mission/objective as intended with rewards ( live happily ever after etc ). For example killing the Archdemon and destroying the Reapers.

Bitter Endings = Players get to accomplish their mission/objective as intended at a price. For example killing the Archdemon by sacrificing PC or destroying the reapers by sacrificing PC.

Stupid Endings = Players don't accomplish their mission/objective as intended. Instead, they are forced to accept the opposite. For example cooperating with Reapers or allying with Archdemon or Becoming the Reapers or Archdemon itself ( Darth Vader's Ending in Starwars? ).

And, If you're already told the players that "the world is already at the brink of war" at introduction, then why bother giving the option for players to stop or prevent it with act of diplomacy when you know very well the end will result the same thing? If the reason is due to Hawke doesn't know about the ending, then why the hell bothering to roleplay Hawke's character? 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 novembre 2012 - 11:19 .


#78
dversion

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I think its really limiting to want everything to work out in the end. we should be asking for the best writing possible and explore different emotions this medium can give us. Games can have satisfying endings without it being all happy. DA:O gave the ending I expected and there's nothing wrong with that. Look at a game like New Vegas that has 4 endings all of which are satisfactory, however nothing is ever perfect, you never really fix anything you just change who is in control, and none of the people you hand power to are "good" in the perfect sense of the word.
My favourite videogame endings are ones that are interesting and evocative (Journey, Braid, Shadow of the colossus.) Yes, I admit it needs to be a culmination of something but for them to just give us what we expect is doing ourselves and the writers a disservice. We should be craving new and interesting ways of story telling.
Options, yes but it would be best if "the happiest ending" were subjective to how I played the game, I'm paying money because I want an experience I haven't had before and I want you to push the medium as best you can.

#79
Sable Rhapsody

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dversion wrote...

I think its really limiting to want everything to work out in the end. we should be asking for the best writing possible and explore different emotions this medium can give us. Games can have satisfying endings without it being all happy. DA:O gave the ending I expected and there's nothing wrong with that. Look at a game like New Vegas that has 4 endings all of which are satisfactory, however nothing is ever perfect, you never really fix anything you just change who is in control, and none of the people you hand power to are "good" in the perfect sense of the word.
My favourite videogame endings are ones that are interesting and evocative (Journey, Braid, Shadow of the colossus.) Yes, I admit it needs to be a culmination of something but for them to just give us what we expect is doing ourselves and the writers a disservice. We should be craving new and interesting ways of story telling.
Options, yes but it would be best if "the happiest ending" were subjective to how I played the game, I'm paying money because I want an experience I haven't had before and I want you to push the medium as best you can.


True, but here's the thing about endings.  A bad (or at very least, poorly received) ending is an almost sure-fire way to wreck a story.  It doesn't matter whether the medium is film, games, books, whatever.  Endings are disproportionately important to the amount of time they take up in the narrative--they don't make a story, but they sure as hell can break one.

I'm all for trying new things in storytelling, and TBH I think DA2 was a good place to try.  It was a new story with a new protagonist, and they tried something different.  It didn't fly with everyone, but it was worth testing out.  But ME3, the end of a trilogy adding up to 60+ hours of game?  Not a good place to mess around with plot.  

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:06 .


#80
Fast Jimmy

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Realmzmaster wrote...

I do not understand the need for epilogue slides if the story answers all the points in game. The letters in DA2 served that purpose except it did it at different points in the game instead of the end.


The letters do not compare, in the least, to epilogue slides. Even if they give the exact same information, have the exact same outcomes and reflect the same amount of choice (rarely the case, the letters/emails for ME and DA2 are usually shallow fan service/hero worship) there are three major problems with them that the slides do better. 

1) Not all outcomes are addressed. To be fair, this is also the case with slides. However, volume wise, the case makes itself - there are dozens of slide outcomes in DA:O, while you receive, at most, five to ten letters/emails in the other games. Unless the post man is banging down your door after every quest or interaction, there doesn't seem to be a realistic way to have this many letters. 

2) Letters are, inherently, limited, from a narrative perspective. In the case of DA:O, how would anyone know where to send such letters? If the Warden could be found that easily, Loghain would kill him with no problem at all. In addition, not everyone would write the PC. Or, lest we forget... even be ABLE to write the PC! One slide I loved from DA:O was from Redcliffe where you borrow a sword from a family and return it upon defending the town. The slide says that the boy you spoke with tells of how the boy grew up and became a hero in his own right. But what reason would a young child have to write the Warden? And, given that he was so young and a peasant, what chances are there that he could read and write? And, outside of his thanks (which was already shown in game) and maybe a vague statement about wanting to grow up and be a hero, it would come off as just a child's wish... as opposed to the slide, which tells us, years down the road he WAS successful. Which leads me into...

3) Letters are, simply put, in the wrong part of the game. It's simple psychology - if you have sunk dozens of hours playing a game, you are ready for an ending that is cathartic, that reviews your successes, that makes you feel it is worth it. Again, as I stated above, even if the letters give the exact same information, they aren't as enjoyable. Because putting the (narrative, psychological) reward and outcome of your choice at the end is what is most satisfying for the narrative-driven human psyche. To put that kind of closure in the end scenes themselves is also silly - having NPCs from nowhere show up and make comments that tie up loose ends stretches the realms of believability (Fergus in DA:O pushed this concept) and don't make much sense. However, putting up slides that are outside the scene itself, but give us details on our choices gives the player the most closure. 

Slides, inherently, aren't the end-all-be-all of endings, mind you. But understanding why they are effective could go a log way in improving endings if you aren't using them. The reason DA2 ditched them, to me, is probably one of the reasons why people found the ending so jarring and unappetizing (aside from the poor narrative in Act 3 in general). 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 04 novembre 2012 - 05:36 .


#81
abaris

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

True, but here's the thing about endings.  A bad (or at very least, poorly received) ending is an almost sure-fire way to wreck a story.  It doesn't matter whether the medium is film, games, books, whatever.  Endings are disproportionately important to the amount of time they take up in the narrative--they don't make a story, but they sure as hell can break one.


I think it boils down to replayability and a sense of achievement. I guess the main reason why the ME3 endings got so much flak was because no matter what, you more or less ended up in a less than satisfying spot. Hence, hardly any replayability and hardly any sense of achievement.

#82
Fast Jimmy

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^
I don't agree. ME3's endings were badly received because:

A) Every choice results in the same outcomes. Even post-EC, where we get little background slides that convey questionable knowledge, it still roughly ends the same way, regardless of your choices. Sure, if you cured the genophage, you see a picture of a Krogan holding a baby (with or without green goop circuitry... like THAT makes me feel it has any relevance) or a picture of a Krogan shooting a gun. That brings NOTHING to the table. In the end, its all the same tripe, despite the fact that the RGB choice would leave the universe in VASTLY different states.

B) The choices presented are bad, but only because of the logic of a character introduced in the last ten minutes. If you want to give poor attempts at ethical questions as your choice ultimatums in your Deus Ex machina... at least have the common sense to not do it with a character you just conjured up out of thin air. The Catalyst was a terrible character, because of his last minute appearance, his lack of logic with the rest of the games' plots (why did Saren need to hijack the Citadel, exactly?) and the very real possibility that he had no idea what he was talking about.

C) The endings were dark for the sake of being dark. This wasn't to tell a better story, or to set up the universe for future games... it was a dark ending for no other reason than to be a dark ending. Could you have told a better story where the Reapers were defeated and Shepherd still lived? Sure. But they DIDN'T because that wouldn't be as cool. I didn't want or expect Shepherd to live, but it seemed like they were fishing for options that involved totally fabricated outcomes that were an attempt to be equally weighted (except Synthesis, which is the cyborg paradise). Either way, it was an attempt to seem "deeper" rather than an attempt to tell a better story. An attempt that failed.


Endings are the culmination of hours of work, choices and investment. For the ME3 team to be re-writing the ending and calling in VA's to redo last scenes with wildly different outcomes in November , weeks before the game went gold, shows how little thought were given to the endings... a choice that is EPITOME of foolish for a series of games that prides itself on story.

If there was even just one thing that all of Bioware (and the video game industry in general) should learn, it is this... the endings are important. Give them a LOT of thought. Its the punchline to the joke, its the payday to the work week, its the orgasm to the sex... make it GOOD. Otherwise, you're just going to be sitting there with a black eye.

#83
Little Princess Peach

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heres a good way to have a nice ending stop giving pressure to the creators that make the game and just enjoy it for what it is, because one of these days they will concentrate on the ending so much that the rest of the game will fail

#84
abaris

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

^
I don't agree. ME3's endings were badly received because:

A) Every choice results in the same outcomes. Even post-EC, where we get little background slides that convey questionable knowledge, it still roughly ends the same way, regardless of your choices. Sure, if you cured the genophage, you see a picture of a Krogan holding a baby (with or without green goop circuitry... like THAT makes me feel it has any relevance) or a picture of a Krogan shooting a gun. That brings NOTHING to the table. In the end, its all the same tripe, despite the fact that the RGB choice would leave the universe in VASTLY different states.

B) The choices presented are bad, but only because of the logic of a character introduced in the last ten minutes. If you want to give poor attempts at ethical questions as your choice ultimatums in your Deus Ex machina... at least have the common sense to not do it with a character you just conjured up out of thin air. The Catalyst was a terrible character, because of his last minute appearance, his lack of logic with the rest of the games' plots (why did Saren need to hijack the Citadel, exactly?) and the very real possibility that he had no idea what he was talking about.

C) The endings were dark for the sake of being dark. This wasn't to tell a better story, or to set up the universe for future games... it was a dark ending for no other reason than to be a dark ending. Could you have told a better story where the Reapers were defeated and Shepherd still lived? Sure. But they DIDN'T because that wouldn't be as cool. I didn't want or expect Shepherd to live, but it seemed like they were fishing for options that involved totally fabricated outcomes that were an attempt to be equally weighted (except Synthesis, which is the cyborg paradise). Either way, it was an attempt to seem "deeper" rather than an attempt to tell a better story. An attempt that failed.


Endings are the culmination of hours of work, choices and investment. For the ME3 team to be re-writing the ending and calling in VA's to redo last scenes with wildly different outcomes in November , weeks before the game went gold, shows how little thought were given to the endings... a choice that is EPITOME of foolish for a series of games that prides itself on story.

If there was even just one thing that all of Bioware (and the video game industry in general) should learn, it is this... the endings are important. Give them a LOT of thought. Its the punchline to the joke, its the payday to the work week, its the orgasm to the sex... make it GOOD. Otherwise, you're just going to be sitting there with a black eye.


That's what I meant, but you obviously put it into a more comprehensive context.

All of the above boils down to zero replayability since you end up in the same spot. Between a rock and a hard place. That's also what I meant by saying, you didn't get any sense of achievement. Therefore unsatisfying and frustrating rather than enjoyable.

#85
Zeta42

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As long as there won't be half a dozen endings leading to the same outcome with little explanation about what exactly is happening, DA3 won't repeat ME3's greatest failure. But there are many other ways to ruin the ending.
Personally, I'd like DA3 to have the ending slideshow like in DA:O. It is simple and easy. Or a mind-blowing ending like in any of the Assassin's Creed games.

#86
abaris

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Zeta42 wrote...

As long as there won't be half a dozen endings leading to the same outcome with little explanation about what exactly is happening, DA3 won't repeat ME3's greatest failure. But there are many other ways to ruin the ending.
Personally, I'd like DA3 to have the ending slideshow like in DA:O. It is simple and easy. Or a mind-blowing ending like in any of the Assassin's Creed games.


Not comparable in the sense of genre, but Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas also had the slideshow ending to show how the protagonists choices influenced the outcome and the future. It is indeed enough to get a sense of achievement and it seems the cheapest and easiest way to do it.

#87
Spedfrom

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Personally I see happy endings as cookie cutter. They don't feel satisfactory to me because I perceive reality to be much more bittersweet, and sometimes downright unjust, rather than happy. And to me, it has to be belieavable/realistic to be satisfactory.

Edit: There are exceptions to this, of course. Just like I do hope to achieve happiness in my life, but in saying that I underline that I am not at the moment, so perhaps non-happy endings feel the most familiar to me.

Modifié par Spedfrom, 04 novembre 2012 - 06:21 .


#88
Bernhardtbr

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Maybe but it works if well written. Does everything have to use CGI for full effect?

#89
AlanC9

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

A) Every choice results in the same outcomes. Even post-EC, where we get little background slides that convey questionable knowledge, it still roughly ends the same way, regardless of your choices. Sure, if you cured the genophage, you see a picture of a Krogan holding a baby (with or without green goop circuitry... like THAT makes me feel it has any relevance) or a picture of a Krogan shooting a gun. That brings NOTHING to the table. In the end, its all the same tripe, despite the fact that the RGB choice would leave the universe in VASTLY different states.


Hmm..... so you can cause problems by making your ending states too different? Or do you figure that it was possible to properly express the differences between the endings with some feasible additional level of resources?

#90
cindercatz

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I want a few things out of the ending.

1. I want the ending to take into account all the important choices I made getting there, something DA:O was perfect about. The Battle of Denerim made nods to your choices, but even more important was the epilogue scene that truly ended the game and the epilogue slides. The final end game conflict wasn't wildly divergent, but all the factors around it and following it were. That's what I want.

DA2 and ME3 both failed in this area because DA2 gave me a railroaded set of results and a battle against both sides for no real reason, and ME3 gave me a final few minutes divorced from 98% of everything that came before it. That's what I don't want.

2. I want it to make sense. If the inevitable result of everything up to that point would lead me one direction, don't handwave all that and give me a stock set of outcomes that ignore everything that came before. Extrapolate cause and effect. Exposit whatever needs exposition. Don't leave me with glaring plot holes. ME3's original ending failed here, and DA2's did too. I chose the mages with my first Hawke (likely every Hawke, pro-templar Hawke makes zero sense to me), and yet I was still left fighting crazy abominable Orsino. Boooooo! Don't do that.

This also extends to any end boss. I don't care about some gamey end boss battle. I do care about the story finding internal resolution. If there is an end boss, it needs to make complete sense, and if not, that also needs to make sense. Give me what you spend the previous hundred hours building up to, whatever that is. If it's a major battle between armies just outside and my character's sitting at a negotiator's table laying out the permanent truce conditions, so be it. (I would like to also influence that battle in some way also, though. :-) )

This also determines whether the end should be on an up note, a down note, or anywhere in between. Give us what the story dictates, and let us influence it within that range.

3. I want.. not closure, that's the wrong word. I want the ending to continue the story, to bring me forward beyond the credits like DA:O's did so well. Leave me longing for the future. Don't drop me off a cliff. I want hints of things to come, even if they don't work out like I might think they would. That goes for all my companions, all the major NPCs, my own character, and all the major factional decisions. DA:O did a fantastic job of this. If we actually got animated scenes instead of slide shows and maybe further dialogue choices, that would be even better.

4. I want thematic resolution. Not everything has to be resolved like a one off, self contained game. I hope not. I do want the primary immediate conflict resolved, however, like the Arch-Demon in DA:O and Saren in ME1. Plant seeds for the future, build on the past, but make every entry in the series stand on its own as well, with its own full narrative arc. I feel this hasn't really been fully accomplished since DA:O and ME1.

5. Story Synergy. I want all the major decisions and all the major characters to influence the narrative flow of the ending in some way. I want all my characters to play a part, all my choices to influence the details. The Suicide Mission in ME2 did a good job of this, giving everybody necessary jobs and roles of varying prominence. Just give the sense that everything up to that point is coming together at the finale.

:-)

#91
Fast Jimmy

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AlanC9 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

A) Every choice results in the same outcomes. Even post-EC, where we get little background slides that convey questionable knowledge, it still roughly ends the same way, regardless of your choices. Sure, if you cured the genophage, you see a picture of a Krogan holding a baby (with or without green goop circuitry... like THAT makes me feel it has any relevance) or a picture of a Krogan shooting a gun. That brings NOTHING to the table. In the end, its all the same tripe, despite the fact that the RGB choice would leave the universe in VASTLY different states.


Hmm..... so you can cause problems by making your ending states too different? Or do you figure that it was possible to properly express the differences between the endings with some feasible additional level of resources?


It wouldn't have cost many recourses at all. Epilogue slides with text could have done this great. A great example of how much better the ME3 endings could have been on a shoestring budget can be found here:

http://shannon.users...net/masseffect/

If the ME3 team had done this and nothing more, it would have been infinitely better than the actual endings, even post-EC. 

#92
Guest_Ivandra Ceruden_*

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Ending slides with a logical story written down on them obviously weren't too 'edgy' and dramatic for Walters & co.

#93
Lotion Soronarr

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Fast Jimmy wrote...
A) Every choice results in the same outcomes. Even post-EC, where we get little background slides that convey questionable knowledge, it still roughly ends the same way, regardless of your choices. Sure, if you cured the genophage, you see a picture of a Krogan holding a baby (with or without green goop circuitry... like THAT makes me feel it has any relevance) or a picture of a Krogan shooting a gun. That brings NOTHING to the table. In the end, its all the same tripe, despite the fact that the RGB choice would leave the universe in VASTLY different states.


I don't really agree with this.
You already knew the result. It was explaned in detail before you made the choice.
Into how extensive details do you thinks the devs should go anyway?


B) The choices presented are bad, but only because of the logic of a character introduced in the last ten minutes. If you want to give poor attempts at ethical questions as your choice ultimatums in your Deus Ex machina... at least have the common sense to not do it with a character you just conjured up out of thin air. The Catalyst was a terrible character, because of his last minute appearance, his lack of logic with the rest of the games' plots (why did Saren need to hijack the Citadel, exactly?) and the very real possibility that he had no idea what he was talking about.


Yeah, Catalyst was crap and the whole plot post ME1 has been getting progresively worse.

C) The endings were dark for the sake of being dark. This wasn't to tell a better story, or to set up the universe for future games... it was a dark ending for no other reason than to be a dark ending. Could you have told a better story where the Reapers were defeated and Shepherd still lived? Sure. But they DIDN'T because that wouldn't be as cool. I didn't want or expect Shepherd to live, but it seemed like they were fishing for options that involved totally fabricated outcomes that were an attempt to be equally weighted (except Synthesis, which is the cyborg paradise). Either way, it was an attempt to seem "deeper" rather than an attempt to tell a better story. An attempt that failed.


I disagree here too.
Shepards death only seems appropriate.

As much you say "it wasn't done to make a better story" I'm afraid it remains only your oppoinion.

#94
BlueMagitek

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Mass Effect followed one character, Shepard and his battle with the Reapers. Shepard's story was going to end with the defeat of the Reapers.

Dragon Age follows different protagonists with each game (not counting DA:O's expansion Awakening) and is more about Thedas and the many conflicts it has. It doesn't really have a set ending point (other than, perhaps, the truth about the Maker and Creators).

What I'm trying to get to is that DA3 doesn't need to deal with two direct prequels worth of choices. It has two indirect prequels to deal with and it's probably just going to be the end of the Mage/Templar story, which while present in each of the previous games, was not the focus of the story. So the problems probably won't be the same. =D

#95
AlanC9

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

It wouldn't have cost many recourses at all. Epilogue slides with text could have done this great. A great example of how much better the ME3 endings could have been on a shoestring budget can be found here:

http://shannon.users...net/masseffect/

If the ME3 team had done this and nothing more, it would have been infinitely better than the actual endings, even post-EC. 


I'm not at all convinced that so much text would have gone over well, though I think that project's pretty good.

#96
Kyle Kabanya

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ME3 ending would have been so much better, if they would have made the choices matter. Everything up to the end was meaningless, because you made one more decision that negated everything else that happened before the final decision, and forced everything and everyone into one of three senarios that didn't include shepard, the character we poured our time and heart into.

But aside from that catastrophe, DA3 needs one thing, CLOSURE. It doesn't matter if the game ends with a decision, a boss, a big bang, doens't matter, as long as our choices had a butterfly effect that crafted and molded the ending in some way. And the story must conclude the PC's story, unless it continues to DA4.

#97
Realmzmaster

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I do not understand the need for epilogue slides if the story answers all the points in game. The letters in DA2 served that purpose except it did it at different points in the game instead of the end.


The letters do not compare, in the least, to epilogue slides. Even if they give the exact same information, have the exact same outcomes and reflect the same amount of choice (rarely the case, the letters/emails for ME and DA2 are usually shallow fan service/hero worship) there are three major problems with them that the slides do better. 

1) Not all outcomes are addressed. To be fair, this is also the case with slides. However, volume wise, the case makes itself - there are dozens of slide outcomes in DA:O, while you receive, at most, five to ten letters/emails in the other games. Unless the post man is banging down your door after every quest or interaction, there doesn't seem to be a realistic way to have this many letters. 

2) Letters are, inherently, limited, from a narrative perspective. In the case of DA:O, how would anyone know where to send such letters? If the Warden could be found that easily, Loghain would kill him with no problem at all. In addition, not everyone would write the PC. Or, lest we forget... even be ABLE to write the PC! One slide I loved from DA:O was from Redcliffe where you borrow a sword from a family and return it upon defending the town. The slide says that the boy you spoke with tells of how the boy grew up and became a hero in his own right. But what reason would a young child have to write the Warden? And, given that he was so young and a peasant, what chances are there that he could read and write? And, outside of his thanks (which was already shown in game) and maybe a vague statement about wanting to grow up and be a hero, it would come off as just a child's wish... as opposed to the slide, which tells us, years down the road he WAS successful. Which leads me into...

3) Letters are, simply put, in the wrong part of the game. It's simple psychology - if you have sunk dozens of hours playing a game, you are ready for an ending that is cathartic, that reviews your successes, that makes you feel it is worth it. Again, as I stated above, even if the letters give the exact same information, they aren't as enjoyable. Because putting the (narrative, psychological) reward and outcome of your choice at the end is what is most satisfying for the narrative-driven human psyche. To put that kind of closure in the end scenes themselves is also silly - having NPCs from nowhere show up and make comments that tie up loose ends stretches the realms of believability (Fergus in DA:O pushed this concept) and don't make much sense. However, putting up slides that are outside the scene itself, but give us details on our choices gives the player the most closure. 

Slides, inherently, aren't the end-all-be-all of endings, mind you. But understanding why they are effective could go a log way in improving endings if you aren't using them. The reason DA2 ditched them, to me, is probably one of the reasons why people found the ending so jarring and unappetizing (aside from the poor narrative in Act 3 in general). 


What about the young man Pryce who Hawke saves the Carta. Later on Hawke receives a letter from him written by the Lady of the house where he is staying . His sisters have become maids and he is now a fine shepherd. So young men can write or have someone write if they so chose. Also Hawke had a residence so it was easy for letters to find their way to Hawke. DA3 will have a castle so once again the protagonist will have a residence. No trouble getting mail. Simple psychology also believes in immediacy. Why delay the outcome until the end when it can have an effect in-game?

Also letters not being as enjoyable is a subjective opinion. I enjoy receiving the letters in game far more than waiting for the outcome at the end. I did not find the ending of DA2 to be jarring or unappetizing because many of the loose ends had been tied up. I prefer in game closure. Varric delivered the kind of closure I like. 

The letters not comparing is again a subjective point of view which I do not share. And as you stated not all outcomes where addresses either way. I was far more touched when Pryce and Feynriel wrote Hawke than any ending slide could convey.

#98
sH0tgUn jUliA

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I know we're all supposed to be "big grown up people" here with 18 or over. Yes. I know that. I'm your grandmother so stow that argument.

I'm pretty sure that with this being the third chapter of the series this is going to have multiple endings. Please let's not have every single one of them be grim and dark. That has gotten so bloody tiring. Let's have one that's a happy ending, please.

Let's have some closure, and not a "Next Tuesday" ending, please. If you're going to have an open ending please add "To be continued". I can live with it if you have those words there. Just don't leave us hanging like ME3 does with the dreaded "breath" scene.

And another thing. Let's please not have every single part of the story so grim and dark. Life isn't all grim and dark. Party banter should at least have humor in it, it's not all serious all the time. I think comic relief is the term. Some of the side quests should be light-hearted.

Let's avoid railroading the player. Conversations where there are more than two dialog choices and make them so that they really are different.

And have our choices matter in the end. Have the ending foreshadowed during the plot. I know that sounds very mainstream and all that, but it's best not to try and get fancy because that ends up as a WTF just happened? And there's nothing wrong with an old fashioned boss fight so long as it isn't a gimmicky boss fight or one that is going to take like 10 years to beat. It needs to make sense.

Just don't pull an ME3.... no... no... no.. no....

There was so much that DA:O did right that ME:3 did wrong.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 04 novembre 2012 - 11:41 .


#99
Plaintiff

Plaintiff
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Dasher1010 wrote...
1. Give players a real final boss. Somebody who's been an antagonist for most of the game.

"Do everything that every game has always done and never try to tell a different kind of story ever!"


2. Think about the things that the EC fixed. An epilogue with slides that show the impact of choices is practically mandatory.

No it's not, and if it is, it shouldn't be. Slideshows suck.


3. Don't bring in any new characters right at the end. The ending should be about closure, not introductions.

Except that's hardly ever true. Surprise revelations are commonplace in stories of every kind, and practically every movie, book and videogame has a sequel hook, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Please, don't copy ME3's ending (which copied the reviled Deus Ex Human Revolution Ending and was copied by the equally hated Assassin's Creed III ending) since it just left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

Human Revolution's Ending is just fine, and please don't post spoilers for Assassin's Creed III because 1) They aren't relevant to DA3 and 2) It just came out a few days ago and telling people how it ends would be a complete dick move. I myself am only halfway through it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 05 novembre 2012 - 01:35 .


#100
SafetyShattered

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Zeta42 wrote...

.
Personally, I'd like DA3 to have the ending slideshow like in DA:O. It is simple and easy.


This times a hundred. I freaking loved that slideshow. It was awesome to see just how much of an impact my character had on the universe instead of the usual "leave it your imagination" crap. Don't get me wrong I don't mind that to a certain extent, but I'd like at least to have some questions answered.