258 réponses à ce sujet

[Abriael_CG]

Pausing adds another layer of tactics to a game that otherwise would have a much more shallow fighting. It was great in the baldur's gate series, it's great in Drakensang and it's great in dragon age.

The spell combo system makes it even better.



So simply no, pausing is not dumb. It's a mechanic coherent with the genre and works great in this game. If you don't like it, simply don't hit space, you're not required to.

[AshedMan]

If you don't like pausing then don't use the feature?

[VanDraegon]

JackFuzz wrote...
Original Thought
Aah yes, let's face it...  Pausing is dumb.  It's either realtime or turn based. There is no middle ground.

I completely disagree.

[Vaelic76]

pausing sucks

[Sylixe]

Just don't hit the pause button maybe? What exactly was the point of this thread other than to troll?

[MerinTB]

JackFuzz wrote...

Genuine
This post is genuine and not a troll.   

I'll agree here.  It seems like you are trying to have a discussion, and for the most part are not attacking people or deliberately trying to insult people or what they like.  Mostly.  So, despite other people pointing out you've tried this thread before, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  As long as you don't come in and constantly shoot down any point that disagrees with you and/or insult those who disagree with you, you are most likely not trolling.

Original Thought
Aah yes, let's face it...  Pausing is dumb.  It's either realtime or turn based. There is no middle ground.

Let's face it - definitive declaritive statements where you put forth opinion as rock-solid fact are what causes people to consider you a troll.
Many people love being able to pause and tactically made decisions in a game.  It's a different kind of gaming from FPS "twitch" gaming or the strategy of an RTS.  Some people prefer Battle Chess to Archon.  Some gamers really don't want to rely on their reaction speed and more on their thinking and planning.  This is neither right nor wrong, it's an opinion about how to enjoy an entertainment product.

You dislike pausing.  That doesn't make it dumb.  Stating that it is dumb, stating there is no middle-ground between RT and TB (when, empiraclly, there are many examples of just that) is just asking for people to argue with you.

Pausing destroys the moment
Because when you pause the moment is lost, you've admitted defeat and turned on a form of god mode (pausing).  You might as well spam a 1000 healing potions while you're at and then turn on the cheat console and teleport yourself into the black city.

It's not admitting defeat to play a game the way it was designed to be played.  If you went and tried to play Rainbow Six like you'd play Silent Storm (or vice versa) you'd probably lose if you didn't adapt to how the game was designed to be played.

There are games where you never get to see your health bar - Resident Evil 2 or the like.  Does that mean a game like Street Fighter is cheating because you can see your health at all times, or a game like Baldur's Gate 2 is cheating because you can check out your health as a number?

What you are saying is like saying that playing Archon is admitting defeat, since you couldn't win at the strategy of Chess and had to instead rely on your reflexes and twitch gaming skills instead.

Modifié par MerinTB, 02 janvier 2010 - 05:55 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

I was going to pick apart this post but it looks like Merin beat me to it.



Although everyone is entitled to an opinion, claiming your opinion as fact is ridiculous. Also, when your opinion contradicts facts you are either misinformed or stupid, take your pick.



Saying things like "Pausing is dumb. It's either realtime or turn based. There is no middle ground." is not only erroneous but makes you seem like the very troll you purport not to be.

[Mako659]

I don't see pausing as stupid or retarded but as a form or tool of tactics in this game. You may need to assign a companion to some specific task even if you at the start of a battle think you have perfected your tactics of each npc. Or, some event of the battlefield may suddenly demand quick and precise control of a character and most players have only two hands where the total controlling of 4 characters would need 4 pairs of hands. You can't predict what will happen on the field and therefore the tactics can't cover every situation. Tactics and pause mode commands supplement each other.



It doesn't break the game, or more accurately, it doesn't have to. You can become one of the people who report having completed the game ten times in three weeks well without the pausing option. For example just fail to utilize one of the oldest feature in any game: difficulty setting.



For me immersion is very important and I don't think pausing even ruins that. Commands given in pause mode can still even be considered realistic because in reality the 4 characters in your group would be able to make up their own mind regarding any matter in a split second, not just referring to some tactics scheme made before the battle.

[fchopin]

The point is it would have been nice if we could play the game without using pause all the time.



If you try to play the game without using pause you would die very quickly as the tactics are not good enough to allow this.



If the tactics did a better job then both micromanagement and a more live game would be possible and bioware would sell more games.

[Blenhim]

I use pausing.

I have a hand problem and it makes it easier for me when I can pause.

I would be dead in a flash if I didnt have it.

I dont think it ruins anything but its one of those things you dont really have to use if you dont want to.

[NinjaWJ]

I think pausing is necessary in this type of game. Some situations are jus ttoo hard/complicated to take on realtime. Plus the console version (im playing the PS3 version) has a different interface so pausing is necessary

[fantasypisces]

Pausing is essential in this game. Just consider like this, when in real life you would be shouting "ALISTAIR GET THAT ALPHA!" or along similar lines, we have to bring down that Emissary, well you can't just say that to your companions through some voice capture and have them understand, that is what pause is for.



Pause is for your shouting commands and your companions listening to you, to announce strategy. Otherwise your companions would just be running by their tactics.



If you don't pause then when you want three to attack one target, and the last to cc something, then it would be like this in real life.

"Alistair attack that alpha"

<look around for Leliana>

"Leliana, attack that alpha"

<look around for Sten"

"Sten attak that alpha"



Then you as the PC mage cc something. That is all much slower (and how it would be if you didn't pause) from just shouting(pausing) "EVERYONE ON THAT ALPHA".

As an example anyway.

[xka]

wanderon wrote...

Not pausing = twitch gaming where the players dexterity means more than the characters - thats not roleplaying to me - roleplaying is planning the character and making decisions on the role he plays as he interacts with the world and those in it and his success in his venture should have nothing to do with the physical characteristics of the PLAYER.
.

Approval + 3000
That is, this is a rol play game, where battle are decided by characters abilities, not by a quick pad or mouse.

[Pseron Wyrd]

I am ambivalent about pausing. On the one hand I find that the strategic aspects of pausing and assigning tasks can occasionally be an interesting puzzle to solve.

On the other hand I agree with Magnum Opus: there are times (usually the beginnings of fights) when I have to pause so often it becomes a slideshow and I lose connection with the 'flow' of the game. It's less about roleplaying my character and more about my decisions as a player behind the keyboard (the intellectual equivalent of twitch gaming). I begin to feel like a CEO issuing memos to middle-management.

But, then, I don't consider combat to be an integral part of roleplaying anyway, so this issue isn't vitally important. Generally speaking, combat is something I endure in order to get back to roleplaying.

Modifié par Pseron Wyrd, 02 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .

[Nizel138]

Pointless topic. Bioware games have a pause function, they always have, this is hardly new. If you don't want to pause, go into your control settings and unmap the key.

[Dex1701]

I couldn't disagree more with the OP. The player is one person controlling 4 characters. In the heat of a huge battle on Hard or Nightmare (which, to me, are the more realistic difficulty levels) the player is going to need to pause to maintain tight control of the characters. There isn't time to issue orders to 4 characters efficiently without pausing.  Even if the tactics AI was perfect it wouldn't be good enough for some of the really tough battles on Nightmare.  Sometimes you have to micro-manage.  I'm going to guess that the OP hasn't played many party-based RPGs outside of perhaps the FF series.

I would respectfully submit that DA is not the OP's cup of tea, which is fine. Folks that think pausing is "dumb" really need to learn about different types of games. I've been a gamer (both electronic and PnP) for 25 years, and I enjoy pretty much every type of game. Not every game needs to be a first-person action game. Tacical combat has a place. If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't presume that a type of combat is "dumb" simply because you can't understand why others enjoy it.  Some of us like some variety in our game mechanics.  Sometimes I get tired of twitch button-mashers and would like to play something that requries me to use my brain.

If your tastes are that narrow there's nothing wrong with that, but don't presume to take away RPGs with tactical combat simply because you don't like them. Play something else and leave those of us that can appreciate tactical combat with a few titles of that type to enjoy.

Also, to the OP, I'd respectfully suggest not prefacing your opinions with, "let's face it." It makes you come off as very closed-minded or flamebaiting.

Modifié par Dex1701, 02 janvier 2010 - 08:56 .

[NDAv]

I suggest OP play Dungeon Siege instead. In Dungeon Seige, the character AI does all the fighting and player can just sit there and watch. So no pausing needed.

Modifié par NDAv, 02 janvier 2010 - 09:44 .

[JackFuzz]

MOTpoetryION wrote...

the only reason they made us be able to pause is so we can FIX their prehistoric AI. Come on boiware you have talent working for you thats obvious but your AI is garbage .

It would of been nice to have a battle recorder so you could watch a battle pause free  ,after it was done.

It's good to see other of my kind in this thread.

Do you play mount & blade?

[koiosworks]

This is why i generally much prefer a 'single toon' game to controlling a party.  You simply have to use the pause to control you party members since fights are tuned toward a party on party fight.  what i really dislike about controlling a party is that i never really feel much for my main toon.  In my first playthough i rolled a dwarf warrior.  i probaby spent about 3/4 of combat playing Wynn since i had to micro the healing.  By game end, i never felt that i had played a warrior at all.

[JackFuzz]

Pseron Wyrd wrote...

I am ambivalent about pausing. On the one hand I find that the strategic aspects of pausing and assigning tasks can occasionally be an interesting puzzle to solve.

On the other hand I agree with Magnum Opus: there are times (usually the beginnings of fights) when I have to pause so often it becomes a slideshow and I lose connection with the 'flow' of the game. It's less about roleplaying my character and more about my decisions as a player behind the keyboard (the intellectual equivalent of twitch gaming). I begin to feel like a CEO issuing memos to middle-management.

But, then, I don't consider combat to be an integral part of roleplaying anyway, so this issue isn't vitally important. Generally speaking, combat is something I endure in order to get back to roleplaying.

Exactly my friend. You lose flow of the game. 

It seems a few other people catch the gist of what I'm saying.

You know that scene in 300 where Leonidus is going from left to right? Knocking enemies down, killing em, and a lot of it is bullet time for the death animations.    You can't pause that or else the moment is gone.

Remember the captains son and the other guy working together in a two man team?  Pausing that would destroy the entire moment of that scene.

Same thing with dragon age. When you pause the game, it goes from intense battle to let's play chess.

I prefer my planning and tactcs BEFORE a fight, but once **** has hit the fan NO MORE PAUSING.

[Tirigon]

JackFuzz wrote...

Genuine
This post is genuine and not a troll.   One of the reasons I do not put my registration key into these forums is because of the odd moderation of posts. I'm not cursing, I'm not cussing and I'm totally respectful. Yet I always get in trouble for personal views of the game I enjoy playing (to a certain extent). 


Original Thought
Aah yes, let's face it...  Pausing is dumb.  It's either realtime or turn based. There is no middle ground.

If it wasn't for the strong story, voice overs & plot in the game I would of never played dragon age.  I absolutely hate pausing. I hate it so much I play on easy mode.. BUT still sometimes I have to pause.   

Pausing means you admit defeat.  It means the situation was so overwhelming you were forced to pause, accept defeat in order to win. Once a situation is "overwhelming", that is usually the moment you are about to lose and suffer a defeat. 

A Mod
I'm currently in the process of trying to find out if pausing can be disabled via a mod, I will then attempt to make modifications to the game to make a "realtime" mod that is balanced.  Realtime decisions leading to realtime victories are soo much more rewarding than pausing space & time in order to do a 360 with the mouse looking for enemy mages.

Pausing to fix broken AI

I understand that one needs to pause to control their companions.  But isn't that what combat tactics are for? The problem is the AI for your companions is broken. Often times your companions wil do the dumbest things possible and you have to pause in order to fix their broken AI.   That isn't tactics, that is retarded.  Pausing to fix broken AI is a design flaw.

There is a mod that attempts to repair the idea of "combat tactics" and it's making progress. But still.  

I'm just voicing my opinion that I do not like pausing.  If there are others who don't like it either let me know here. If there is enough support then a mod is definitely in order.  

A realtime mod would be ideal for people who want to preseve the intensity of battle.

Pausing destroys the moment
Because when you pause the moment is lost, you've admitted defeat and turned on a form of god mode (pausing).  You might as well spam a 1000 healing potions while you're at and then turn on the cheat console and teleport yourself into the black city.

I disagree. Pausing is a way to allow winning in a balanced game.   If that game would be at least a little bit "realistic" you wouldnt need to pause after a fireball, since you would magically protect your allies and simply kill every foe within 500 metres with a single word. As this isn´t possible (and its good that it isn´t) pausing is there to give you the time to do what a real mage wouldnt need to do - such as aiming your spells, thinking about spellcombos etc......

And while I agree that the tactics don´t really work well, I personally prefer to micromanage them myself anyways.

On a last note I want to make clear that Real-time fights in a game with the combat mechanics of DAO is simply SH*T. If there is real-time fighting, I want to hit with a bow because of my skill in aiming, not because of 100 attack and a little luck......
It´s a different question whether you prefer that way of fighting (I do) or not, but real-time fights + the current fighting system is a NO-GO. Period.

[Yozaro]

JackFuzz wrote...

Exactly my friend. You lose flow of the game. 

It seems a few other people catch the gist of what I'm saying.

You know that scene in 300 where Leonidus is going from left to right? Knocking enemies down, killing em, and a lot of it is bullet time for the death animations.    You can't pause that or else the moment is gone.

Remember the captains son and the other guy working together in a two man team?  Pausing that would destroy the entire moment of that scene.

Same thing with dragon age. When you pause the game, it goes from intense battle to let's play chess.

I prefer my planning and tactcs BEFORE a fight, but once **** has hit the fan NO MORE PAUSING.

All of these whines can be answered with one sentence: You don't have to pause the game.

How hard is it to understand?

Modifié par Yozaro, 02 janvier 2010 - 10:42 .

[FollowTheGourd]

I miss the AI command options in NWN2 (and Tony K's mod), but I get along better now that I bound "select all" to Q and put the companions on hold-position, so I right-click to tell them where to go and what to fight. It's better than them chasing the enemy all over the place and getting ambused. The defensive AI behaviour still had them getting kited away, it seemed.

It's probably not possible to stop somebody from pausing (other than unsetting the keybinding as somebody mentioned in the toolset forum). So what's left to really discuss? Maybe fixing the AI to your liking so you don't feel the need to pause?

There's probably a list somewhere, but off the top of my head the main things that bug me are how you have to disengange from combat before hiding again as a rogue or else the AI makes you blow your cover immediately instead of being able to position yourself for another backstab, how archers switch to melee weapons when melee-attacked if they have a melee weapon in the secondary slot (I guess they forget I invested in the melee archery skill for a reason, and I cleared my tactics to make sure), and the AI not caring enough about causing friendly fire.... or things like if you target an enemy at a distance with Shale and then select that "quake stomp", then it does the stomp at the current position (likely causing FF) instead of moving into range first. Lots of quibbles, but stuff that can hopefully be improved through mods.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 02 janvier 2010 - 11:01 .

[evilhouseboat]

I really liked pausing...

on the PS3 I normally wouldn't need to pause unless it was a larger fight. Pausing also helped if I needed to do several actions at once, i.e. force someone to use a potion, and use some cc at the same time.

[orpheus333]

Would it maybe be a good idea if pause was changed to slow down time like during deathblow animations instead of just stopping it?