258 réponses à ce sujet

[Dwallz]

wassup every body so for i think all ya characters looks amazin

[DragonRageGT]

Cybercat 10 x 0 Dumbos!

[Dwallz]

ragegt dont you know screen shot pic of the game is that just for pc only because i have a ps3

[Shidi]

Ethan009 wrote...
I never said pausing is dumb but thanks for not reading my posts at all.

Congratulations on completely failing to read the SUBJECT of this thread.
"Let's face it. Pausing is dumb."

Modifié par Shidi, 03 janvier 2010 - 04:30 .

[Shidi]

Ethan009: "I hate basketball because I can't kick the ball through goalposts instead of throwing it into a basket! Why couldn't they make it more like football instead?"
Everyone Else: "You know, maybe you should play rugby or something"
Ethan009: "I love the whole 'Play another game!' arguement. Of course its not like
James Naismith could have given us better rules or anything right *rolleyes*

[opusmax]

I'm sorry, I like pausing. I really suck at RTS and won't even buy a game that says RTS in the description. I old and slow and need to stop and look at things and figure out what I've done wrong and what I need to fix it. I like taking my time. I like being able to stop and figure what my kids are bugging me about without dying. I really, really miss the older turn based games but if I can pause a game, I can live with that.

[kaya08]

I had no problem with pausing in KotOR or ME or any other game it featured in. I enjoy turn based games. But combat in this game can at times be frustrating. The AI is a disaster, thats the main problem. Being able to pause the game covers up that huge failing and I think people are mistakenly blaming pausing for their frustration.



It could have been avoided if they let you queue actions (then you wouldn't have to pause it every 2 secs). It could have been avoided in most situation if the basic ai was reasonably decent (hard fights would still require a more hands on approach).

It could have been avoided if the tactics worked - they don't, I can think of numerous occasions when extremely basic commands we're ignored.

i.e. heal when health drops below 75% - im down to 20% and wynne is using arcane bolt against some random enemy with no cd on her heal or her group heal (set to go off if anyone drops below 50%). I even waited to see if she'd use either after having cast arcane bolt, she didn't.

The tactics simply don't work.

Pausing is supposed to give you the best of both worlds - the flow of realtime and the tactics of turn based. It fails in this regard because you have to pause it every 2 secs, so the flow is non existant and you have to manually turn the game in to a turn based one (which is a bit of a pain in the arse). I suspect thats what people are complaining about.

[Pocketgb]

opusmax wrote...

I'm sorry, I like pausing. I really suck at RTS and won't even buy a game that says RTS in the description. I old and slow and need to stop and look at things and figure out what I've done wrong and what I need to fix it. I like taking my time. I like being able to stop and figure what my kids are bugging me about without dying. I really, really miss the older turn based games but if I can pause a game, I can live with that.

And this is why pause is needed. It allows players to better experience the game more on their own terms instead of a crazy RTS clickfest, the latter which is something I personally enjoy.

The problem in this regards is not the mere existence of a pause button, but rather that rarely are we encouraged for getting rid of it. The group that wants a pause button don't have any problems, but - as Kaya nicely pointed out - those who want a more seamless and real-time experience do: tactics are buggy, AI is icky, gameplay in general is a bit sticky.

Of course, much of this is remedied by the existence of incredibly powerful character builds and straightforward but effective strategies, but that's another problem in itself : \\

[Plausible Prejudice]

Pocketgb wrote...
The group that wants a pause button don't have any problems, but - as Kaya nicely pointed out - those who want a more seamless and real-time experience do: tactics are buggy, AI is icky, gameplay in general is a bit sticky.

That's the problem. I don't mind having the ABILITY to pause and select my action twice a second. I just don't want to be FORCED to use it. If the AI was better, or if the combat tactics worked properly I would have no issue, as I could completely ignore the pause/command/pause gameplay style in favor of a much more enjoyable real time strategy.

As it stands, I'm forced to use the pause button or play on easy mode. That's the problem.

[2late2die]

JackFuzz wrote...

I understand that one needs to pause to control their companions.  But isn't that what combat tactics are for? The problem is the AI for your companions is broken. Often times your companions wil do the dumbest things possible and you have to pause in order to fix their broken AI.   That isn't tactics, that is retarded.  Pausing to fix broken AI is a design flaw.

I think you're expecting too much from the game.

In order for you to never have to hit pause ever in a game like DA:O, the AI of your companions needs to be on the same level as your AI, also known as your brain. Do you honestly expect the developers to program this kind of AI into a game when we still can't do that on super computers??
Alternatively they can dumb down the enemy AI or just make the enemies easier to kill - I'm guessing you wouldn't want that.

Fact is, there are 3 characters and dozen or so enemies that the AI has to take care of, each with a multitude of skills and abilities, and at any moment they may be engaged with multiple opponents. It's not realistic to expect the AI to be able to handle all of that on the same level as you would.

Could the AI be better? Of course. I personally would also love to be able to queue up 3 or 4 actions. And of course tactics also needs to be more reliable (though I found that some of the initial trouble I experienced while using tactics stemmed from my own lack of knowledge of how the system works).
But even if all of the above were perfect you'd still find yourself in situations when pause is necessary.

I imagine your main issue with pausing is that it's not realistic and takes you out of the moment - after all, you don't read about Aragorn or Drizzt pausing in mid combat to consider their options or pop a healing potion (do you have a problem with healing potions as well, btw? ).
But consider this, these characters, as well as your character in DA:O are experienced combatants (if we treat them as real), as well as their companions. During a fight, at each moment, they are able to analyze the situation pretty much completely, taking into account the status of all their enemies as well as allies - they know who's the weak link, and who's in trouble; they know what attack is coming at them and how to best deflect or avoid it. More over they can even predict some of the things their enemies will do. They are also aware of the terrain and how to best take advantage of it. They do not however have to deal with things like arrows or spells flying through walls because they were launched before they got behind it, or missing a sword swing or an arrow shot even though their enemy is a 4 feet lumbering troll which has been frozen solid.

So pause is there to allow you to "do" all those things in the game.

Modifié par 2late2die, 03 janvier 2010 - 05:35 .

[Pocketgb]

No game can ever be perfect, but that should never shy a developer from attempting to do so.



Same thing could've been said of the AI and tactics in general. People were saying the same thing about NWN2, saying how the AI options were good enough as it is. Then low and behold, Tom K came around and blew off everyone's hats by having much more in-depth and fluid options for the AI.



Yes, there will still be situations where we will pause. Doesn't mean we can't narrow those situations, though.

[kaya08]

2late2die wrote...
.

Could the AI be better? Of course. I personally would also love to be able to queue up 3 or 4 actions. And of course tactics also needs to be more reliable (though I found that some of the initial trouble I experienced while using tactics stemmed from my own lack of knowledge of how the system works).
But even if all of the above were perfect you'd still find yourself in situations when pause is necessary.

First off the tactics are completely and utterly broken. I also had some trouble with tactics and a lack of knowledge (some tactics not working in a manner i expected them to). But sometimes allies just ignore very basic tactics. See my example above. These tactics work 99% of the time. But the time they don't work is in a tough fight that leads to a party wipe and a 2 hour trek back to the same point.

I don't think anyone would notice or care if the odd difficult fight required you to pause the game. Its just annoying that you have to pause it every 2 seconds in every single fight.

I don't know, you have to suspect that they knew the tactics and AI we're kind of rubbish when they released it, its a pity they didn't give better tools to the player as a work around (action queing).

Modifié par kaya08, 03 janvier 2010 - 05:48 .

[Leon Zweihander]

For those that hate pausing please understand that those of us who are fans of this type of gameplay know exactly the reason why you hate it (breaks game immersion by pausing between battles). But you need to realize one important fact about this game: "Pause and play is the core of the system", similar to Bioware's earliest games since Baldur's Gate, from Neverwinter Nights to Knights of the Old Republic to Mass Effect, the ability to pause and assign commands is in there and encouraged. Granted the AI isn't the best but even on games that boast excellent AI it's not even impressive. Asking for the game to have no pausing is similar to me going to an Assassin's Creed forum and asking for a pause and play combat system since I don't like the way the game is played, it's just rude and more than a little insulting to the game designers.

[kaya08]

I like the pause and play system - but it was done far better in their previous games.

KotOR your allies AI was pretty decent you could leave them be to do their own thing most of the time, the odd tough fight you could queue up a few actions and leave them to it for the rest of the fight.
ME once you turned power usage to defensive it worked very well. It was easier to aim abilities and whatnot. Allies did the basics reasonably well. It had a nice pause vs. play balance.

This game isn't pause and play, its pause, character takes action, immediately pause again. Its pretty much turn based (which is fair enough, having to manually pause between each attack is kind of annoying though).

Modifié par kaya08, 03 janvier 2010 - 05:58 .

[karahasan]

Leon Zweihander wrote...

For those that hate pausing please understand that those of us who are fans of this type of gameplay know exactly the reason why you hate it (breaks game immersion by pausing between battles). But you need to realize one important fact about this game: "Pause and play is the core of the system", similar to Bioware's earliest games since Baldur's Gate, from Neverwinter Nights to Knights of the Old Republic to Mass Effect, the ability to pause and assign commands is in there and encouraged. Granted the AI isn't the best but even on games that boast excellent AI it's not even impressive. Asking for the game to have no pausing is similar to me going to an Assassin's Creed forum and asking for a pause and play combat system since I don't like the way the game is played, it's just rude and more than a little insulting to the game designers.

Agreed. Plus, you could, you know, not use it...

[kaya08]

You can't not use it, as has been explained numerous times.

[oblivionenss]

Ethan009 wrote...

Shidi wrote...

Ethan009: "I hate basketball because I can't kick the ball through goalposts instead of throwing it into a basket! Why couldn't they make it more like football instead?"
Everyone Else: "You know, maybe you should play rugby or something"
Ethan009: "I love the whole 'Play another game!' arguement. Of course its not like
James Naismith could have given us better rules or anything right *rolleyes*

...ah Shidi. How you fail to get the point. Must be nice to fail at life so hard.

Bioware implemented an AI system. One would think this is so one didn't have to pause every 2 seconds or am I wrong? 

Hm. For people who don't like button mashing you certainly like mashing the pause button.

Regardless this is getting ridculous. Ra forbid one wants the AI to be improved oh noes! <_<

Well you are welcome to try do a perfect AI, And if you suceed in making a perfect AI. then sell it, because no one has succeded before.
So just start coding and you shall see it isnt as easy as you seem to believe.

Dragon age has one of the best AI settings I seen ever in any game, where you are able to choose what the NPCs shall do and the choice to take away a whole lot of party management is there for the taken, it's just to set up some tactics, but nothing will ever bet the pause key and your own fantasy and tactics.

[RangerSG]

Sorry, I like pausing. And the game was designed to ALLOW pausing. I also find the argument that 'true' real time is no pausing rubbish, since single player RTS games typically ALLOW pausing to give orders or at least prep them anyway.

So to sit there and say there's something wrong with the AI because it doesn't do what you want it to, but is doing essentially what the designers DESIGNED it to do, is a poor argument. And very much akin to saying you wish you were playing a different game. If you want an RTS, play Command and Conquer on line with a friend. RPGs have almost always been either turn based or allow pausing.

Modifié par RangerSG, 03 janvier 2010 - 06:52 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ethan009 wrote...
...ah Shidi. How you fail to get the point. Must be nice to fail at life so hard.

Bioware implemented an AI system. One would think this is so one didn't have to pause every 2 seconds or am I wrong?

You're wrong.  The manual specifically tells you that you'll need to pause regularly on any difficulty level other than Easy.  The developers mentioned many times before the game was even released that the only thing you'd accomplish by not pausing was dying a lot.

The requirement to pause isn't news, nor is it any sort of failure on BioWare's part.

[Grommash94]

Could BioWare have made better AI? Sure. But where is the fun in that....pausing allows you to control your characters actions yourselves.