258 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

Dwallz wrote...

ragegt dont you know screen shot pic of the game is that just for pc only because i have a ps3

Sorry Dwallz, you lost me here. Where did I mention screenies in this thread? And just Rage does it.

I am really curious to know what makes a scripted behavior be called Artificial Intelligence.

[oblivionenss]

RageGT wrote...


I am really curious to know what makes a scripted behavior be called Artificial Intelligence.

It is pretty much all there is about AI at this time, or atleast a big part of it are just scripted behavior, for an example theenemy is getting shot at = they take cover = Scripted behavior

[bas273]

JackFuzz wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

JackFuzz wrote...
but still bullet time instead of a flat out god mode pause would be sooo much better while preserving the moment.

Seriously, play the PC version on Nightmare and tell me that pausing is God Mode.

Tirigon approves +17

Pausing on nightmare means pausing every 1.2 seconds... which destroys, utterly destroys the heat of combat.

And again, you present something as a fact while IT IS YOUR OPINION. Do not make such statements when you've never even played on Nightmare.

I've completed the game five times on Nightmare and I can tell you, that does not mean you have to pause every 1.2 seconds. I pause 2-3 times every battle and that's it. Most of the time I select talents/items in real-time since pausing is not really necessary.

But this thread has reached 7 pages that's... hard to believe.

Modifié par bas273, 03 janvier 2010 - 07:27 .

[AtreiyaN7]

No, I believe this thread is dumb. Pausing is the equivalent of going turn-based when you want to. The real-time aspect means you can just whale on enemies without wasting time if your current fight is some simple skirmish requiring no strategy. The DA:O system gives you much more flexibility and allows you to switch tactics on the fly.

[bas273]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

No, I believe this thread is dumb. Pausing is the equivalent of going turn-based when you want to. The real-time aspect means you can just whale on enemies without wasting time if your current fight is some simple skirmish requiring no strategy. The DA:O system gives you much more flexibility and allows you to switch tactics on the fly.

Exactly.
Pausing is optional, you don't have to use it. If you don't like it, go ahead and buy Oblivion but don't start a rant here on this forum.
Take the Total War series for example. You can play Turn-Based on the world-map or fight Real-Time battles. Or you can do both. It's your choice and people love it.

So according to JackFuzz, pausing is dumb. Why?
- You've admitted defeat when you use the pause button Yeah right. So I've admitted defeat when I'm soloing on Nightmare difficulty and use the pause button to select some talents in the battle with Jarvia?
- It is some sort of god mode, you may as well spam 1000 healing potions Wow great comparison. Playing on easy is more a god mode than playing on nightmare and using the pause button every once in a while.
- Pausing means the situation was so overwhelming that you were forced to pause Obviously you haven't played the game on Nightmare or you don't know how to make good use of the pause button. 99% of the time I use the pause button to set up tactics. And if the situation was overwhelming and you use the pause button to select some health potions for all your party members, that does not mean you've admitted defeat! It means you're not giving up and continue fighting. It's the very opposite of defeat. It means you show courage and instead of reloading you continue the fight, and I've had battles that lasted more than 20 minutes.
- Pausing is dumb. It's either real-time or turn-based. There's no middle-ground. Why? Is there a rule somewhere that says videogames must be real-time or turn-based? Or because you say so? 
All these statements are presented as facts but they are not. These are opinions, opinions that I do not share.

- A.I. is broken  Agreed. The A.I. isn't perfect. The Advanced Tactics mod solves many problems though.

Modifié par bas273, 03 janvier 2010 - 07:39 .

[RoudyRogue]

I think pausing in this type of game is completely necessary, like you said, and because of that, I don't really mind it. I would prefer a real time or turn based battle setup if the game was single player/single character. But because this game practically forces you to control four characters in battle in order to win, pausing becomes a necessity. For me I think of it as one mind one character. Pausing allows me to have four minds for my four characters.

[Leon Zweihander]

bas273 wrote...

But this thread has reached 7 pages that's... hard to believe.

The FPS players that can't be bothered to wait 5 seconds wants the game to be a run 'n gun going pew pew pew instant win while the tactical rpg players try to explain that it's not that kind of game.  Then the FPS players go wtf mate I want it my way and ignore what's in front of them while more rpg players try to explain the game again.  It's a vicious, neverending cycle.

Modifié par Leon Zweihander, 03 janvier 2010 - 07:38 .

[bas273]

Leon Zweihander wrote...

bas273 wrote...

But this thread has reached 7 pages that's... hard to believe.

The FPS players that can't be bothered to wait 5 seconds wants the game to be a run 'n gun going pew pew pew instant win while the tactical rpg players try to explain that it's not that kind of game.  Then the FPS players go wtf mate I want it my way and ignore what's in front of them while more rpg players try to explain the game again.  It's a vicious, neverending cycle.

I guess so Exactly the same as with Fallout 3. Many people who played that game were complaining that combat wasn't the same as in Call of Duty 4/5 etc. and that they hated all the dialogues and stats. I've played Oblivion and Fallout 3 and I think both games are great. Not as good as Dragon Age though

[Cybercat999]

Tirigon wrote...

And I love you all, especially however Ethan and Cybercat. Cybercat more, though. His / her avatar is hotter.

Its *her* and I love this AV too, she is my best (and only) warrior girl, made especially for getting Warden Commander achivement. Alistair never had a chance.

[KariTR]

True story. When Baldur's Gate first came out I was the first among my friends to complete the game, so along with all the ribbing that entailed (a skellie playing at their PC was presented to me as an achievement trophy to sit on my desk) I was sometimes asked for advice on how to approach a tough fight etc. One night in the pub when we were discussing tactics a friend mentioned pausing and I genuinally had no idea what he was talking about. I played all of BG completely oblivious to the fact I could stop time with my space-bar.



Anyway Jack, youve found a way to circumnavigate the need for a pause button in DA:O which speaks volumes about the game's versatility - there is no set way, no "proper" way to play through the game. Good for you and good for Bioware. Now stop being so competitive with yourself and enjoy playing however you choose to play, not using pause does not make you dumb.

[X2-Elijah]

On the whole, I agree that the "Pause the game and still issue orders & tactics" is not a good game method.. The way I see it, a pause is a pause - both for you and the computer. If you pause only your opposition, well, it's pretty much the same as a toggled Cone of cold on the game with no cooldown and time limit.. Unfair.

[Pocketgb]

There are a few stalling arguments I'm seeing here:

"It's fine stop whining": a boomerang stance, since I can just say "it's not fine" and it holds just as much merit. Essentially it's just a prettier looking version of just saying "NO U" back and forth.
"Don't like it don't use it": completely ignores the content of another's argument. Can also be used to defend anything, like quite literally.
"Play another game": similar to "don't like don't use", it implies that there is no problem.

It's different when you say these and then explain why you feel the statement is most accurate, however.

RangerSG wrote...

Sorry, I like pausing. And the game was designed to ALLOW pausing. I also find the argument that 'true' real time is no pausing rubbish, since single player RTS games typically ALLOW pausing to give orders or at least prep them anyway.

Where's my "tactical pause" in Diablo? In Guild Wars? Dawn of War 2 campaign (especially co-op)?

RangerSG wrote...

So to sit there and say there's something wrong with the AI because it doesn't do what you want it to, but is doing essentially what the designers DESIGNED it to do, is a poor argument. And very much akin to saying you wish you were playing a different game. If you want an RTS, play Command and Conquer on line with a friend. RPGs have almost always been either turn based or allow pausing.

That would mean that the tactics system was actually not implemented to provide a more flowing feel to the combat, but to just have the player switch characters less. There's very little the tactics system allows you to order your characters to do, even less without a mod giving you automatically giving you 25 of them.

When word of "tactics" came around to me, I thought "sweet, it sounds like the awesomeness of GW's AI partners mixed a bit with FF12s tactics system". Super awesome. Unfortunately, this is completely not the case. The lack-of-depth of tactics customization proves this.

You're right that we should find another game to play, though. This is just one of many concerns revolving around the overall combat in the game. It's not a problem for those who came to this game expecting (and receiving) the story-driven direction of the game.

[Keviant]

Lets' face it, we have a lot of damned good reasons why we use the pause :
1 : Screen shots, Scenic and "Damn, that decapitation looks cool." Moments.
2 : Difficult challenges
3 : Planning movement of companions since the Tactics AI is sometimes screwy
4 : It's given as a game play option.
5 : And many more.
Sides, Pausing IS Optional. People who are really used to games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and many more games that have the pause game play have not many problems playing without it now. In other words, don't use pause or shut up and don't play.Your the reason why Normal Mode is getting easier.

Modifié par Keviant, 03 janvier 2010 - 08:18 .

[Euphrati]

Hahhaa.

[UBER GEEKZILLA]

um unlike sad excuses for rpgs(diablo, more like diableh) dragon age takes skill and timing thinking balancing.

the pausing is apart of this, it allows u to plan battels and use resources and attacks at the right moment,,plus when im in an epic battle i sometimes pause so i can marvel at the excitment of battle

[II Sl4sh3r II]

Don't forget schweeeeet screenshots o_O

[DragonRageGT]

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

um unlike sad excuses for rpgs(diablo, more like diableh) dragon age takes skill and timing thinking balancing.
the pausing is apart of this, it allows u to plan battels and use resources and attacks at the right moment,,plus when im in an epic battle i sometimes pause so i can marvel at the excitment of battle

Hey, don't bad mouth gud ol' Diablo! It is the game that started it all. Baldur's Gate would never happen if Diablo hadn't come before it and I remember reading BW thanks to Blizzard for it. The Baal spawn thing was a derivative of Diablo's Cain storytelling and the prime brothers surely made an impression.

Now, after 3 full runs (Hard/NMx2) and with 3 more ongoing in NM, I am pretty sure I can do an easy run with no pausing whatsoever. Not even for phone or bathroom break... I'd let them playing and they'd kick ass! If people don't want pausing, just don't do it! ... Let's face it, calling it "dumb" is a poor excuse for skipping L2P!

[SleeplessInSigil]

Well, since that other JRPG thread is going on, we might as well consider Final Fantasy XIII's battle system, which appears to be a nice combination of a turn-based and real-time mechanics. Here's a video: http://zoome.jp/violet/diary/185

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 03 janvier 2010 - 09:08 .

[Spartansfan8888]

The pauses actually even you out with the AI. As a computer, it can instantaneously tell all of its troops what to do and syncronize these orders for effective attacks. As a person, you can control one person at a time and loosely rely on tactics for the others. By having the tactical pauses you can syncronize your attacks as well as the AI can, such as cone of cold three people, pause, and assign your other party members an enemy to shatter... 3 syncronized kills that the AI could perform on you but you couldn't perform on the AI without sufficient pause time to organize

[Pocketgb]

The AI doesn't recognize what "friendly fire" means, diverts their initial attention the enemies with the heaviest armor, and will attack anyone that makes fun of their mom (taunting). It does not take very much to put the player on the same level of intellect as that of the AI.

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

um unlike sad excuses for rpgs(diablo, more like diableh) dragon age takes skill and timing thinking balancing.

I've had to put in far more effort into Diablo than I ever have had to do for DA. Granted my first playthrough I kept getting repeatedly wrecked even on Easy. Rerolled my character, changed my party composition up a bit, and I breezed through on Hard, then switched to Nightmare.

So, I may have to beg to differ.

[Cybercat999]

Ethan009 wrote...

Also LOL I did have to actually plan out my strategy for Star Ocean 3 post endgame battles more than DA getting raped by Gabriel Celestia 5 times in a row is not fun :"( And that's exactly what it was...pure rape. On freakin normal mode T_T How people fight him on Galaxy I'll never understand. 1 million HP GTFO GC!

;_; Oh god just thinking about that is making me depressed. And strangely I now want to play SO3. >_<

LOL at all the folks that think action rpgs don't take stragety LOL!

Gc: LIGHTING FEATHER

*instant KO for all my stupid AI teammates running towards him and me left with like 1 HP*

Me: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

GC: LIGHTING FEATHER

ME: NOT AGAIN! *wipeout*

Took me about 3 tries to realize that move was blockable if my blasted teammates and I stood the heck STILL!

I hope your parents know that you play games rated above your age.