116 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyingSquirrel]

Eryri wrote...

Voted. Surprised more people didn't think Kasumi was Renegade - she is a professional thief after all. Perhaps if ME used D&D alignments she'd be more Chaotic Neutral.

Is "thief with a heart of gold" an accepted cliche?

If so, Kasumi is it - she's a criminal, yes, but all indications are that she does it more for the thrill than for self-enrichment, and that she doesn't employ particularly violent methods in her heists (she talks about knocking guards unconscious but never about killing or wounding anybody). Her story about rescuing a girl from slavers also shows that she can be altruistic, and her dialogue in ME2 is usually empathetic towards the rest of the crew.

[AxStapleton]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Voted. Surprised more people didn't think Kasumi was Renegade - she is a professional thief after all. Perhaps if ME used D&D alignments she'd be more Chaotic Neutral.

Is "thief with a heart of gold" an accepted cliche?

If so, Kasumi is it - she's a criminal, yes, but all indications are that she does it more for the thrill than for self-enrichment, and that she doesn't employ particularly violent methods in her heists (she talks about knocking guards unconscious but never about killing or wounding anybody). Her story about rescuing a girl from slavers also shows that she can be altruistic, and her dialogue in ME2 is usually empathetic towards the rest of the crew.

I put her Neutral (slightly more Renegade) because although she certainly isn't ruthless, it's obvious she doesn't like playing by the rules.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Who's voting Ashley as Renegade? She's a very by the books soldier, who's heavily against Cerberus. She's a Paragon.

Probably the anti-alien bias and her dialogue during a couple of the "big decisions" in ME1 - she advocates pretty strongly for killing the rachni queen and holding the Alliance forces back at the Citadel, IIRC. Though I'm not sure what she says if Wrex is there too, since he also tends to get those kinds of lines - I can't remember if I ever had both of them with me at once for either of those sequences.

[Restrider]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Good thread OP. I'm also glad you kept the polls simple. No clutter, no frivolous options, just straightforward. I commend you.

At your service...

[FlyingSquirrel]

Han Shot First wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Who's voting Ashley as Renegade? She's a very by the books soldier, who's heavily against Cerberus. She's a Paragon.

That's why she supports killing the Rachni Queen and letting the Council die?

That's why I voted her renegade. She leans renegade on two of the biggest renegade decisions in series.

It's interesting how BW seems to have "programmed" those sequences.

For the Council decision, it seems like Kaidan always gets the paragon line if he's there - I once had him and Liara with me, and Liara cautioned me about high human casualties or something while Kaidan advocated saving the Council. I know I've seen Garrus take either side - I think if Kaidan or Liara is there, he says to "hold back for reinforcements," while if the other squadmate takes the renegade side, he'll chime in with the "this is bigger than humanity" argument. I think the same may be true for Tali.

I don't know if I ever had Ashley/Wrex or Garrus/Tali as the final combination - I'm assuming one of them gets the paragon lines, and I'd be curious to see who it is.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I almost think we need a paragon-renegade "compass" along the lines of the politicalcompass.org test, that would measure along two dimensions: a "principled vs. expedient" axis that would be primarily about tactics and attitude, and a "unilateralist vs. inclusive" axis that's more about relationships with other species and making peace with former enemies. Many of the characters don't necessarily fall on the same side of each axis.

For example, Ashley is probably more on the principled end in terms of tactics (I don't see her letting the workers die on Zaeed's mission, executing Shiala, or leaving David at the end of Project Overlord), but she's more unilateralist when it comes to politics. Garrus, on the other hand, probably tends moderately towards the expedient side on tactics and moderately towards the inclusive side on politics. When we first meet Jack, she's on the expedient side in tactics and just hates the universe in general, so she would be kind of neutral/apathetic about the political side.

Liara, IMO, turns fairly expedient (Renegade) in tactics in ME2 and ME3, but remains receptive to galactic, cross-species alliances throughout the series. I'm a little surprised to see such a heavy Paragon vote for Liara, as I'd place her as neutral or Renegade once she becomes an information broker.

[M Hedonist]

James is too stupid to be Paragon or Renegade.

[M Hedonist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

I don't know if I ever had Ashley/Wrex or Garrus/Tali as the final combination - I'm assuming one of them gets the paragon lines, and I'd be curious to see who it is.

With Tali/Garrus, Tali advocates freeing the Rachni Queen and letting the Council die, while Garrus does the opposite.

At the end of ME, what your squadmates say regarding the Council is dependent on which squadmates you took with you. You will always have one squadmate advocating to save the Council and one who will advocate letting the Council die.
I'm not sure whether it's the same with the Rachni Queen, though.

Edit: Nvm, FlyingSquirrel already explained that in a previous post.

Modifié par Sauruz, 05 novembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[Restrider]

I like your idea FlyingSquirrel about the more refinded polls.
Maybe I'll start these, after finishing this initial survey.

[Restrider]

Vote---

[Restrider]

Page 4... this is an outrage!

[Humakt83]

No Admiral Hackett? Matriarch Benezia? Blasto?

[Restrider]

Humakt83 wrote...

No Admiral Hackett? Matriarch Benezia? Blasto?

I was thinking about Hackett, but we nearly had no exposure to him other than briefings and debriefings.
Matriach Benezia had a few lines and would be rated mostly paragon I guess (ignoring indoctrination) and Blasto is just a giant supid jellyfish.
/troll

[Restrider]

bumped for the N7 day!
Vote, guys/gals. In a few days I will compile a nice overview of the results and maybe start a more refined version of polls.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

I almost think we need a paragon-renegade "compass" along the lines of the politicalcompass.org test, that would measure along two dimensions: a "principled vs. expedient" axis that would be primarily about tactics and attitude, and a "unilateralist vs. inclusive" axis that's more about relationships with other species and making peace with former enemies. Many of the characters don't necessarily fall on the same side of each axis.

For example, Ashley is probably more on the principled end in terms of tactics (I don't see her letting the workers die on Zaeed's mission, executing Shiala, or leaving David at the end of Project Overlord), but she's more unilateralist when it comes to politics. Garrus, on the other hand, probably tends moderately towards the expedient side on tactics and moderately towards the inclusive side on politics. When we first meet Jack, she's on the expedient side in tactics and just hates the universe in general, so she would be kind of neutral/apathetic about the political side.

Liara, IMO, turns fairly expedient (Renegade) in tactics in ME2 and ME3, but remains receptive to galactic, cross-species alliances throughout the series. I'm a little surprised to see such a heavy Paragon vote for Liara, as I'd place her as neutral or Renegade once she becomes an information broker.

I picked Liara for Paragon because of a conversation with her with the time capsule. Paragade Shepard and Renegon Shepard -- asked her to be honest. "Shepard made decisions, though not always what I would agree with." Paragon Shepard - Liara's review was glowing. The writers view Liara as paragon -- maybe a badass paragon at times, but paragon.

[Restrider]

Hi guys/gals:
I have added a poll for Aria!
And I'd like you to make suggestions for a more refined way to characterize people.
As stated above by another poster, a 2 dimensional approach would be most fitting, with paragon - renegade (as in "save people" vs "get the job done") and maybe lawful - ?. Post your ideas!

[Restrider]

Still too few votes to compile the results in a orderly, visually appealing fashion...

[Restrider]

A reminder of the new poll available and the other stuff.

[Restrider]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
results are out and I started a more refined version of polls. Please vote and discuss. Have fun!

[Davik Kang]

Good job on these polls, and nice presentation on the results too. The main one I'm surprised about was Kasumi as I said earlier in the thread. But it's nice to see how these have worked out.

Zaeed as the most Renegade makes sense to me. As long as you look at what Renegade and Pargaon actually mean, and not just R=Bad and P=good, then it makes sense.

For example, if you had Udina up there, I personally think he is very Paragon at times, but is also clearly a bad guy.

[Ice Cold J]

So, I JUST noticed and had to ask:

Why is EDI a "she" and Legion is an "it?"

Just rubs me the wrong way.

[Restrider]

Ice Cold J wrote...

So, I JUST noticed and had to ask:

Why is EDI a "she" and Legion is an "it?"

Just rubs me the wrong way.

I know, right?
EDI is considered a she, because she has:
- a female voice
- a platform showing secondary female genitalia (and not too small)
- was dubbed EDI by her creators and called "it" a "she", to which TIM said "it" is an "it" (well

Legion on the other hand may have what appears to be a male voice and platform, but EDI/Shepard/Tali refer to Legion as "it" throughout the series (with the exception of reaper-code Legion, who reaches self-awareness and sacrifices himself).

So, I am just using the personal pronoun for Legion that is used most in the trilogy...

[Ice Cold J]

Restrider wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

So, I JUST noticed and had to ask:

Why is EDI a "she" and Legion is an "it?"

Just rubs me the wrong way.

I know, right?
EDI is considered a she, because she has:
- a female voice
- a platform showing secondary female genitalia (and not too small)
- was dubbed EDI by her creators and called "it" a "she", to which TIM said "it" is an "it" (well

Legion on the other hand may have what appears to be a male voice and platform, but EDI/Shepard/Tali refer to Legion as "it" throughout the series (with the exception of reaper-code Legion, who reaches self-awareness and sacrifices himself).

So, I am just using the personal pronoun for Legion that is used most in the trilogy...

Fair enough. Thanks!

[Restrider]

No comments on the results?