So long as NPC's dont end up with stupid, descriptive, names like in JRPG's.
JRPG elements that could make a game like DA:O even better?
Débuté par
RetrOldSchool
, janv. 02 2010 09:36
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#27
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 12:30
karahasan
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First off, I do love JRPGs. Unfortuntely, I only have a Wii and a gaming PC, I have not played them as much recently.
My thoughts.
1. WILL cause character imbalance (good change it might make certain characters pointless due to the fact that character A has an epic move while character B's is pathetic). Good idea, but not advisable.
2. Would be good for one of the origin stories (Human Noble for example, could make use of that), but it should NOT be an element in the main story.
3. I thought they already have this
4. Not necessary for me. I might even make me more disappointed. For example, the presentation depicts Denerim as this huge place, but I can only explore a teeny tiny amount of it.
5. Also not necessary for me.
On a side note: surprised you love FFXII. A lot of JRPG players hated that game. Maybe because it plays more like a Western RPG.
My thoughts.
1. WILL cause character imbalance (good change it might make certain characters pointless due to the fact that character A has an epic move while character B's is pathetic). Good idea, but not advisable.
2. Would be good for one of the origin stories (Human Noble for example, could make use of that), but it should NOT be an element in the main story.
3. I thought they already have this
4. Not necessary for me. I might even make me more disappointed. For example, the presentation depicts Denerim as this huge place, but I can only explore a teeny tiny amount of it.
5. Also not necessary for me.
On a side note: surprised you love FFXII. A lot of JRPG players hated that game. Maybe because it plays more like a Western RPG.
Modifié par karahasan, 03 janvier 2010 - 12:33 .
#28
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 12:33
BECC4
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To the OP, I'll admit, I saw the title and cringed, I was ready to totally stomp on your post like an over-eager Shale let loose in a pen full of chickens ....... but then I read your post and actually, I think ur ideas are fair and could be used to improve the game, I like 4 and 5 particularly, but as with everything it would depend on how it was implemented and to what degree.
#29
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 12:36
thegreateski
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And random battles designed solely for the purpose of wasting your time, BLEH.AntiChri5 wrote...
So long as NPC's dont end up with stupid, descriptive, names like in JRPG's.
#30
Guest_MrHimuraChan_*
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 12:56
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At first i thought the OP was A JRPG Sephiroth-lover fanboy, but after reading the post... I think you have some very nice points!
Let's see:
1. More "special attacks", and special attacks that level.
hmmm, not "selectable attacks", but if you could perform crazier and flashier finishing moves as you get higher in levels, that would be nice. You know, get a feeling your character is becoming a better combatant (some spell finishing moves would be good too:wizard:)
2. "Returning" bad guys.
Yes, yes, yes. I LOVE these kinds of villains, more specially those like Revolver Ocelot from MGS: Snake eater. The kind who gets his/her arse beaten up so many times you end up liking them.
3. More less story focused locations.
I like this concept. A small farm-like town with little sidequests, maybe a mysterious cave (wich end up housing a small darkspawn outpost). But overall, that kind of place you end up going just to listen the nice music while you get dressed to college. (FFIX players will remember the Village of Dali here)
4. Better area presentation.
Hmmm, a small cutscene, something simple like just a camera panning down while the city's name is showed on the screen the first time you enter? Nice idea, i liked.
5. More NPC to NPC interaction.
Yes, definitely! Bioware could add some inter-party romance (i know it would be hard to make) for extra points.
Very solid points! I liked, Send them to Bioware
Let's see:
1. More "special attacks", and special attacks that level.
hmmm, not "selectable attacks", but if you could perform crazier and flashier finishing moves as you get higher in levels, that would be nice. You know, get a feeling your character is becoming a better combatant (some spell finishing moves would be good too:wizard:)
2. "Returning" bad guys.
Yes, yes, yes. I LOVE these kinds of villains, more specially those like Revolver Ocelot from MGS: Snake eater. The kind who gets his/her arse beaten up so many times you end up liking them.
3. More less story focused locations.
I like this concept. A small farm-like town with little sidequests, maybe a mysterious cave (wich end up housing a small darkspawn outpost). But overall, that kind of place you end up going just to listen the nice music while you get dressed to college. (FFIX players will remember the Village of Dali here)
4. Better area presentation.
Hmmm, a small cutscene, something simple like just a camera panning down while the city's name is showed on the screen the first time you enter? Nice idea, i liked.
5. More NPC to NPC interaction.
Yes, definitely! Bioware could add some inter-party romance (i know it would be hard to make) for extra points.
Very solid points! I liked, Send them to Bioware
Modifié par MrHimuraChan, 03 janvier 2010 - 01:44 .
#31
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 01:43
SleeplessInSigil
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On an average, as a whole, the JRGP scene is generally better than the American RPG scene.Zakath12 wrote...
SleeplessInSigil wrote...
mmm I love Japanese RPGs and find the stories and villains in them overall more interesting in general.
10 years ago, maybe. Today ? They pretty much all sucked this gen except Lost Odyssey. And FF13 doesn't look THAT good either, so...
How many top WRPGs do you know, anyway? Diablo-like pure hack-&-slash'ers don't really count, and the ones with any depth in character design and storylines can be counted on the fingers of these two hands, with a sizable percent being based on D&D in some shape or form.
More than 2/3rds of JRPGs never even make it over here, and most of those that do end up losing some of their substance in order to dumb them down for the American market, although a few of them do end up getting accurate fan-translations.
& FF13 doesn't look that good? Watch this in full-screen: http://zoome.jp/gaoneko/diary/73/
Sold a million on Day 1 in Japan and will probably nearly do the same over there.
Not necessarily saying that Dragon Age should adopt JRPG themes, though.
Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 03 janvier 2010 - 01:47 .
#32
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 01:44
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huh? like what? Are you talking about Black Mage etc.? You do realize that's more likely a result of American translation and even then definitely in only a few (mostly FF) games?AntiChri5 wrote...
So long as NPC's dont end up with stupid, descriptive, names like in JRPG's.
#33
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 02:12
Juggernawt
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JRPGs are DUMBED down garbage with daft characters, implausable stories and really idiotic implementations. Pretty graphics with half dressed, borderline jailbait, schoolgirls and massive phallic swords doesn't constitute a decent rpg experience.
#34
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 02:18
thegreateski
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Come one . . . who wants to play a RPG without a ridiculously huge sword?Juggernawt wrote...
massive phallic swords doesn't constitute a decent rpg experience.
No one that's who.
#35
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 02:24
SleeplessInSigil
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Final Fantasy (along with its blatant clones) alone does not represent all JRPGs, though, which from your second sentence appears to be the only series you seem to know about.Juggernawt wrote...
JRPGs are DUMBED down garbage with daft characters, implausable stories and really idiotic implementations. Pretty graphics with half dressed, borderline jailbait, schoolgirls and massive phallic swords doesn't constitute a decent rpg experience.
Try Chrono Trigger, Bahamut Lagoon, Breath of Fire 2, Live A Live, Rudra no Hihou, the Secret of Mana series (one of which did the "origins" thing before any WRPG) Star Ocean, or Tales of Phantasia. Most of which are only available in English as best-effort fan-translations.
but let's first hear your nominations for the WRPGs that aren't "dumbed-down"
(I can only think of PS:T, BG2, and some Ultimas right now)
Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 03 janvier 2010 - 06:09 .
#36
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 02:25
the_one_54321
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Ethan009 wrote...
Yes the ultimate clash of WRPG and JRPG with the strong points of both and the weakness of neither would be freakin EPIC.
Sadly no one seems to wanna work togetherIts all I'm better than YOUS!
BAH!
very well put. both types of games have fantastic aspects that make them incredibly fun.
it's unfortunate that brain dead folks like those above will also insist that anyone who like different things than they do is an idiot or a fan boy. remarkable how very similar they sound to folks who only play shooters and action games when talking about not liking RPGs.
#37
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 02:26
SleeplessInSigil
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yeah, they're pretty popular, almost as much as OOOoHh DRAGONS, and ORCS! and ELVENSES.thegreateski wrote...
Come one . . . who wants to play a RPG without a ridiculously huge sword?Juggernawt wrote...
massive phallic swords doesn't constitute a decent rpg experience.
No one that's who.
Both markets and genres have their clichés and stereotypes.
Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 03 janvier 2010 - 04:30 .
#38
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 03:01
Orogun01
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1. Really bad idea, those attacks lose their charm after you use them for the 100th time plus in a WRPG they will make you lose view of the battlefield. Wouldn't mind some upgrades for skills and some small visual effects to go with them.
2. For this point I think much of the storytelling formula of BW would have to change. So far they have focused on situations that allow you to roleplay, instead of an enmity with the main villain. The deconstruction of the BW stories comes down to = Bad guy wants something that threatens the (world, universe, empire) Good guy chases after him throughout the whole story, and then final confrontation.
3. Exploration isn't just a JRPG element, a lot of WRPGs have exploration. The only thing I would add is that since JRPG graphics are usually over the top the environment is memorable.
4. Same as above
5. Again kind of hard due to the Bioware formula. NPC in BW games usually encounter the PC while having some sort of internal struggle with their past and is through the actions of the PC that it will come to a resolution. Through this interaction is that the PC will shape the NPC's character and since so far BW's games NPC to NPC interactions are based on the characters core traits, it would be extensive making all those extras interactions regarding different situations to foresee every way that the PC may choose to shape their NPC's ideals.
2. For this point I think much of the storytelling formula of BW would have to change. So far they have focused on situations that allow you to roleplay, instead of an enmity with the main villain. The deconstruction of the BW stories comes down to = Bad guy wants something that threatens the (world, universe, empire) Good guy chases after him throughout the whole story, and then final confrontation.
3. Exploration isn't just a JRPG element, a lot of WRPGs have exploration. The only thing I would add is that since JRPG graphics are usually over the top the environment is memorable.
4. Same as above
5. Again kind of hard due to the Bioware formula. NPC in BW games usually encounter the PC while having some sort of internal struggle with their past and is through the actions of the PC that it will come to a resolution. Through this interaction is that the PC will shape the NPC's character and since so far BW's games NPC to NPC interactions are based on the characters core traits, it would be extensive making all those extras interactions regarding different situations to foresee every way that the PC may choose to shape their NPC's ideals.
#39
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 03:06
aznsoisauce
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SleeplessInSigil wrote...
& FF13 doesn't look that good? Watch this in full-screen: http://zoome.jp/gaoneko/diary/73/
Sold a million on Day 1 in Japan and will probably nearly do the same over there.
It's sales have plummeted since its release and players are complaining it's more linear than a piece of string.
However, if you're referring to the game's graphics, then yes. It looks gorgeous.
...needless to say, I have to hooked to the jrpg market since I was 10 so of course I'll be sucked into buying such a useless game. *shakes fist at squeenix*
OP, I think you made excellent points and I'm glad I took the time to read your post.
#40
Guest_Ethan009_*
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 03:07
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Wait FF13 is more linear than 12?!?
:/
Aw...
:/
Aw...
#41
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 03:18
thegreateski
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The hell is an Elvenses?SleeplessInSigil wrote...
yeah, they're pretty popular, almost as much as OOOoHh DRAGONS, and ORCS! and ELVENSES.thegreateski wrote...
Come one . . . who wants to play a RPG without a ridiculously huge sword?Juggernawt wrote...
massive phallic swords doesn't constitute a decent rpg experience.
No one that's who.
#42
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 05:19
SleeplessInSigil
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Think of it as buying a very long movie.aznsoisauce wrote...
It's sales have plummeted since its release and players are complaining it's more linear than a piece of string.
However, if you're referring to the game's graphics, then yes. It looks gorgeous.
...needless to say, I have to hooked to the jrpg market since I was 10 so of course I'll be sucked into buying such a useless game. *shakes fist at squeenix*
Though the linearity abates once you're several hours into the game. Even so it may not be such a bad thing, as long as an intriguing story is presented throughout that linearity.
#43
Guest_Ethan009_*
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 05:22
Guest_Ethan009_*
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SleeplessInSigil wrote...
Think of it as buying a very long movie.aznsoisauce wrote...
It's sales have plummeted since its release and players are complaining it's more linear than a piece of string.
However, if you're referring to the game's graphics, then yes. It looks gorgeous.
...needless to say, I have to hooked to the jrpg market since I was 10 so of course I'll be sucked into buying such a useless game. *shakes fist at squeenix*
Though the linearity abates once you're several hours into the game. Even so it may not be such a bad thing, as long as an intriguing story is presented throughout that linearity.
You played it? Storyline though? Snow strikes me as a pedobear so at least I'll dig that part
Ah Snow. Finally a manly looking lead even if he is a pedobear.
#44
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 05:41
Vicious
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ROFL who mentioned Breath Of Fire as a jrpg example? That's one of the crappiest games you'll never play.
Anyways... I like that they are different. Gives people something to argue about. Western styles tend to win in the end, regardless. Just ask Resident Evil.
Anyways... I like that they are different. Gives people something to argue about. Western styles tend to win in the end, regardless. Just ask Resident Evil.
#45
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 06:00
UBER GEEKZILLA
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u kiddin me biowares rpgs destroy jrpgs by far
and if dragon age was more like a jrpg that would stink
i woulnt want to go up to every single wolf and darkspawn grunt one at a time to see a long cutscene battle where u and the one enemy are standing 50 meters in middle of no where just to take turns beating eachother up by pressing the a button numerous times
and i dont want the main protaginist to be a spiky haird guy that looks like a girl with large feet and planet sized eyes prancing around whining that he cant fufill his destiny and meet some random girl who "SUPRISE" "SUPRISE' is a princess
biowares games are fine the way they are
and if dragon age was more like a jrpg that would stink
i woulnt want to go up to every single wolf and darkspawn grunt one at a time to see a long cutscene battle where u and the one enemy are standing 50 meters in middle of no where just to take turns beating eachother up by pressing the a button numerous times
and i dont want the main protaginist to be a spiky haird guy that looks like a girl with large feet and planet sized eyes prancing around whining that he cant fufill his destiny and meet some random girl who "SUPRISE" "SUPRISE' is a princess
biowares games are fine the way they are
#46
Guest_Ethan009_*
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 06:19
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:/ Me thinks most people dissing jrpgs haven't played ones either than final fantasy.
WRPGs aren't all that either. Just like JRPGs theres ones that are brilliant and others that are completely made of fail and filled to the brim with ridiculous stereotypes and cliches. Why some of you lot seem to believe its limited to one or the other baffles me.
WRPGs aren't all that either. Just like JRPGs theres ones that are brilliant and others that are completely made of fail and filled to the brim with ridiculous stereotypes and cliches. Why some of you lot seem to believe its limited to one or the other baffles me.
#47
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 06:45
the_one_54321
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i get the feeling most of the posters here ranged from ages 12-20. it makes me feel kind of sad that i have participated...
#48
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 06:50
fairandbalancedfan
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the_one_54321 wrote...
i get the feeling most of the posters here ranged from ages 12-20. it makes me feel kind of sad that i have participated...
JRPG's and WRPG's have strong points and weak points. It doesn't help the fact that some people chose to express their sentiments in a poor manner.
#49
Guest_Bio-Boy 3000_*
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 07:00
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the_one_54321 wrote...
i get the feeling most of the posters here ranged from ages 12-20. it makes me feel kind of sad that i have participated...
Where was your vaunted wisdom to tell you otherwise?
#50
Posté 03 janvier 2010 - 07:03
the_one_54321
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Bio-Boy 3000 wrote...
Where was your vaunted wisdom to tell you otherwise?the_one_54321 wrote...
i get the feeling most of the posters here ranged from ages 12-20. it makes me feel kind of sad that i have participated...
it's not exactly fair to make fun of that vaunted wisdom when other folks really were vaunting it. sober folks, even!
