135 réponses à ce sujet

[hereticeyes]

posted by oldschool
3. More less story focused locations. This is a hard one to describe, but in JRPG's you have a greater sense of travelling over vast areas.

I disagree with this. Most battles in DA have a lot of lore associated with it, making each fight meaningful and fun.

It would have been less interesting to me if they expanded DA by 50%, with that extra 50% of game-time being kill X nameless blood mages in Tevinter, or X random knights in Orlais and X darkspawns in Kal-Sharok Thaig, without introducing local characters, or a compelling story that is the trademark of DA.

A vast world of filler, that's what World of Warcraft offers.

I thought old school JRPGs like final fantasy 6 and chrono trigger were fun, had a great story, great music, offered a great challenge, gameplay and replay value. I also liked Final Fantasy Tactics (great story!), Suikoden 1 and 2 on the original playstation.

Perhaps I am wrong, but the newer console RPGs, which includes newer JRPGs, have fancy graphics and a boring story made for kids + easy gameplay. That's what FF8 felt to me, with all the button mashing to increase spell damage, and I beat that one without wiping once.

And I couldn't finish oblivion either, a game that might fit your huge world with less story criteria.

Modifié par hereticeyes, 03 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

Ethan009 wrote...
You played it? Storyline though? Snow strikes me as a pedobear so at least I'll dig that part Ah Snow. Finally a manly looking lead even if he is a pedobear.

heh Lightning herself is manly enough. I've just seen bits of the playthrough videos on NicoNico.

Vicious wrote...

ROFL who mentioned Breath Of Fire as a jrpg example? That's one of the crappiest games you'll never play.

Breath of Fire 2, on the SNES, was good (for its time, if you prefer.) You must be thinking of the PlayStation port or something 

hereticeyes wrote...

A vast world of filler, that's what World of Warcraft offers.

+1

I can't stand Warcraft's pretend-lore.

[SleeplessInSigil]

Ethan009 wrote...

Ooh can you give me the link?

FF13 SPOILERS!!! 

 zoome.jp/libera/diary/197
 zoome.jp/violet/diary/184
 zoome.jp/violet/diary/185

FF13 SPOILERS!!!

Check your PM for more. The combat does look orgasmicaly hot.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 03 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

Ethan009 wrote...

And no matter what anyone says 99% of those JRPGs they hate have far, far better battle music than WRPGs... 

This. shall be forever written in the Eternal Book of Many Truths.

...SE blocked the first few cutscenes from being shown....

lol yeah they can't have too many spoilers floating around before March I guess.

[KariTR]

RampantBeaver wrote...

1* I enjoy the idea where abilities improve the more we use/practice them, it reminds me of a thing we call real life.

They do improve, you can hit harder at L15 than you can at L10 or L1.  And the attribute system is more versatile than a skill-by-use system. Imagine magic spells for example, some only come out occasionally as they are completely situational. If we had a skill-by-use system, these spells would be virtually useless. Same with any 4th tier talent really, we would get them so late we wouldnt have time to optimise them.
If youve ever played a skill-by-use MMO and watched players "practicing" their skills over and over in towns (often afk, using automated systems or jamming their keyboards) maybe you wouldnt have such a high opinion of that particular game system. Personally, I hate anything that is easily exploitable.

[KalosCast]

The Last Remnant tried to combine Western and Eastern RPG elements together to make a new experience.



Never heard of it? My point exactly.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Ethan009 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

The Last Remnant tried to combine Western and Eastern RPG elements together to make a new experience.

Never heard of it? My point exactly.

says who? I've heard of that game. Never played it but my friend was raving about it. It seems to have gotten mixed reviews as well. The most complaints seem to be loading screens the game "playing itself." I'm guess it has a tatics system similar to FF12? 

Not exactly. You have very little control of what happens during battles. Party members tend to do whatever the hell they please, you can only indicate the general direction, like ''cast some healing spell'' and ''use one of your damage spells'' without being able to specify which one. And the difficulty scaling is fairly poor.

Modifié par Spaghetti_Ninja, 03 janvier 2010 - 10:17 .

[KalosCast]

Ethan009 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

The Last Remnant tried to combine Western and Eastern RPG elements together to make a new experience.

Never heard of it? My point exactly.

says who? I've heard of that game. Never played it but my friend was raving about it. It seems to have gotten mixed reviews as well. The most complaints seem to be loading screens the game "playing itself." I'm guess it has a tatics system similar to FF12? 

Says the Dev team. The lead villain in particular was designed to appeal to American gamers. All in all it was a pretty bland game, though one of the main cast has one of the cooles last stand type scenes I've seen in a game.

[the_one_54321]

FFXII had the most intuitive combat system of any RPG so far. you could make that game handle combat almost completely on it's own, if you wanted to. or you could micromanage every single action, if you wanted to. anyone with any ability at all in playing RPGs said that game was almost too easy as a result of it's versatility in the combat interface.

[RetrOldSchool]

Thanks for reading and posting, a lot of good feedback!

Allow me to clarify though, 'cause I was misinterpreted with especially no 1 & 2, but also 3 (I'll update the original post as well, for any new readers )

1. As for special attacks, I dont suggest them to be like in JRPG's with 10 hit sword combos complete with flashes of lights and explosions. Instead I mean them to be more like the existing talents, but with some influence by the spell system. For example:
A 2h axe special attack that is a lunge and an axe swipe. The attack could work a little like cone of cold, though with a shorter but wider arc. That way you could direct your swipe attack.
After reading a lot of good feedback I realize that having the attacks level by usage could be bad, it would probably lead to you only using 3 party members over and over, since their attacks would be levelled. However, it would still be an option to be able to spend talent points on special attacks that you've already learned to make them more effective, reduce the cooldown etc. To really tailor make your warrior if you'd like. Or you could aim for the broader talents like the 2h tree.

2. As for returning bad guys, I dont intend them to be like a bad guy that you almost beat all the time, just to have them dash off when they should die every time. I like the general concept though of having a nemesis, that might show up 3-4 times over the course of the whole game. 
Sometimes it could be in battle, sometimes he/she might be a spectator or barking orders or framing the player, maybe even starting out as an ally ( a blue circle NPC tagging along in a dungeon, just to turn on the party and leave them in a life threating situation after getting what he/she wanted all along).

3. As for more non-story specific locations, I dont mean an open world like Fallout 3 or Oblivion. I marely mean like Lothering. You can go right through Lothering without picking up Sten or Leliana, or you can take your time and do all the sidequests. I just wish more like that, even after gaining access to the world map. 
For example a mountain pass that you need to go through to get to Denerim with a small village outside or the outskirts of the Brecilian forest, maybe complete with a small human village (maybe even the village that the humans you encounter in the Dalish origin lives).

[Silensfurtim]

after all whats been said, I think its not a good idea to implement JRPG elements to WRPGs.



imagine if this happens, then the stupid Sony/JRPG fanboys would go.. "OMG OMG Bioware copied FF's gameplay! OMG OMG! WRPGs suck!"



screw that

[astrallite]

Silensfurtim wrote...

after all whats been said, I think its not a good idea to implement JRPG elements to WRPGs.

imagine if this happens, then the stupid Sony/JRPG fanboys would go.. "OMG OMG Bioware copied FF's gameplay! OMG OMG! WRPGs suck!"

screw that

How many people do you know spend time to meticulously categorize games? No one I know does.

[the_one_54321]

i would like to see bioware do a game in the style of JRPG. just to see the kinds of characters they came up with. they make a lot of great characters already. if they didnt have to fit the characters into a super variable game, that usually has a main PC that can be any sex, mind set, morality, sexual preference, or even multiple races, then just how much more could to do with the NPCs, the motivations, the directions, the plot choices, the plot twists, the plot intricacies, and so on and so on?



this is the real difference between JRPGs and WRPGs. WRPGs insist on customizing everything based on what the player wants to play. JRPGs fully craft a story for the player to interact in, and then the player has to fit themselves to that story.

[Silensfurtim]

astrallite wrote...

How many people do you know spend time to meticulously categorize games? No one I know does.

in my 25 years of playing PnP and CRPGs?  plenty.

none of them are kiddie gamers like nowadays.

[KariTR]

RetrOldSchool wrote...

Thanks for reading and posting, a lot of good feedback!

Allow me to clarify though, 'cause I was misinterpreted with especially no 1 & 2, but also 3 (I'll update the original post as well, for any new readers )

1. As for special attacks, I dont suggest them to be like in JRPG's with 10 hit sword combos complete with flashes of lights and explosions. Instead I mean them to be more like the existing talents, but with some influence by the spell system. For example:
A 2h axe special attack that is a lunge and an axe swipe. The attack could work a little like cone of cold, though with a shorter but wider arc. That way you could direct your swipe attack.
After reading a lot of good feedback I realize that having the attacks level by usage could be bad, it would probably lead to you only using 3 party members over and over, since their attacks would be levelled. However, it would still be an option to be able to spend talent points on special attacks that you've already learned to make them more effective, reduce the cooldown etc. To really tailor make your warrior if you'd like. Or you could aim for the broader talents like the 2h tree.

Like Wynne's Plot Talent? I would have liked to see more of those, or at least one for each companion. I am sure the devs won't stop at one though, perhaps we will see more in an expansion or DLC.

[the_one_54321]

Silensfurtim wrote...

astrallite wrote...
How many people do you know spend time to meticulously categorize games? No one I know does.

in my 25 years of playing PnP and CRPGs?  plenty.

none of them are kiddie gamers like nowadays.

you've got about a decade on me in terms of experience, but i think 15 years of PnP and CRPGs is still pretty good. personally, i think they could mix wiell. and i tend to not listen when fan boys are talking. i love boty kinds of RPGs, and i think each does what it does very well. people need to stop choosing sides and just play the games that are fun and appreciate what makes different games fun.

[amrose2]

JRPGs are like introductions, and then you find the CRPGs like Dragon Age, Neverwinter, etc.. and realize what a true RPG is like. After that you find out that JRPGS are just rehashed recycled storylines/battle systems and grindfests that are incredibly boring. The last original JRPG you'll ever play is your very first one. After that... its just the same thing with different pixels.

[RetrOldSchool]

Silensfurtim wrote...

after all whats been said, I think its not a good idea to implement JRPG elements to WRPGs.

imagine if this happens, then the stupid Sony/JRPG fanboys would go.. "OMG OMG Bioware copied FF's gameplay! OMG OMG! WRPGs suck!"

screw that

I have to say that I dont think any of the elements in my original post would be something even the most hardened fan boy could consider being copied from JRPG's, its not like a 5 second cinematic view of Denerim to establish the location the first time would warrant an outcry like that. 

The elements Im talking about are already in use in some extent in some WRPG's, but they are more common in JRPG's. But in order to use them the devs would of course have to take the general idea and tweak it to fit the game.

[Silensfurtim]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Silensfurtim wrote...

astrallite wrote...
How many people do you know spend time to meticulously categorize games? No one I know does.

in my 25 years of playing PnP and CRPGs?  plenty.

none of them are kiddie gamers like nowadays.

you've got about a decade on me in terms of experience, but i think 15 years of PnP and CRPGs is still pretty good. personally, i think they could mix wiell. and i tend to not listen when fan boys are talking. i love boty kinds of RPGs, and i think each does what it does very well. people need to stop choosing sides and just play the games that are fun and appreciate what makes different games fun.

good for you. some people still want the old-school feel. old-school role-playing and adventuring. and non of the anime crap.